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TheDeath
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posted December 11, 2009 11:44 PM |
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Then go and complain to the police, because obviously, I'm not advocating "slapping" (don't worry I got what you meant). Your target is on the opposite direction, is all I'm saying.
If you mean that being treated unfairly by someone means that you are entitled to do whatever you want to them, worst case being even bomb them to shreds, just because you were mistreated. No, that's retarded and barbaric.
You are only entitled against those who slapped you. I bet you don't even know a tenth of the muslims you advocate against, and even if you do, I don't think they slapped you with their minarets. 
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Salamandre
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posted December 11, 2009 11:50 PM |
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The Death I am ignoring you, as if I write that I love them you would start to debate why I do it
On a comic note, I have a puzzle for you (very easy, just pick the middle guy)
Find the french! 
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TheDeath
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posted December 11, 2009 11:52 PM |
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I know this wasn't the purpose, I find that pic a bit racist. You know, same reasoning as keeping France "pure".
Would that pic be a puzzle if it was the USA? Think about it.
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Salamandre
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posted December 12, 2009 12:07 AM |
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Whats wrong with USA team? It seems a good mixture:
I don't mind having mixtures or cultures which shows how races are integrated. But when the "native" quota becomes negative (21/2) one can wonder if anything is right or at it should be. At least keep a correct ratio.
If I was starting to argue in The Death mode, I would ask why the Romanian and Switzerland teams do not use more minorities and have clearly a racist composition. It is about the side you are looking from, and works in both directions.
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TheDeath
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posted December 12, 2009 12:16 AM |
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All I see are football teams. What's bad about them not being of french ethnicity? Obama is black. Should that be of concern that blacks take over the USA? What about muslim presidents? Clearly a different thing, right?
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Salamandre
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posted December 12, 2009 12:24 AM |
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The composition of the french national team is showing clearly the complex identity problem we are going through. That was my point.
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mvassilev
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posted December 12, 2009 12:24 AM |
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Salamandre
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posted December 12, 2009 12:31 AM |
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Nobody. It is a mirror of a specific society and a specific situation. Which is harder and harder to handle. Not about ethnicity, but about radical changes which occurred in the French society in the last decade, and who will surely lead to a culture clash.
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Lexxan
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posted December 12, 2009 12:42 AM |
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Football isn't about nationalities and Heritage. It's about winning and being the best.
It's just a game, for Christ's sake.
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Salamandre
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posted December 12, 2009 01:03 AM |
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Any society has to modernize in a way or another and open itself today to the world. Would be blind to not see that. But it is a complex process which must be done in time and be somewhat controlled. Too much change in a short period leads to collapsing. Proposing minarets today in France would cause a 100% national reject, because of a multitude of factors which went out of control.
Now it will be easier for you to call all native frenchies racists, but more constructive and long to understand what would cause their instant reject without jumping too soon on the racist behavior, which is quite lame to bring again and again. Unfortunately it seems I am the only one on those forums which lives in France so it may sound isolated and against the wind. But believe me, my statements are extremely gentle comparing to what I hear everyday here.
@TheDeath, it is lame that you bring Obama's skin color as answer to my previous post. Really lame. No comment.
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TheDeath
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posted December 12, 2009 02:00 AM |
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Quote:
Now it will be easier for you to call all native frenchies racists, but more constructive and long to understand what would cause their instant reject without jumping too soon on the racist behavior, which is quite lame to bring again and again. Unfortunately it seems I am the only one on those forums which lives in France so it may sound isolated and against the wind. But believe me, my statements are extremely gentle comparing to what I hear everyday here.
Oh no doubt about that, I believe you. France sounds pretty retarded -- if the majority is annoyed at something or "are not gentle" that gives them the right to invade other people's private property? No wonder that they are against muslims -- french people think that muslims will use the same weapons, tyranny by majority, later on because by their behavior it's perfectly acceptable.
Quote:
@TheDeath, it is lame that you bring Obama's skin color as answer to my previous post. Really lame. No comment.
It was a merely ethnic observation, and I've seen plenty of black people in the pic you posted. Because that pic had no minarets, burkas or stuff like that, so what kind of reply did you expect if not about ethnicity?
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Salamandre
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posted December 12, 2009 02:18 AM |
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And you deliberately ignore the context, aren't you? A french team with a ratio of 21 north africans vs 2 french natives is very unusual for a "national" team.
Of course, the "national" concept today is larger, after all those north africans have french nationality as well (and they integrate perfect, with the millions they get every month). But in the context of actual troubles, with all the explosive situation over here, that pic shows not a skin color predominance but more a mirror of the dilemmas habiting the native frenchies. A massive clash between two very different cultures, one trying to survive and keep its secular values, the other ignoring and mocking on anything it can not understand. I still wait for them express their gratitude towards France, for offering them the possibility of a better and free life, instead of whining every day about discrimination. Today France is the less racist people on the earth. Open borders, discrimination strictly punished by law, discussions forums over censured.
Moreover, they keep loosing...and playing handball.
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TheDeath
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posted December 12, 2009 02:27 AM |
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My point was that the US, as an example in contrast, is made purely by immigrants (or very few natives anyway). And ethnicity is not the same as nationality. Obama, from my example, is an american, even though his ethnicity is not. So with your pic, I don't see any problem at all.
Think about this. If same picture was presented to a bunch of US folks, there would have been no problem at all, they would say.
On another note, I find it pretty weird for muslims to integrate into a western society and start promoting freedoms (instead of their 'barbaric' laws) when the example the west gives them and how it treats them is the opposite. Think about it.
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Salamandre
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posted December 12, 2009 02:33 AM |
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Obama is a very charming man, and it will not be hard for him to have better achievements than the previous president. Being president is a charisma business, not a skin color. After all, Sarkozy also is a non native. If France was racist, he would never achieve it.
Personally I don' think that the French solution would go through hard punishment. It never worked. But through high quality education. Where the education is born? In the family. The family must be responsible for the children acts. If the mother barely speaks french because she has to keep the house day and night, and the father unemployed is in front of the TV at the same period, there can not be integration for kids. Take care of the family first, then make them responsible through strict laws for their kids future.
@TheDeat, you avoided answer. Why the romanian team does not use a single minorities player? If my memory is still good, there are 10% Hungarians in Romania.
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TheDeath
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posted December 12, 2009 03:03 AM |
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I agree with speaking the language, because that is a form of integration. But i don't think it has anything to do with banning minarets/burkas. For one, western countries have the concept of personal freedom. Yet they are shown otherwise -- how do you expect them to integrate? That's like telling them "in France we speak french" and then banning them from attending french lessons. What kind of message do you think that gives them?
And besides, I never said Romania is paradise lol. In fact it's probably worse than France.
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Salamandre
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posted December 12, 2009 03:14 AM |
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The minarets and burqas are more of a symbol than building/cloth (if it was, this discussion would be from an architectural or fashion point of view, but it degenerated pretty fast, which shows the true nature of the reject).
I am sure that France would have nothing against building Pagodas or Budhist temples. Switzerland neither I guess. While China will not allow it (because it considers temples as a symbol too)
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xerox
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posted December 12, 2009 02:12 PM |
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Seriously who cares if there is someone that is not "pure-blooded" (that sounds so racist... and like something a Death Eater would say in Harry Potter).
How does it matter at all?
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maretti
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posted December 12, 2009 02:38 PM |
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It dosent matter. But it matters when you let a huge groupe of unejucated ignorants into your country. Ofcourse they cant get any good jobs if any at all because of their background. The crime rate among unejucated and unemployed people is much higher than in other groups and its pretty natural they feel discriminated when they are critizied and feel the need to unite. They have one thing to unit about, their religion, which ofcourse only makes things worse since it hasnt developed since the middle age and is misused in all kind of ways. They develope an anger to the society and their actions result in futher critizism and isolation. Its a vicious circle.
The solution is to raise their level in ejucation and living conditions and try to limit the religious influence. I dont think its possible in countries like France and England, their problems are simply to big. In Countries like Denmark (where I come from) and Switzerland we can still make it work but action is very much needed.
The goverments around europe snowed up badly when they let this amount of unejucated people into Europe. Should never had happend. Had it been well ejucated muslims we most likely wouldnt have a problem.
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mvassilev
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posted December 12, 2009 09:47 PM |
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TheDeath
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posted December 12, 2009 09:49 PM |
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I agree except that the government doesn't need to 'educate' them, it can just as well just cut off all support it has for them if they refuse. To prevent "leeching". And criminal offenses or assault should be punished as thus, not by banning minarets or burkas.
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