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| Thread: Told to remove American FLAG!!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Peacemaker
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posted October 16, 2009 05:22 PM |
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One more thing.
I kind-of hate to bust anyone's bubble in this discussion, but I think it's important that you know that the only remedy in the case of a tenant's right being violated is that they can be released from the terms of the lease. Either way, in order to avoid the violation their only remedy is to leave and move out. The only question before the court is whether 1) they owe the landlord for the amount of the entire lease (like say the rest of the year's rent on a one-year lease) or whether 2) they are released from owing the landlord for the remainder of the terms of the lease.
This might give you all some idea of the magnitude of control the private owners of rental properties truly enjoy.
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TheDeath
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posted October 16, 2009 05:25 PM |
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If they get out obviously they should be released, not fair otherwise, unless it's stated in the lease?
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Peacemaker
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posted October 16, 2009 05:26 PM |
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If I understand your question, no. If they leave they still owe the landlord for the remainder of the term of the lease, unless released by a court for breach of quiet enjoyment. That's the whole purpose of having a lease -- the agreement by the renter to a period of time.
Now if the lease if month-to-month then it's a lot less complicated.
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Shyranis
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posted October 16, 2009 05:38 PM |
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The only problem is private property is an odd slippery slope. The apartments are technically a place of business, and in such places free speech is typically banned, you must wear regulation clothing (whatever they want you to, in offices it's business casual, there is a resteraunt that only denies children the choice of crossdressing but not adults).
Of course there's this classic for business owners, oft cited.
Guns are typically forbidden on private property no matter what. My hubby worked for Dell, and even in Texas (its home state) you can't have a gun on any Dell property, not even in your car's glove box in the parking lot. Or you'll be fired and brought up on criminal charges. (Main reason is because shooting rampages happened when guns were allowed.) Where does owning private property give you the rights to regulate something and where does it begin and end? For who is it right to decide? The Government or the Business owner? The Community? Religious organizations only can ban certain garb and items again because of private property laws. They can do what they want on the land they own.
Democrats and Republicans are just as likely to impose things on a person, Republicans are trying to implement a Dress code in Pennsylvania in order to vote. Republicans most often support laws banning people from killing themselves and laws to spy on domestic residents and indefinitely imprison people without charges. Both political parties are inherently doing very evil things under the banner of good. I mean, under the last President wearing an Impeach Bush shirt could get you arrested. People aren't getting arrested now for waving around Nazi Obama merchandise. Not that Obama is any better than Bush and really, overall, the Government is still the same and has protected all of the rights abusers from the last administration and is continuing (silently, not as openly) most of the same policies. This can only mean that they are effectively, the same party working with extreme angles on both sides back and forth as a distractionary tactic to impose what they want =p
I also dislike how somehow I seem to be the one accused of indoctrination when I constantly say how the Democrats are also wrong on top of the Republicans and how Obama isn't the bees knees when the person accusing me seems to put the Republicans on a pedestal and excuse them from all of their abuses. Both parties are corrupt down to the core, along with the elite of both of them. You name one truly good politician that is popular among the base of each party? (I know you mentioned Sarah Palin, but please, she's as corrupt as the rest of them.)
What's more, why do people keep calling the Nazis socialist? National Socialist Party is just a party name. The Japanese Non-regulative, religious freedom at all costs "Conservative" party is called the Liberal Democrat Party (They just lost to the social welfare, "Liberal" party, Democratic Party of Japan recently). It's a name. Get over it. Who would be stupid enough to willingly impose a governmental system on themselves democratically after being crushed under its boots by a madman like Hitler? Hitler was a Corporatist (which I suppose that does make it somewhat fascist for Obama and Bush's policy of giving money to large companies for political favours and not any direct financial gain or control for the government, the definition of Corporatism). People decry "socialized medicine" as Fascist, but the Fascists were opposed to it and tried to remove it until they faced revolt, so they only removed it for minorities and chose not to implement it in their (then future) conquered territories instead. They were absolutely opposed to anything they saw as "Communist" leaning. Another thing people seem to be getting confused about. Communism is a complete takeover of all industry, something that causes the government to over-extend itself and leads to as much corruption as a fully de-regulated private sector. Too much power in any one area leads to corruption, but instead people like to blame one another, and merge historical opposite ideologies together in a glazed easy to swallow hate donut. Seriously, people need to study history for themselves instead of just trusting pundits. Essentially, Glenn Beck = Michael Moore. They throw some little bits of truth in to make the lies palatable.
You have to try to look at things from all sides, both political parties are corrupt and support removing different civil liberties that happen to work well in tandem for controlling people who listen to the Corporate media. You previously said that only "Liberals" can be parrots, but that's untrue. Parroting is the practice of regurgitating what was you have heard without questioning it. That's an act that both parties heartily encourage as the fewer rational, independent speakers there are, the easier it is to control you. Which is why stories like this get (inter)national attention on the internet, so we can all form an opinion and be divided. Divide by 2, polarize and conquer. That's all there is to it. What makes me a Conservative? I want you to have your country back as a land that respects everybody equally with no undue privileges and discrimination laws having no exemptions. But no Republican, no Democrat, no Independent with a free will different from the party's hive mind can ever have a shot and will constantly be ridiculed by the Corporate media that is so dependent on the government's teat to ever do any true reporting. (Yes, even Fox).
So where do property rights end for your place of business and where do personal rights begin?
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Peacemaker
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posted October 16, 2009 05:54 PM |
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Shyranis --
This country's economy and arguably the Constitution was founded on private property by property owners. Don't forget that originally, the only folks who had the right to vote were White male landowners. The underlying premise of the rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" was originally stated as "life, liberty and property" by Western philosopher John Locke. The rest of us came trailing along later in chunks, fits and starts.
The Bill of Rights and additional amendments in the Constitution are the general basis of individual rights. Additional protections of individuals exist in federal and state legistation (laws passed). As to private property rights versus personal rights, it has always been considered a matter of one's personal right to exercise control over one's private property. While the right to exercise control over one's own property has seen some incursion by a certain amount of regulation to protect the general welfare, for the most part personal control over private property remains intact (at least in my opinion). The rights of individuals (personal rights as you call them) on the other hand have expanded greatly over the past two hundred years notwithstanding whether the individual owns property.
I guess the easiest way to say it is that your personal rights end when you enter the property of another, unless you are talking about criminal acts against yourself. Otherwise, the property owner sets the rules and you follow them while you are there and until you leave.
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violent_flower
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posted October 16, 2009 06:21 PM |
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As a landlord in the past, a onetime landlord for several reasons, the tenants usually seem to have more rights
then the owner, the tenants do have the right of peaceful possession, and while there are stipulations that you
can put in the lease before they sign, unless it is a state law that they are breaking, you can’t just
make things up as you go along.
My tenants had this really ugly Bambi looking thing in the yard,
it was huge, and all the neighbors were complaining that it was
an eye sore.
I could not go tell them to remove it because it
was an eye sore so I used what was already in my, you may
not have anything on the grass that will harm it or kill it.
So they took it off the grass and put it on the roof to spite
me. So there are ways around everything, in the end
I climbed up on the roof and then hung it in the backyard
on the tree with a noose before ending their lease.
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Elodin
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posted October 16, 2009 06:28 PM |
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Quote:
@Elodin: you're overlooking the fact that the landlord OWNS the thing, and if the contract says "subject to modification without notice" (which I have no idea), then all your arguments are null.
You see the government as an evil entity that should not control people's lives, but don't you see, this leads to PEOPLE trying to control other people's lives -- if they OWN the PRIVATE (aka non-public, non-government-controlled) area?
Yes, people who own apartments can be anti-american, anti-freedoms and anti-whatever-you-believe-in too, not just the government. Wake up, and it's their right to put their own rules into their property.
A contract can't say "subject to modification without notice." Otherwise after signing the contract the landlord could insert the clause that all females have to have sex with him on demand.
A contract is a fixed set of agreements between two parties and is legally binding.
Yes, the landlord owns the apartment, common areas, and the parking lot. But he can't enter the apartment whenever he feels like it. He can't tow away your car just because he feels like it. He can't lock you in the laundry room.
Being a landlord does not give you the rights of a dictator. A landlord does not own the tenants.
The landlord must abide by the terms of the contract with the tenant. If he does not he can be sued.
Yes, both the governemnt and some people have a tendency to oppress other people. The government is the greatest threat to everyone's freedom if it is not kept in check. Yes, I don't want the government or anyone controlling my life.
No, a landlord can't make just any rule he wants to if the property is open to rental by the general public. He can't say "no blacks", "no Jews", "no gays," "no handicaped," "no Muslims," ect.
Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity
Quote:
Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act), as amended, prohibits discrimination in the sale, rental, and financing of dwellings, and in other housing-related transactions, based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status (including children under the age of 18 living with parents or legal custodians, pregnant women, and people securing custody of children under the age of 18), and handicap (disability).
As far as tatoos, if the landlord can ban them based on potential gang violence he can ban a number of colors because gang members take offense at people wearing the colors of rival gangs.
So you want to wear grey, blue, red, black, gold, white, green, or pink? No, sorry, those are all gang colors. You can't wear them in my apartment complex and you can't drive a car that has any of those colors either.
Quote:
Then explain the ruling I linked to - both wings of the court agreed against property rights.
I didnt' say what some moron on a court might say. I said Republicans and conservatives respect property rights.
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And yet I hardly ever see you criticising the Republicans. Come on, let's hear it. Where do you disagree with them?
Yes, I usually criticize the demoncrat socialist party because all the demoncrat leaders are at best socialists.
I did criticize McCain. You don't recall me saying he was the lesser of two evils between the choice of McCain and Obama?
I disagree with the Republicans on "free trade" for instance. I believe in fair trade. Trade between countries of similar standards of living. The American worker can't compete with a foreign worker in China that gets paid 5 cents an hour. And I have stated that before.
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Peacemaker
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posted October 16, 2009 06:33 PM |
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ROFL!!!!
Quote:
So they took it off the grass and put it on the roof to spite
me. So there are ways around everything, in the end
I climbed up on the roof and then hung it in the backyard
on the tree with a noose before ending their lease.
That's hysterical.
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Peacemaker
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posted October 16, 2009 06:41 PM |
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Elodin, your constant usage of the term "moron" and other such epithets in reference to folks who disagree with you becomes tiresome after a while. It makes folks just want to ignore you and not take you as seriously as they might otherwise. You'd be much more persuasive in your points if you'd stick to the facts, don't you think?
Also, if you review my post above then you will see that I distinguished the Fair Housing Act issue from the others.
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mvassilev
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posted October 16, 2009 06:43 PM |
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Quote:
I didnt' say what some moron on a court might say.
When it comes to property rights, it's "some moron on a court". When it's religion, it's "the supreme court decided atheism is a religion". Bit contradictory to use them to back you up and then call them morons, right?
Quote:
I disagree with the Republicans on "free trade" for instance. I believe in fair trade. Trade between countries of similar standards of living. The American worker can't compete with a foreign worker in China that gets paid 5 cents an hour. And I have stated that before.
So you're even worse than the Republicans.
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Elodin
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posted October 16, 2009 06:43 PM |
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Quote:
Elodin, your constant usage of the term "moron" and other such epithets in reference to folks who disagree with you becomes tiresome after a while. It makes folks just want to ignore you and not take you as seriously as they might otherwise. You'd be much more persuasive in your points if you'd stick to the facts, don't you think?
I don't use such terms to apply to anyone on the board. Certainly others use such terms constantly to insult Palin, Bush, ect. So i don't think me saying some judge is a moron is wrong.
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TheDeath
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posted October 16, 2009 06:44 PM |
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Quote:
No, a landlord can't make just any rule he wants to if the property is open to rental by the general public. He can't say "no blacks", "no Jews", "no gays," "no handicaped," "no Muslims," ect.
If it's in the contract, why not, it's his property. If he doesn't like blacks, jews or gays, what's your problem with his property? Right? The government shouldn't interfere, after all.
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Peacemaker
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posted October 16, 2009 06:47 PM |
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As Elodin and I pointed out above, the Fair Housing Act prohibits certain kinds of discrimination by private landowners. If it's in the lease then the lease is illegal and void.
<EDIT> Upon second reading, perhaps you were speaking with tongue in cheek...?
Elodin: You're free to call others "morons" just as you are free to diminsh the effectiveness of your arguments. Fine with me. I just wonder why you'd willingly diminish the effectiveness of your arguments.
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TheDeath
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posted October 16, 2009 06:51 PM |
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Yes I was speaking with tongue in cheek, because he hates the government, and it is the government which prevents that from happening. 
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mvassilev
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posted October 16, 2009 06:54 PM |
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Elodin, do you support the Fair Housing Act?
Because it's definitely interference with property rights.
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violent_flower
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posted October 16, 2009 06:59 PM |
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My thread I can say it Elodin- The only "poll" that Palin
is good for is a stripper pole!!!
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Doomforge
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posted October 16, 2009 07:22 PM |
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She's 45 - isn't she a bit, umm, too old for that? 
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Peacemaker
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posted October 16, 2009 07:24 PM |
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Say Doomforge --
Did you ever get my last reply to your Native Americans thread?
(Sorry offtopic)
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Elodin
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posted October 16, 2009 07:25 PM |
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Quote:
Elodin, do you support the Fair Housing Act?
Because it's definitely interference with property rights.
Yes, I support the Fair Housing Act because the government is supposed to be a guardian of the rights of the people. The people have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, among other things.
A landlord has no right to prevent me from pursuing happiness in any way I deem fit as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.
A Jew has as much right to rent an aprtment as anyone else. A black has as much right to eat in a public restruant as anyone else.
Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Quote:
My thread I can say it Elodin- The only "poll" that Palin
is good for is a stripper pole!!!
She is certainly more qualified than the socialist puppet Obama to be President.
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Doomforge
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posted October 16, 2009 07:29 PM |
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Shyranis:
You can't have a gun in Texas? Wow... that breaks a lot of urban myths we have here about America. Like "every American has a double-barred shotgun in his closet" 
Peacemaker:
Must have missed it. I'll check it soon, right now GTG.
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