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| Thread: Haggash baned |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted December 08, 2008 11:03 AM |
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Quote:
That is all very well and you may be correct concerning the numbers. So perhaps Haggash should only be banned as a main hero. But I think you get the idea of what Jinxer already explained to us. Centaurs acting first, etc. nobody wants to ban Haggash because of her creeping army but because of her ridicolous initiative bonus.
No i dont get his main idea. Do you know how stupid games i see Sylvan vs other race. Battles end befor second race get turn. Are its balanced? Lets have more random factors. Lets sylvan be scared he will be not 1st again.
In real Haggash cant act befor academy after mini arts. Cant act befor Inferno most from games. Cant do so high dmg vs Haven. Fortres have his "ways" too. Necro op alot def and have dark! So why i need bother so much for one hero and few stupid losses.
Qestion is not if we need ban one hero or other for main. Its can both players decide. But are its good maps to ban heroes? its make game better? How i can see difference from 2 hereos if one from them is baned on map? Ban heroes Its simple wrong way for balance maps.
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted December 08, 2008 11:08 AM |
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Agree 100% with Elit, stop ban heroes on custom maps. Ibma or not. Maybe today hero is considered imbalanced, new tactics appear tomorrow, he is no more imbalanced again. If banned, how new tactics will appear ?
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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lord_nerevar
Hired Hero
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posted December 11, 2008 10:19 AM |
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Rain of arrows can be counter very easy : magic resistence ,Shield of the Dwarven Kings etc.,but Haggash...you dont have any counter against him.
So,stop talking about rain of arrows because is not overpower.
You dont need to ban heroes on maps ,we can make our own rules at the beggining of a game.If you dont want to play againt haggash or someonelse ,all you have to do is tell the opponent your rules.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 11, 2008 10:21 AM |
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It's not overpowered, it's broken. Though Haggash is probably worse.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 11, 2008 03:10 PM |
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Ok.. I will be completely honest here... part of the reason I ban these heroes and DONT let the 2 players decide.. is because some players will refuse to agree to not use these broken heroes! And for example in tournamnets like Ceasars... you have to play your opponent.. and if he refuses to agree to ban Haggash... then your stuck... And since I will NEVER EVER agree to letting such a silly hero in game.. whats the point in having her available. Just avoids arguments etc. Bottom line is.. if such broken heroes are available.. then some players will use them! They want that broken spoon fed win. Just ask Jorko... he is veteran.. and knows haggash is broken and silly.. yet since haggash was available he snapped her up and took advantage of her.
Too bad the editor wouldnt let us limit certain heroes to hero level.. Then we could include heroes like that for scouts and some of you players could have your spoon fed extra centuars so you could still have your training wheels. 
You people need to start learning how to be good at this game without using and abusing the broken parts of the game. Lets see if you CAN be good at the actual game.. and not just show your skills at exploiting the broken parts of game. There is a huge difference.
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted December 12, 2008 09:21 AM |
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Rain of arrow+frenzy it's not broken. It's powerful thing of cos, but entire game it's build on power things like - blood rage, vengeance, Armageddon+ignite, full dragon set, ring+staff combo, puppet, mini arts, training paladins, runes, war machines+flaming arrow, hnr, mentoring etc... If one player have, let's say, ring+staff combo, opponent must have something else to counter, or is bad player. Yes of cos sometime luck decide, still skill on first place. I have many games win vs rain of arrow+frenzy users, have game loosed with full dragon set, many games win vs ring+staff combo (inclusive vs top players). All apart look broken ... Somme people refuse to see all picture ... They ban on one map some hero, another ban arrmagedon, making a sophisticate set of rules, etc ... Heretics, no more 
To Jinxer - ban heroes on map have nothing to do with Ceasars. Ceasars must have clear set of rules, list of banned heroes, list of maps allowed to play etc. If you ban Haggash on your map this is not guarantee you not meet her in second match, then opponent choose map ... I think you just like to ban things ...
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 12, 2008 01:48 PM |
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Quote:
I think you just like to ban things ...
Not true at all.... I am just tired of losing a 5 hour game to silly stuff... I want my OPPONENTS skills and abilities and knowledge of the game to beat me. I dont want to out play my opponent TEN fOLD in every aspect of the game during all of creeping for 5 hours straight... then get to final battle and have 1 technicallity decide game. Removing Haggash... is on same line as Banning DV.. or Banning Instant Travel... any 1 celled organism can click instant travel and skip/jump over that huge stack instead if fighting them and earning there place in the middle.. or earning that relic.
There are just some aspects of game that give a person the ability to win games that they otherwise are not skilled enough to win.. or deserve to win based on how they have played... And its true there are LOTS of broken things in this game.. If I banned them ALL there wouldnt be a game left... But there are some OBVIOUS broken things that are TOP of list.. that by banning... doesnt make game unplayable.. just makes it Harder for the less skilled players Who are afraid to play on level ground with everyone else.. cause they are obviously lacking in true abilities in the game. They been riding with training wheels for tooooo long.
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted December 12, 2008 02:04 PM |
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Quote:
Ok.. I will be completely honest here... part of the reason I ban these heroes and DONT let the 2 players decide.. is because some players will refuse to agree to not use these broken heroes!
Look like cheating to me. You know ppl will not agree with your rules so you force them to play it from ban on map.
I'm advice ppl to stop play vs Jinxer on his maps. Lets he learn to play real game from normal maps and start love it 
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted December 12, 2008 02:16 PM |
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Instant travel it's not evil. It's not suitable for all maps, even on some UBI maps i seen instant travel off. Depend on design, concept of map. But in some cases can be good - random map, two exits heavily guarded by mags/ranged units combo. Stronghold and Haven will use medic tent + triple balista+flaming arrow to pass, Necro raise dead. For Sylvan is no way to pass fast this, only way it's to quick creep start zone, reach level 15 and we ready to fly Also player that breach the border guard have advantage anyway - he get experience from killing guard, no problems to get reinforcements and he can use scoots to take resources in new zone.
Another usage is to skip accusations like that - of cos you won your entrance to this zone was guarded by melee, mine by mags ...
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted December 12, 2008 02:17 PM |
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Love is in the aiiiiir~~~
Everywhere I look arround~
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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morgan_le_fey
Famous Hero
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posted January 02, 2009 03:04 AM |
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Its smart to take haggish.
morgan_le_fey
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newguy
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 04, 2009 03:58 AM |
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"Centaurs, Centaur Nomads and Centaur Marauders in hero's army gain +1 to their Attack and Defense for every two levels of the hero, starting on first level. Moreover they get +1% to their starting initiative for every level of the hero"
Ok, say for example haggash is level 20. Centaurs have an initiative of 10, so +20% to that is 12 (starting) initiative. I don't really see how this is majorly overpowered or anything, there are alot of creatures with 12 or higher initiative. Most inferno have over 12, gremlins have 12, assassins have 12, arcane archers have 11... etc
This bonus is only at the start of combat too, after that the initiative returns to normal. I think its a nice perk to have, and that there are definitely a lot of other things in the game which I consider more op
Someone said there is 'no counter' to this. How about getting Ring of Speed (Increases initiative of all your creatures by 20%)? This would nullify any starting bonus haggash would have (at level 20), and moreover all your creatures get a permanent 20% initiative boost.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, but I assume this is how the calculations work...
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 04, 2009 09:39 AM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 09:40, 04 Jan 2009.
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Quote:
Someone said there is 'no counter' to this. How about getting Ring of Speed
Ahhh... Why didnt I think of That????!!!! Tell me again what was the magic word I say to make Ring of Speed Always appear in every game that I am facing Haggash?? I seem to have forgotten it. NewGuy ehh? Thats hard to believe.
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted January 04, 2009 09:53 AM |
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Will be cool if you make "special edition" Jinxer and not ban 1 hero here so ppl can decide what they want to play. Are its possible or you want to force all to use your personal rules
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted January 04, 2009 10:15 AM |
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I'd really like to know what makes a hero a power hero? And why is haggash so powerful that she needs to be banned?
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newguy
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 04, 2009 10:43 AM |
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Well the ring of speed is just an example, theres probably other items similar to it in the game, I don't know. But we are talking about custom maps here aren't we? I've never made a map before, but can't you just put whatever items you want on it?
Also I am new, I've been playing for about a month lol
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joetheloser
Hired Hero
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posted January 04, 2009 10:55 AM |
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Correct me if I'm wrong...
But don't centaurs get +2 initiative with lvl2 blood rage? Which really isn't that hard to get early in battle (memory of blood + thing in castle + kill a couple creatures or lose a couple goblins + warcries...hell, sneeze and you get +30 blood rage I think?)
This means that a level 20 haggash = 12 + 1.2 + 1.2 initiative or 14.4?
or is my math wrong here?
So, with two stacks of centaurs...you are gonna get one at 14.4 very quickly.
14.4 basically tops everything but:
blood furies
griffins
hell stallions
and then the super fast sylvans. (sprites and dancers)
The curious thing is that no other hero which increase the ATT/DEF will ALSO increase initiative. By definition that is an "imbalance"...right?
Even Wyngaal (who is banned, correct?) doesn't even do that...although some might argue global affect is better than creature specific effect any day.
And the arguement that the ring of speed balances out haggash is kinda silly. Take the opposite..say HAGGASH has ring of speed...what does that put her centaurs to?
14.4 without lvl 2 blood rage
17.3 with it lvl 2 blood rage!!
Doest that mean the centaurs would act 2X before the crossbowmen get off a shot?
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted January 04, 2009 11:05 AM |
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You cant get lvl-2 blood rage on starting combat and centaurs are big so its very easy to block them for second turn from battle.
Another problem is orc are very vulnerable vs dark spel.
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joetheloser
Hired Hero
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posted January 04, 2009 11:15 AM |
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Ah, since creeping is probably 95% of the game....
That is what I thought we were talking about here.
Yes Dark magic destroys Stronghold, everyone knows that, but it is irrelevant to the conversation. It is not whether Stronghold is broken town (or even a good/bad town) it is whether HAGGASH is a broken HERO within Stronghold.
Having a double bonus of creature ATT/DEF enhancer PLUS initiative bonus (in my mind) makes her IMBALANCED. Whether that is worth banning or not...that is up to the masses.
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted January 04, 2009 11:32 AM |
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Theory discussion "imba or not" are loose time ... Only practice results, replays from real games shows true situation.
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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