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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted September 21, 2010 11:05 AM |
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More people with irrational fears and stigmas about guns.
Do you guys walk outside and see a car and go "OMG, A CAR!!!! How can anyone with a wife and kid consider owning such a killing machine???" A car is a heck of a lot more dangerous than a gun.
Do you guys see a house with stairs and go "OMG, STAIRS!!!! How can anyone with a wife and kid consider living in a place with such a deadly apparatus???" OK, so I don't know how many houses have stairs, but by my estimate a house with stairs is approximately the same risk as a house with a gun, maybe more risk.
I will not claim that a gun is safe, but there are a LOT of things more dangerous. Some of them like a car are FAR more dangerous. A lot of jobs are more dangerous also. Like when I was a carpenter we used to go out shooting after work sometimes. When we were shooting we were relatively safe compared to when we were working. I was FAR more concerned about seriously cutting myself with a circular saw than I was about getting hurt with a gun.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 21, 2010 12:04 PM |
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buy a katana. you won't use it, but at least, it will look good in the lounge 
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted September 21, 2010 12:10 PM |
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I've looked at them on Ebay before. They are very expensive for a good one. But yea, a katana would be really cool.
I wonder what a burglar would do if I let out a primal scream and charged him with a katana raised.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted September 21, 2010 12:18 PM |
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A lot of people have used the "If there are more of them then you" argument. Here is my take on that. If a large group of people, carrying guns, are entering your house..then it won't matter if you have a weapon or not. Because they are not there to rob you, they have much worse things in mind.
Again, thieves normally do not want or expect trouble. They want to get in, get what they came for, and get out before anybody knows they are there. Watch the series "It takes a thief" you might start understanding.
Owning a gun will not change anything but one thing. The chances of a thief running. That's it. If they have ill intentions toward the people in the house, it won't matter if there is a weapon in the house or not. They have already come to harm somebody, and not having a weapon will not change that.
A weapon will increase the chances of a thief running.
People seem to imagine that you are going to walk down the street with it strapped to your side..with the western theme song playing. Yeah THAT will invite trouble. Having it to protect your home, won't change anything but the chance of a thief running. It won't increase the chance of your place being picked, it won't cause gang members to do drive byes, it won't increase the chance of you getting hurt. Because as I said, if they intend on hurting you, they did it before knowing you had said weapon. The weapon doesn't factor at all in that.
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Message received.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 21, 2010 02:50 PM |
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Quote:
Do you guys walk outside and see a car and go "OMG, A CAR!!!! How can anyone with a wife and kid consider owning such a killing machine???"
Do you guys see a house with stairs and go "OMG, STAIRS!!!! How can anyone with a wife and kid consider living in a place with such a deadly apparatus???"
Thanks. That made my morning. 
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 21, 2010 03:47 PM |
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For the record, this thread was not a joke.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 21, 2010 04:19 PM |
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Shotgun loaded with salt is your friend
My main concern would be whether the kids can get their hands on the firearm - there HAVE been such deaths before - and whether I could actually control myself while handling it, a moment's hesitation can cost you. Probably nothing that has not been mentioned before.
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted September 21, 2010 04:38 PM |
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This thread exposes the cultural differences euros and americans have towards firearms.
There are plenty of ways parents can teach their kids the sobering responsibility associated with owning a gun.
As for the practical side of having the gun next to your bed, it should go without saying the weapon is NEVER left loaded and that ammunition is safely kept away from kids. Trigger locks are a possibility. If the idea of having to unlock the trigger and stumbling around in the middle of the night for ammo doesn't suit you, one thing you can do is put shells into an empty prescription meds bottle and keep them next to the nightstand..
Edit: Another tried and true method of concealing something you don't want found is to take a book you know your kids won't touch (preferrably something deliciously ironic like Sarah Palin's Going Rogue or David Boaz's Libertarianism: A Primer), gluing the pages together, and then using an exacto knife to cut out the guts of the pages, leaving the outer edges intact. You should be able to put a few shells into your newfound hidey hole.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 21, 2010 05:14 PM |
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You kidding? Kids are experts at finding all kinds of hidden things  The book seems a pretty good bet though.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 21, 2010 05:16 PM |
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Except if it's a book with lot's of pages they will show it to their friends. "Look how big this one is!" and well, the rest is history.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 21, 2010 07:43 PM |
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Put the gun and ammo in a locked box under your bed. Put the key on your keychain. Problem solved.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted September 22, 2010 01:35 AM |
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If several people break into your house they might have a numbers advantage but you have the advantage of knowing the layout of the house and if you are smart and have time you will use a choke point such as a doorway or stairs to your advantage. And assuming you live in a suburban or urban area every moment of time you buy increases the likelyhood that the the intruders will flee for fear of the cops or that the cops will actually arrive to assist you.
You can keep a loaded gun in a gun cabinent and lock the cabinent with the key ring on your key. Let your kids see the difference between a real gun and a toy gun and teach them to shoot when young. You can teach your kids how to handle a gun responsibly.
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Revelation
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted September 22, 2010 08:16 AM |
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I took a trip to the gun store today. I was curious about child safety devices since I don't know much about them. Unfortunately the guy was busy with other customers and I didn't get his full attention so the info I got was spotty.
First thing he asked was what type of weapon (pistol, shotgun etc). I didn't know so he volunteered to tell me that shotguns were by far the best weapon for home defense. I expressed my concern about mobility in a house while carrying a full length shotgun. He showed me a short double barrel shotgun that was surprisingly short and looked easy to maneuver. I knew rifle barrels could be that short but didn't think it was legal for that length shotguns. (18 inch barrel)
He also mentioned a pistol grip shotgun that's even shorter. Hmmm, I think I'd want to try shooting it before committing on something like that.
I asked about a small woman using a short barrel shotgun. He just replied "20 gauge", meaning stick with the smaller shell.
I'd still be concerned about where to keep a shotgun in the house and how to keep it safe. A gun safe might be the only option, but there may be others that I don't know about. You can use trigger locks or other ways to disable it, but even if disabled, leaving a shotgun where a kid can easily get ahold of it and get curious about it.....
I asked about over-penetration with the 9mm. He said a hollow point should be ok and that 9mm was actually considered one of the safer rounds. He claimed that a hollow point wouldn't even penetrate a wall made of drywall. I think I'd want to investigate that claim more.
To keep a pistol safe he recommended a four finger keypad type box. So you punch in a code to open it. He said you can easily do it at night when you are half asleep.
One last thing about pump action shotguns and semi-auto pistols. When it comes to a child, I don't think a child could physically chamber a round. It takes a certain amount of strength and a quick jerking motion. I've heard about small adults and teenagers who can't do it...for now I'd consider that rumor though.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 22, 2010 08:40 AM |
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I'd speak against double barrel ones. They are inconvenient to load in a hurry and two shots really aren't that much.
Semi-auto pistol doesn't take that much force to load. It's just to pull the slide back and that doesn't have to be fast. It can just as well be slow pull.
You don't have to pump a shotgun before you first shoot since you can load the shell straight into the chamber. But to remove the old used shell and chamber on some shotguns you have really use power. So the weapon would probably jam at that point.
The type of lock doesn't really matter as long as you train to open it so it comes from your spine when you really need it and are panicking. Just repeat, repeat, repeat. When you can do it eyes closed starting from your sleeping position you're good to go.
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Binabik
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Legendary Hero
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posted September 22, 2010 09:26 AM |
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I wasn't recommending a double barrel. That's just what the guy showed me to show the minimum legal length.
I don't know anything about pump action shotguns. If the only shells were the ones stored in the shotgun, but not chambered, wouldn't you have to pump it to chamber a shell?
With my semi-auto it definitely takes some strength to chamber a round. There is absolutely no way a young girl could do it. It requires a pretty hefty grip. I doubt if someone elderly could do it either. Yes, the action can move slowly, but I've found that I can have trouble both ejecting and feeding the next round if I do it slowly. A fast jerking motions works far better. Of course it's going to depend on the gun in question though. But whether it's fast or slow it still takes a pretty hefty grip.
I didn't mean to imply that's any kind of safety measure either. But it does add an extra layer of protection.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 22, 2010 10:01 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 10:02, 22 Sep 2010.
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Quote:
If several people break into your house they might have a numbers advantage but you have the advantage of knowing the layout of the house and if you are smart and have time you will use a choke point such as a doorway or stairs to your advantage.
Several..? How often does THAT happen outside Ocean's eleven?
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted September 22, 2010 10:06 AM |
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It DOESN'T happen. Or at least it would be so extremely rare that "never" is close enough.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 22, 2010 11:24 AM |
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every day if your name is elodin
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 22, 2010 11:28 AM |
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Now now, let's not get meanies. I think he's just dragging the argument a bit more than required.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 22, 2010 11:37 AM |
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Quote:
I don't know anything about pump action shotguns. If the only shells were the ones stored in the shotgun, but not chambered, wouldn't you have to pump it to chamber a shell?
Technically, yes.
In practice when there the chamber is empty and there is no used shell to unload the pumping action might not require any more force than sliding the shell on a table.
Depends on the shotgun though.
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