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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 03, 2009 08:34 AM |
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I really don't want to interfere in this nice and comfy little chit-chat here.
But it looks like we have a couple of misconceptions about what ATHEISM actually means. Some things said here about atheism are just concoctions and outright untruths or misinterpretations Sadly it has to be said, that it's the Theists here who show their ugly supremacy face that has brought abought such things like racism and a new slavery.
Everyone who looks into these things will see that ATHEISM means and describes simply ONE thing:
The absence of any belief in the existance of "deities".
Now, what is a deity? Jahwe would be a deity, Horus would be one, Kali or Allah, too. Named entities who actively had a hand in the creation of the universe, take influence in what is happening (or may choose not to, albeit they could if they wanted) and care in a very personal way for what the huimans do or not do including worshipping.
Mytical's belief in SOMETHING, whatever that is, would qualify as atheism, if it's simply an unspecified FORCE, but depending on the specifics it would gradually melts into PANTHEISM which still doesn't belief in god being an entity (or being) but in something like an all-encompassing universe that is more like a universal force that permeats everything, the laws of nature, "mature" and so on.
A lot of people who say, "well I don't believe in god, but..." are actually Pantheists.
It's an unbelievable, ill-willing and - it has to be said - typical diffamation to say that Quote:
Atheism says everything is a cosmic accident with no purpose and no ultimate cause. Therefore nothing has value. Being a cosmic accident humans have no more value than anything else.
It also is wrong and contradictory. "Therefore nothing has value" is wrong and simply untrue (and there I thought Christians were forbidden to lie; little do I know). "Humans have no more value than anything else" shows what is actually the point here. (This is underlined by throwing around the word "specism", more correct "speciesism" which critisizes the species-based evaluation of life.)
The point is simply the intolerable belief that humans are so high above everything else (except god) and therefore are the omnly thing of value (aside of god) which is of course one of the key points of monotheistic religions and Christianity as one of them. "The crown of creation" we know that nonsense, and it's that nonsense that has brought us racial classifications and a deep-seated contempt for everything not human inclusing animals.
In fact, atheism raises the value of non-human life which ultimately results in most atheists having no problems with a reasonable pro-choice legislation but having a lot of problems with torturous treatment of cattle or animal vivisection in labs. The truth is that it's ATHEISTS who value the life, simply and logically because there is no stupid deity to worship which makes LIFE and CONSCIOUSNESS or even SENTIENCE the most valuable thing, human life amongst it, since without that there is nothing there, then, to acknowledge the value of the universe.
The monotheistic religions have had ample time to make abundantly clear how LITTLE value they give everything EXCEPT their respective deity or deities. Look at the enormous cathedrals that were built in the middle ages - for the glory of god - and look at the poverty most people lived in. Not that others couldn't do it as well - the Pyramids (or tombs for humans deemed godly) show that polytheistic religions are prone to these things as well.
For Christians there are only TWO things with a value:
1) God (whether in trinity or unity)
2) The immortal soul
That's it. And that's why so much of an effort is made to "determine" whether something has a soul or not. (As a sidenote, as far as I know, in the islamic religion women are considered soulless.) Everything devoid of a soul is practically worthless because it will not stay but die and get lost.
The bible says that god gave humans dominion over the earth (Gen 1:28):
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and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
With Atheism there is nothing superior like that per se. There is nothing independent that would give us a value. Instead it is US who MAKE ourselves valuable (or not) and find value in everything (or not).
Of course there are those who don't.
There's materialism, a very influential philosophy postulating that everything is matter (the opposite of which is spiritualism and in a way idealism which postulates basically that all matter is an illusion and there is only spirit or the idea; note that you don't need to be a theist to be a spiritualist! Mytical, for example, would be either a Pantheist or an atheistic spiritualist, depending on some details in her belief).
There's Nihilism, indeed. Nihilism is best described as a hangover philosophy: the intoxication with religion and the miracle of faith is over, replaced by disappointment and desillusionment. If you read, for example, Nietzsche, you may notice that he is like a child whose parents just divorced, and now he tries to HURT them for the pain and soroow their separation did to him. While it's true that nihilism is of course an atheistic philosophy it's a diffamation to say that it would be the logical conclusion of atheism. With Nihilism you can virtually taste the pleasure it gave (and give) its proponents to find an anti-position to Christian Theism, to destroy the sandcastles religion built that came with a heavy price to pay in terms of freedom of thinking and so on. It's basically a massive response to a thousand years of Christian dominion over a wide part of the worls culminating in a virtual dominion of the whole world on the apex of Colonialism - without ever coming even distantly close to try and make the world a better place.
However, that's leading too far.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 03, 2009 08:40 AM |
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To clarify while I am not sure if there is one being or many, if it is a force or has intelligence, and any number of other factors..
I believe there is a guiding force and/or being (or beings), and afterlife, and that doing harm to others will end you up in some sort of punishment..but not neccessarily forever. You'd have to do some major bad mojo to get punished forever. All the pain, misery, or harm you have visited on anybody else either directly or indirectly will come back to you at least 3 times over. Probably closer to 10  .
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Message received.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 03, 2009 08:47 AM |
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The question is, whether the force or being CARES and takes an interest, ESPECIALLY and also in WORSHIPPING. The aspect of worship is pretty important: if you leave out the worship, CARE isn't there anymore. The punishment thing may be a question of a "cosmic balance" and something like an automatism brought by some force like a law of nature.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 03, 2009 09:27 AM |
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Lol good one buddy. Think before you post and stop saying that people are insulting you left and right when you're guilty of the same thing.
Actually he is refering to me by a feminine name while knowing I am a male. So I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he is not deliberately violating the COC by provoking me.
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Still have yet to prove your translation of the bible, and not some other translation is the right one. Or that the Mormon one is 'false' (See proves yet another of my facts) *shrugs*. "Just because I say so." doesn't cut it. Sorry.
Sorry, you haven't proven it wrong. You can chose to believe the Bible or not. It is your choice.
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Or that the Mormon one is 'false' (See proves yet another of my facts) *shrugs*. "Just because I say so." doesn't cut it. Sorry.
I already refered to the problem of the book of Mormon quoting the book of Isaiah (KJV) verbatium when the KJV had translated some phrases incorrectly. The book of Mormon was supposedly written long before the KJV came along. Therefore the book of Mormon is a fake.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/curt_heuvel/bom_bible.html
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Of the acknowledged quotes, Isaiah furnishes the largest amount of material. In general, this material is quoted almost verbatim from the King James Version.[2] Some passages, however, do show a fairly substantial amount of reworking. For example, Smith embroidered on Isaiah 29:11,12 to transform the text into a 'prophecy' of the Anthon affair. (II Nephi 27:15 and following).
The changes that were made to the text are illuminating. In general, most of the changes occur in the italicized portions of the King James version (which the King James Translators employed to indicate that the translation is not original to the text). Smith either dropped or modified the italicized phrases. In some cases, the changes made to the text result in impossible readings. For example, II Nephi 19:1 adds the phrase 'red sea' to Isaiah 9:1, which makes no sense in the geographical context.
In several cases, the Book of Mormon follows King James Version translation errors. In the verse just cited, for example, Isaiah 9:1 should read 'honor' in the place of 'grievously afflict'. The Book of Mormon makes the same mistake.
Two chapters of the prophet Malachi are quoted by Jesus in III Nephi 24 and following. The quote is almost verbatim from the King James Version, with some minor variations.
The Book of Mormon also puts the Sermon on the Mount into the mouth of Jesus in III Nephi 12:3 and following. Again, the quote is almost verbatim from the King James Version, with a few more substantial changes, possibly to remove anachronistic references (although the author did not completely succeed in this endeavor.)
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Edit : And while we are quoting verses as to who and who can not be described as a Christian, no human being then can be described as a Christian for...
All Have Sinned and Fall Short of the Glory of God
Romans 3:23
You seem to have no understanding of what you have read. You are taking the verwe out of context and trying to make it say no one is a Christian.
The verse says every person has sinned and in the context of the passage it goes on to say eveyone needs salvation through Jesus because we have all sinned. Once you submit to the gospel of Christ you become a Christian.
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Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
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Anybody (including murderers, rapist, prostitutes) can believe in Christ. Some of the most devout and sincere christians can be found on death row in prison. *shrugs*
To be a Christian you have to repent of your sins. That means forsake your sins. A person who has been a murderer can repent and become a Christian but no Christian will commit murder according to the Bible. In fact the Bible plainly says that no one who hates is a Christian.
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1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted November 03, 2009 09:30 AM |
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Quote:
2) The vast majority of the Bible is very clear as to the meaning. Verses can't just mean anything you want them to mean.
Yes, alone those bible quotes of yours are quite clear, but I bet I could easily put them in context with other quotes and create a whole different meaning. I remain unconvinced.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 03, 2009 09:57 AM |
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Edited by bixie at 10:00, 03 Nov 2009.
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Lol at the whole gender confusion thing!
Yes, my name is really doctor franknfurter and i'm just a sweet transvestite from transexual transylviania!
on a more serious note, I stand by my belief that you are a troll, Eli-kins, and that your constant raving about being insulted and appearences to be the underdog is an insult to the position. your tag-line, at the back of the bus, is a twisted reference to rosa parker, and all those who suffered under the segregation years in your country, which can only be described as doing them a disservice.
Let's get something straight here, you are not an underdog, there are no atheist conspirators, there is no council of evil (despite how cool it would be) who are trying to ruin your crusade. richard Dawkins is not an evil man who goes around churches and takes pisses in the christining font and works as a moderator on this forum in order to undermine you. no, you are ruining your crusade, by doing nothing but whining a quoting bible verses at us.
So what?! as I have said before, my bible serves more use as a coster for my tea-mug than as a religious text. did you even look at the videos I posted? the bible itself is not proof of the christian god, just as the spaghetti testament is not proof of the pastafairan deity. not all of us are going to be converted by some verses from a book that is a translation of a translation of a translation of the half remembered thoughts of four guys who followed the so-callled messiah and came from a region that was growing pot anyway.
what's even more insulting is that you treat us like idiots because we read the underlying text in what your are saying. I know where Christianity comes from, Eli-kins, Everyone does, but your brand of fanatical devotion stems from the bible belt in the dear old US of A. You bemoan the double standards of the forum, but, frankly, you are a massive, four legged, bright pink, farting out the theme tune of "Kurosnowsuji" hypocrit for insulting us in the very same breath as claiming we are insulting you.
If you don't like the rules here, there are plenty of other forums who will be more than happy to accomdate your needs. If you don't want to leave cause this is the only place that does Heroes of might and magic games, then i'm sure there are serveral members here who can point you towards other sites...unless you haven't already been kicked off them for insulting the membership and trolling. if you think the COC and the mods are double standarding, then you have one simple option. put up with the mod's moodswings like the rest of us, or close the browser and find another forum to bother.
it's been about a page since my last question, and you still haven't answered it. feel insulted by what I say as much as you like, if you don't answer this question, then you are dodging the issue of the highest order, and probably couldn't come up with a decent argument for it anyway. My question is this.
Am I a bad person for not believing what you believe? Am I wrong for being a Polytheist? Am I Evil for worshiping multiple gods?
Be careful how you answer this one, Eli-kins. if you answer yes, you are exposed as the hatemonger that you are. if you answer no, then you are exposed as the hypocrit that you are. but you must answer, or you are seen as the massive troll that you are.
nit pick away at this as much as you want, because honestly, I don't care. All I want...All any of us want is a straight answer out of you for this question. Put all the above post up as insults if you wish, it doesn't matter. Answer that question, and all the rest is meaningless.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 03, 2009 10:02 AM |
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To be a Christian you have to repent of your sins. That means forsake your sins. A person who has been a murderer can repent and become a Christian but no Christian will commit murder according to the Bible. In fact the Bible plainly says that no one who hates is a Christian.
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1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
I'm sick and tired of this unbelievable nonsense. The whole meaning of this is to say that a TRUE Christian does neither hate nor murder. That is all. Which is of course nonsense because hate is a feeling and you cannot control WHAT you feel. Control you have about what you do with your feelimng, but not about feeling it.
There's a difference in feeling no hate at all, no matter what happens, and feeling hate, but forcing it down and not acting on it. It's basically the same thing with every feeling. If you feel sad you feel sad. Question is, can you overcome the feeling.
If someone kills your children it's natural to hate that someone. The question is whether you act on it and how. Can you feel FORGIVENESS for the sins of that murder and will you bring him to justice and to his just punishment WITHOUT HATE AT THAT MOMENT? That's what this is all about.
Now, humans are not perfect. Therefore Christians can err and act WRONGLY. That's why there is the chance to repent. A Christian CAN lose it and kill someone, out of any number of overwhelming reasons and motives, even though not only he or she shouldn't, but KNOWS that it is wrong to do so. So what? Erring is only human. If humans couldn't err, no repenting was necessary - after all they couldn't err.
So no matter how much you twist and turn the "quotes" around, your interpretation of things is in glaring contradiction to what Christianity is all about: the STRIVING to be a true follower of Christ which naturally and necessarily includes failure as a consequence of human imperfection with the escape route of TRULY and HONESTLY (in one's heart) repenting.
With your interpretation there either are no Christians at all or there are only perfect ones with no need to repent anything since they don't sin. However, humans DO sin, no matter how hard they strive not to, and that includes murder.
Now, of course you'll start up your usual sermon about who defines what, the whole routine... oh dear.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 03, 2009 10:07 AM |
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I would have to say..no on the most part. While it may care for us in a greater sense..ie love, it doesn't care if we call it a certain name or if we worship it (Where it can be it, him, her, or them). I just don't understand how a cosmic being would need us to 'worship' it. Now that is not to say that it doesn't care for us, or that it ignores us, but there is a whole universe it has responsibility for.
Yeah it is a cosmic balance thing. You get what you give. The entity won't interfear in what you do, but it keeps tabs and track. You rape that child, or kill that person, that is free will and it's going to balance that at the end of the day (ie in the afterlife). I believe that this force is 'neutral' not either holy (good) or unholy (evil). Life has meaning in that you learn and grow and hopefully gain understanding of 'the bigger picture'. The meaning of life IS that understanding BUT if you achieve that understanding or not is in your own hands (not counting outside forces like the freewill of others).
When you die, there is not a 'rebirth' but you go to an afterlife that your own life has created. Some good, some bad, but it is what you have made for yourself during your life. Greed, hate, etc will cause your afterlife to get worse, while honesty, humbleness, etc will cause a better afterlife. However, as the pain you cause others 'balances' out your afterlife will get better. Although it is a net zero gain, meaning that some will have better afterlives then others due to how 'good' they were in THIS life.
Good in the sense of how they treat others.
While each afterlife will be personal, you will be able to visit friends and loved ones. There will be a 'neutral' area that is kind of a giant field, maybe with a shade tree here or there, and nothing else that people can mingle..for a time. Once that time is up, they have to go back to their own afterlife, for a time. The neutral area (besides having friends and family) will be kind of bland but a 'relaxed' atmosphere. Always day, but never hot or cold or anything.
((This would take near forever to explain my thoughts on the afterlife, and I probably am not doing the best job, but I am at least attempting to.))
Visits to the mortal realm ARE possible, but it is no guarantee they will percieve you or that you will be able to interact with them. Some of the more sensitive may indeed be able to percieve and interact with you. Although you exist as an energy, it is an energy that most devices or technology as of yet can not detect. In the future...who knows.
Humanity both breaks the entities heart, for all the cruelness it is capable of..and is a source of boundless pride (like the pride one might have for their children) for the boundless GOOD they are capable of. I am not sure WHY it hasn't given up on us louts, but it hasn't...yet. It SHOULD, but it hasn't.
To this entity it is more important to love each other then how or who you love.
Now a lot of people ask why I believe this. Since I constantly ask others the same question (why they believe what they believe, and often get quoted scripture. So I say .. "Let me get this straight..you believe your bible, because your bible tells you to?")
1) Why I believe there is an afterlife. Answer - Because I have had direct personal experience with an entity that can only be explained and described as a 'ghost' or spirit of a deceased person. Not only once (although I usually only describe the once because the other is a bit..more unusual).
2) Why I believe in a 'higher power'. Because I do not think we are a 'accident'. I don't exactly believe in 'intelligent design' but I do believe that (yes I know that it sounds strange) our design was purposeful. Not some cosmic accident.
3) Well Mytical .. how old do you think the universe is then? Not near as old as people think, because I do not think we know enough to accurately measure 'age' of something like we THINK we do. Not as young as some others think either however. I've often posed a question. If you go out and cut down a tree, you count the rings to see how old it is right? Well if a 'higher power' would create that tree in front of you and you cut it down..it would have just as many rings. So you would know it is new, but the next person who comes along would think it ancient. However, the being does not do this for any kind of test. It made the universe how it thought it should be, and we just do not know enough to UNDERSTAND why that is yet.
4) Why the various afterlifes then? From studing many religions. I don't think ANY of them are wrong. Not even the 'reincarnation' ones. Although I personally don't think we return to this earth..who knows? My belief is that some people have gotten glimpses of their own afterlife..and then made it back into their 'current' life. Then they described it..and that is where the versions of the afterlife came from. Which leads us too..
5) Wait..all of the religions can't be right can they? Well maybe not ALL (I am sure some are just for some persons personal gain), but a deity would appear to somebody in a way that that person would understand. Thus..Allah, Budda, etc were how somebody could understand it. They would also explain things, but humans would not neccessarily understand it, and interpret things how they could best understand it. Thus the different religions. Not because the deities change, or the message changes..but the understanding of both changed because it was a HUMAN who interpreted it.
Example - 5a. Deity says "I love you and your people". Person A Thinks "Aha me and my people are the deities chosen ones, we should smite everybody else, and everybody else who is not us or doesn't believe like us is EVIL! When the Deity meant "I love you and ALL humans."
Know I am forgetting a lot, but hope this covers the basics
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Message received.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 03, 2009 10:15 AM |
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Sadly it has to be said, that it's the Theists here who show their ugly supremacy face that has brought abought such things like racism and a new slavery.
Christianity teaches all races are equal and to love everyone as you love yourself. It is the ugly face of atheistic supremicists such as Hitler who embraced racism and called various races sub-human. OH yeah, the atheist Stalin was very racist too.
Of course some liars will try to tell you differently, but Christianity does not advocate racism. Here is a vers you can present to anyone who says it does.
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Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
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Mytical's belief in SOMETHING, whatever that is, would qualify as atheism, if it's simply an unspecified FORCE, but depending on the specifics it would gradually melts into PANTHEISM which still doesn't belief in god being an entity (or being) but in something like an all-encompassing universe that is more like a universal force that permeats everything, the laws of nature, "mature" and so on.
Atheists only believe in a material universe. They don't believe in an unnamed spiritual force.
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It also is wrong and contradictory. "Therefore nothing has value" is wrong and simply untrue (and there I thought Christians were forbidden to lie; little do I know).
I'm not the liar.
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The point is simply the intolerable belief that humans are so high above everything else (except god) and therefore are the omnly thing of value (aside of god) which is of course one of the key points of monotheistic religions and Christianity as one of them. "The crown of creation" we know that nonsense, and it's that nonsense that has brought us racial classifications and a deep-seated contempt for everything not human inclusing animals.
The racism has come from people such as atheists who reject the teaching of love everyone as yourself.
It is sad that believe human beings to be of no more value than a garden slug. You have prove my point. Atheists who are consistent with atheism place no more value on human life than on anything else. Everything is a cosmic accident.
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Mat 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
It is sad you don't believe peple are more valuable than birds.
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In fact, atheism raises the value of non-human life which ultimately results in most atheists having no problems with a reasonable pro-choice legislation but having a lot of problems with torturous treatment of cattle or animal vivisection in labs.
So you are saying many atheists are in favor of murdering unborn babies but oppose animals being used in medical experiments.
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The monotheistic religions have had ample time to make abundantly clear how LITTLE value they give everything EXCEPT their respective deity or deities. Look at the enormous cathedrals that were built in the middle ages - for the glory of god - and look at the poverty most people lived in. Not that others couldn't do it as well - the Pyramids (or tombs for humans deemed godly) show that polytheistic religions are prone to these things as well.
Actually what is shown is Christians have many thousands of organizations to help the poor, homesless, ect. Atheist have none. BUt that is in keeping with the atheistic idea that human life is not more valuable than the life of bird. Survival of "the fittest."
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For Christians there are only TWO things with a value:
1) God (whether in trinity or unity)
2) The immortal soul
I'm sorry but you are either a liar or very ignorant of the Bible.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
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Everything devoid of a soul is practically worthless because it will not stay but die and get lost.
Sorry, wrong again.
You will note that Adam was to take care of the garden he was placed in. Yes, having dominion over the animals means that mankind is better than the animals. I'm so sorry you don't believe people are any better than a skunk apparently.
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With Atheism there is nothing superior like that per se. There is nothing independent that would give us a value.
That is exactly what I have been saying about the conclusions of atheism and people have been saying I was wrong. Thanks for backing me up.
Atheists who have thought atheism through don't believe in human exceptionalism. They think people are nothing special. Of no more worth than rat. Everytihng is just a cosmic accident. No rhyme, reason, or future. Nothing but heat death in the end. All if vanity. Nihilism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism
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Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is the philosophical doctrine suggesting the negation of one or more aspects of life or the world in general. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism which argues that life[1] is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived. Subsequently there are no moral values with which to uphold a rule or logically prefer one action over another. Nihilism can also take epistemological, metaphysical, or ontological forms.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 03, 2009 10:21 AM |
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umm... guys...
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GOLDEN RULE: TRY NOT TO QUOTE. TRY NOT TO ANSWER TO LITTLE PARTS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT IF YOU REALLY MUST QUOTE SOMEONE.
that was really meant for greater good. Elodin, would you please stop quoting so much? Both JJ and Mytical use few quotes or don't use at all when replying. Can you also try? The previous thread got locked also because it was a never ending quote war.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted November 03, 2009 10:22 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 10:24, 03 Nov 2009.
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I still don't feel like I've gotten an answer to why you know that you're way of interpreting things is the right one... mind addressing my previous post?
Please save me from this abyss of ignorance oh mighty holder of divine knowledge!
PS: I bet you play Haven 
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 03, 2009 10:22 AM |
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That was part of it, yes. It also got locked because of the continuing escallation of "Nah nah I am right and you are wrong, but I won't/can't prove why." "NU UH I am right and you are wrong, and you are a doody head."
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Message received.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 03, 2009 10:51 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 10:56, 03 Nov 2009.
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on a more serious note, I stand by my belief that you are a troll, Eli-kins,
Everyone does, but your brand of fanatical devotion
You bemoan the double standards of the forum, but, frankly, you are a massive, four legged, bright pink, farting out the theme tune of "Kurosnowsuji" hypocrit
Be careful how you answer this one, Eli-kins. if you answer yes, you are exposed as the hatemonger that you are. if you answer no, then you are exposed as the hypocrit that you are.
And the insults keep rolling in.
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Let's get something straight here, you are not an underdog, there are no atheist conspirators, there is no council of evil (despite how cool it would be) who are trying to ruin your crusade.
I'm not the one on a crusade.
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it's been about a page since my last question, and you still haven't answered it. feel insulted by what I say as much as you like, if you don't answer this question, then you are dodging the issue of the highest order, and probably couldn't come up with a decent argument for it anyway. My question is this.
Oh, so because I didn't address every point in your post I am dodging the question eh?
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Am I a bad person for not believing what you believe? Am I wrong for being a Polytheist? Am I Evil for worshiping multiple gods?
No, a person is not a bad person simply because he does not believe what I do. No, you are not evil for worshiping multiple "gods."
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Be careful how you answer this one, Eli-kins. if you answer yes, you are exposed as the hatemonger that you are. if you answer no, then you are exposed as the hypocrit that you are. but you must answer, or you are seen as the massive troll that you are.
I am neither a hatemonger nor a hypocrite. Anyone who says otherwise is lying or deceived.
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I'm sick and tired of this unbelievable nonsense. The whole meaning of this is to say that a TRUE Christian does neither hate nor murder. That is all. Which is of course nonsense because hate is a feeling and you cannot control WHAT you feel. Control you have about what you do with your feelimng, but not about feeling it.
Sorry, but not everyone hates. And yes, you can chose to hate or not hate by embracing the feeling or casting it aside.
No, it is not nonsense you a person does not have to hate. It may be beyond your comprehension but that does not mean it is not true.
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Now, humans are not perfect. Therefore Christians can err and act WRONGLY.
Yes, but they won't murder.
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Now, of course you'll start up your usual sermon about who defines what, the whole routine... oh dear.
Yes, the New Testament defines who is a Christian. Atheists don't get to define who is a Christian. Imagine that.
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Elodin, would you please stop quoting so much? Both JJ and Mytical use few quotes or don't use at all when replying. Can you also try?
Sure, maybe others can knock off the insults. When responding to multiple posts or points it makes more sense to use quotes though.
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I still don't feel like I've gotten an answer to why you know that you're way of interpreting things is the right one... mind addressing my previous post?
Please save me from this abyss of ignorance oh mighty holder of divine knowledge!
PS: I bet you play Haven
I play all factions but my favorite is the Academy.
Context, the rest of the Bible, and the Spirit.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 03, 2009 10:55 AM |
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Edited by bixie at 11:02, 03 Nov 2009.
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yes, the insults keep rolling in, you whining little ignormaus!
re-read the post, look at what my suggestions are, and what you should do because of that, then do it, you hypocrite!
this false underdoggery is driving us all insane. all you ever do is pick the parts of posts that suit your arguments and consider the rest that we say are rubbish. NO ONE IS OUT TO PUT YOUR CAUSE DOWN. the only one who is hurting your cause is yourself for being such a moaning schoolboy.
You claim you are an adult, stop acting like a child who wants a toy!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 03, 2009 10:58 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 11:00, 03 Nov 2009.
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Actually he did.
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Am I a bad person for not believing what you believe? Am I wrong for being a Polytheist? Am I Evil for worshiping multiple gods?
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No, a person is not a bad person simply because he does not believe what I do. No, you are not evil for worshiping multiple "gods."
Still have yet for him to answer why his inerpretation is 'right' and not others, and to address Adrius' question either. He will get around to it eventually.
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Message received.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 03, 2009 11:04 AM |
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Actually he did.
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Am I a bad person for not believing what you believe? Am I wrong for being a Polytheist? Am I Evil for worshiping multiple gods?
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No, a person is not a bad person simply because he does not believe what I do. No, you are not evil for worshiping multiple "gods."
Still have yet for him to answer why his inerpretation is 'right' and not others, and to address Adrius' question either. He will get around to it eventually.
I posted what I said there before he had replied, so, i couldn't read it, sorry.
however, I notice that he uses Gods in quotation marks (now to play at his game).
You spurious little toad, how dare you claim that your one god is superior to my gods. how dare you claim that I am a delusional for believing in multiple gods, you deserve to be kicked off the forum for that! read the CoC as it clearly says that religious insults are not to be permited so there!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 03, 2009 11:09 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 11:10, 03 Nov 2009.
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Everybody, try to reign in the personal attacks? That means everybody. That is a request. Yeah me, Elodin, and others are just as guilty, but rather this thread stay open. Please?
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Message received.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted November 03, 2009 11:45 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 12:10, 03 Nov 2009.
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Man, Bixie's on fire!
EDIT: Thanks for your answer Elodin. I'm satisfied.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 03, 2009 12:38 PM |
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I had been watching my super sweet sixteen before hand... if nothing else, that show will make you ready to beat up a polar bear.
again, when I am in an argument, All gloves come off, and I will insult and threaten my opponent. if it wasn't over the internet, I will rush over to him and knee him in the testicles.
but i've calmed down, watched Hetalia, and now I feel ready to apologise....
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 03, 2009 01:08 PM |
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It's no personal attack but only the truth when I say that Elodin's posts are oozing un-Christian ill-will, dishonesty, false statements, quotes-out-of-context and twistings of phrasings with the only intention to PROVE OTHERS WRONG, and to hell with honesty and truth. I'm not going into quoting all those dishonesties and false claims - everyone able to read and interested and following this will see it.
In other words, he is constantly sinning. In this, he consequently follows the path the Church strode on all these centuries. Oh ye of little faith - if you think a figure like Christ would need your petty bickering you are guilty of a couple of deadly sins, pride among them.
Be that as it may, I would wish you to be a happier person with this kind of strong belief you have instead of being the tight zealot you display here.
@Mytical
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I would have to say..no on the most part. While it may care for us in a greater sense..ie love, it doesn't care if we call it a certain name or if we worship it (Where it can be it, him, her, or them). I just don't understand how a cosmic being would need us to 'worship' it. Now that is not to say that it doesn't care for us, or that it ignores us, but there is a whole universe it has responsibility for.
Well, that's the point. If it doesn't matter whether we worship a being or not - suddenly the whole necessity for organized religion vanishes. Poof. Because what we believe or not suddenly doesn't matter anymore: there is this force, and it just doesn't care what we believe in our ignorance - it just might have made sure that eventually enlightenment may some to everyone.
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Yeah it is a cosmic balance thing...... Mytical's belief outlined...In the future...who knows.
It's what I would call an "updated pantheism with roots in Christianity and a couple of other things put into. As a belief it's not worse than any others I know, but certainly more reasonable than a couple of those. 
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Humanity both breaks the entities heart, for all the cruelness it is capable of..and is a source of boundless pride (like the pride one might have for their children) for the boundless GOOD they are capable of. I am not sure WHY it hasn't given up on us louts, but it hasn't...yet. It SHOULD, but it hasn't.
Oh, but here I FIRMLY disagree. Sure, humans are cruel - but so is nature. So is life. There is a lot of suffering, and we humans stand in line - we just have the capacity to SEE cruelty and to be WILLINGLY cruel, but that's only the other side of the coin. We can be nice and lovely as well, which is the reason why we can tame otherwise wild animals and make them want to live with us.
Furthermore cruelty comes automatically: a person loves you, but you don't love her. How cruel for her - she'll never fulfill her dream and be together with you. There is happiness, but for the same reason there is unhappiness as well.
I'm not going to comment much on the reasoning - I think that reaosns for believing are watering it down. I agree with the validity of your tree ring argument - I've used a similar one for a very long time to say that we could live in some kind of theater with everything around as being props and we wouldn't realize it.
With that you basically pull away the reasonable carpet we try to stand upon. There are endless possibilities.
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