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| Thread: Predictions and Arguments For 4th Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 24 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 11, 2010 08:38 AM |
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So last night I was once again mulling this over, the 4th faction.
And I think I'm changing my stance, you see, last night I decided to take a troll around my brain, and decided to review the facts in the "4th faction speculation chamber".
So I throw open the door, and am not at all surprised to still see thick woods.
But suddenly I hear a wonderful sound, elves screaming in terror, ah such sweet bliss....
Anyway.
To my surprise Stronghold is invading with the following argument:
"We bring better cultural diversity!"
Which is ironic coming from Barbarians, but they have a point.
You see, Barbarians would bring something different, I mean look at Elves and Haven, despite their differences, they think pretty much alike, both are cultures of humanoids that live in a civilized society, both share environments with similar if not identical colour palates, both are xenophobic and arrogant, believing they are superior to their neighbors, both are highly religiously devoted.
Barbarians aren't xenophobic, their tribal society as so far in every game seen perfectly fit to accept all manner of savage humanoids in their midst, they'll thrive anywhere there is food, they have very simple motivations and methods very different from the other factions.
They have a completely different religious heritage and don't seem to let it dominate their society as much.
I think Stronghold would bring more to the game, even from a gameplay standpoint.
If we're going to introduce an aggressive faction, why not let it be THE Aggressive faction?
They are an iconic faction, been with the game for 5 games now, just like Sylvan.
They contrast nicely with Necropolis and it's strong ties to magic while Haven and Inferno both seem to be hitting the balance of Might and Magic more, especially with Haven's new tendency to employ even more magical and otherwordly stuff in their army and Inferno's new found fondness for large quantities of destructive magic (according to their PDF).
I'm willing to go back on my previous stance, I think Stronghold are a better fit for 4th race then Sylvan.
Then again, this time it might just be wishful thinking, I mean I was a strong Sylvan supporter, despite hating elves and not liking the faction that much as a whole beyond that either.
But I really do think, objectively, Stronghold will fill the slot better.
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted November 11, 2010 08:49 AM |
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I'm just going to wait the announcement. Tired of speculating this. It seems that almost all the faction has a chance to be the 4th faction.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 11, 2010 08:58 AM |
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Agree MrDragon, Stronghold has a lot of favorable arguments. The fact that a Might faction helps the so called Blizzard-diversity is one of the most important in my opinion. The only thing at this point against Stronghold is that they might not wanna piss off fans and make a Heroes without elves, titans or Dungeon stuff. 
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Hakkology
Hired Hero
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posted November 11, 2010 09:14 AM |
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Why does it have to be 5 races in total ?
There are 2 evil races 2 good and 1 natural thats just not fair  .
Why don't they make it 6 and make the life beatiful for all of us!
And I still think without wizards necromancers have no equals so... Imo ofc 
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Ebonite
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 11, 2010 09:16 AM |
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Assuming that they release at least 2 exspansions to the game here is what I'm hoping for
Inferno
Necro
Haven
These 3 are in already
5th faction: I don't care what faction they release here. IMHO a new faction is always fun, discovering new tactics, abilities and the like always makes the game for me.
4th faction: this is the big one. Who to keep? Im hoping for stronghold. Like Mr dragon says, they add a different dimension for the game. For some people MIGHT is definetly way better the MAGIC. it is also far esier for me imagine one of the siblings turnig rouge and roughing it barbarian style then one of them joining the elves.
Hopefully sylvan might be released later in exspansion 1 with the dwarves. Creating a classic ELF V DWARF confrontation.
If a second exspansion is released maybe we might see the rise of the dark elves.
BUT whatever happens with the factions i do hope for (I think this might have beeen mentioned before in another thread)good and evil factions, hopefully with a twist. not just one evil faction.
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 11, 2010 11:23 AM |
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In my case:
I also opened the door although the wood is indeed thick. I heard a whisper, hardly a whisper it is a loud voice in whispering style. I followed the sounds, I knew I might get lost or totally wrong about this sound, but barely in the next depth level I found a large dark creature that I remembered somewhere, Sansvisage! I knew I heard about it somewhere. I carefully eavesdropped behind a large Elven-style tree. The sounds now is very clear. It said "Tuidhana, the times has come! My sworn enemy has gathered his forces!!! Join me! let's send our enemy to the void itself. Gather your forces! Into the Shadow! With Malassa!!!"
Suddenly I heard a beast scream, I looked up, it was a huge, huge Black Dragon even larger than the ones I remembered, Soaring the night sky as Tuidhana blew her war horn, gathering her forces while the Sansvisage, raised his sword and a number of unknown creature, the first time I ever saw raise from the shadow. Wait, I know some of them, Beholders! And suddenly.. I woke up. Dang it, I should stop smoking some crack!
In the expansion, Tuidhana declares independence and the war of bitter ashes begin...
Don't take it too seriously, it is only a joke 
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Hakkology
Hired Hero
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posted November 11, 2010 11:31 AM |
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I read your joke with enthusiasm admira, liked it .
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 11, 2010 11:39 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 11:39, 11 Nov 2010.
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@MrDRagon
The elves would spit in your general direction if they heard you compare them with the crude, savage and unsophisticated humans 
Nice one admira.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Paiazza
Known Hero
لىخ ضل
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posted November 11, 2010 04:21 PM |
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Edited by Paiazza at 16:22, 11 Nov 2010.
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Why only 5 factions and expansions, why this laziness, why this core/elite/champion thing, why only 7 creatures per race, why only 1 single evolution for each creature, why all these "whys" ? Some people want MORE and even MORE, maybe some of us want AT LEAST 10 factions (inferno, necropolis, heaven, dungeon, stronghold, fortress(swamp h3), academy, sylvan, conflux, new one, etc) and at least 10 creatures per race not 7 with at least 2 if not 3 different evolutions or, evolving once, and again, to next tier level creature equivalent.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 11, 2010 04:25 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 17:23, 11 Nov 2010.
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Quote:
@MrDRagon
The elves would spit in your general direction if they heard you compare them with the crude, savage and unsophisticated humans
Nice one admira.
Seconding the nice one, and as for elves spitting in my direction:
A: That proves my point.
B: I don't care, I'll burn their homes and abduct their women anyway.
I'll admit, I have encountered a few elves that I like, funnily enough, 3 of those have beards, which is very un-elvish of them.
Edit: Also I'd rather have 5 well tuned and balanced factions, then 10 factions that are a total mess.
Quality over Quantity.
And please don't call upgrades Evolutions... things don't evolve over the course of a Heroes game, Evolution takes millions of years.
Also, to many units per faction starts limiting what the factions can have without overlap, making factions more similar instead of less.
Edit2: And as Xerox said (right below this post) the Core/Elite/Champion system is more likely to improve gameplay, and is actually more work, now they have to balance three creatures within the same faction to have different roles but roughly the same overall strength.
Laziness, it is not!
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 11, 2010 05:10 PM |
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Personally, I think the new Core/Elite/Champion system is totally awesome.
Because in H5 a lot of creatures felt useless and weak to me. Peasants, Pixies, War dancers, Horned demons etc.
Now that will no longer be the case. Hopefully.
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Demonge
Known Hero
more than meets the eyes
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posted November 11, 2010 05:39 PM |
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Paiazza
Known Hero
لىخ ضل
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posted November 11, 2010 05:46 PM |
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I didn't meant laziness for core/elite/champion thing, i meant it for ONLY 5 factions and ONLY 7 creatures per faction with ONLY 1 single upgrade. As for the core/elite/champion thing is just a roughly reduction of 7 tiers of creatures to 3 tiers, being something like:
core = tier 2-4 creatures (tier 1 removed because were too weak)
elite = tier 4-6 creatures (those who've been around most powerful tier 4 around 4,5+)
champion = tier 6 creatures and tier 6 creatures that were a bit more like 6,5
tier 7 creatures removed because were too powerful and/or made up bosses of them
So instead of having tier 1-7 creatures we now have around tier 2-6 creatures to homogenize and balance almost all creatures so the difference between them won't be that huge.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 11, 2010 05:50 PM |
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^It's also a way to make sure you're gonna use more creatures and don't ignore the useless Imps and Zombies. They are making the creatures worthwhile so that's quite the opposite of lazy.
And like others said, it's quality over quantity, they will make each faction and hopefully every creature unique.
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Paiazza
Known Hero
لىخ ضل
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posted November 11, 2010 06:06 PM |
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"Trying to balance too much and thus failing" by over-homogenizing the creatures and maybe factions to too much will destroy the harmony of unique in it's proper sense, and the harmony of the game. It is still better to have some very weak creatures up to very strong creatures than having medium-weak, medium and medium-strong creatures, still, the best they could do is by doing hundreds even up to one thousand creatures overall in the whole game and EVERY SINGLE ONE UNIQUE.
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Mike80D
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted November 11, 2010 06:35 PM |
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Edited by Mike80D at 18:36, 11 Nov 2010.
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I don't see why the 4th faction would be Barbarians. I consider the following:
-Necromancer: Magic
-Inferno: Might
-Haven: Might
At least, that is how I see it from the whole Att/Def stat standpoint. With that in mind, I still maintain that it'll be a more Magic oriented 4th faction.
Also, I do look forward to the new creature tier system. I think that's definitely a great move.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 11, 2010 06:39 PM |
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Quote:
"Trying to balance too much and thus failing" by over-homogenizing the creatures and maybe factions to too much will destroy the harmony of unique in it's proper sense, and the harmony of the game. It is still better to have some very weak creatures up to very strong creatures than having medium-weak, medium and medium-strong creatures, still, the best they could do is by doing hundreds even up to one thousand creatures overall in the whole game and EVERY SINGLE ONE UNIQUE.
I don't even know where to begin.
Ok first, off, you can't have quantity AND quality, you have to balance them.
Odds are if they pump out more then two hundred creatures for the first installment of HoMMVI, 80% of them will be pointless and forgettable, the remaining 20% will be poorly balanced and 70% of the total amount of creatures will have similar stats and roles in combat.
Ball park figures I know, but I guarantee you, that will not be to far off.
Giving units in fewer tiers similar stat budgets will ENHANCE their roles compared to each other, it will force you to make decisions on how you're going to split your tier pool across your three creatures in that pull, this will open up more strategies.
The alternative is we buy out every tier to the max, or try too.
So boom, new mechanic that widens the scope of gameplay instead of sticking to the same narrow path.
They aren't homogenizing the creatures they are homogenizing the stat budgets of the creatures to make them more balanced.
Creatures are in fact becoming more unique by all having more abilities and traits, as well as a few new stats, for example:
The Igromir clip shows what appears to be separate defense stats for physical and magical damage, as what looks like a spell power stat.
So in addition to new units with new mechanics they are seemingly getting MORE stats.
Seeing as people like comparing stuff to different games so much, here's one.
STARCRAFT HAS THREE FACTIONS AND IS ONE OF THE BEST GAMES I EVER PLAYED!
How did they do that? by having three completely unique factions that don't have ANY units that can be compared to or is even remotely similar to ANY other.
Game development is HARD, do not under estimate game development.
Fans like us can come up with a million monsters for them to make, but getting them all to modeled, textured, animated, coded, and BALANCED, is a task that would take several hundred years to do, which is not a viable business plan.
Then not to mention, most of those will have similar roles in battle, making them redundant.
Quality over Quantity, cannot stress this enough.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 11, 2010 08:44 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 20:56, 11 Nov 2010.
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Erm... guys, in HoMM V we have quite well-balanced creatures inside most of the factions and actually very few are totally useless (and the Zombies are perfect meat shields for the vast hordes of Skeleton Archers - until TotE that is). I think you are a bit overzealous when it comes to praising the new tier system and cursing the old.
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Demonge
Known Hero
more than meets the eyes
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posted November 11, 2010 09:25 PM |
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The old one has done an impressive work.
We all agree with that.
Maybe it is time for it to get some rest and let the new one give new blood to the core system?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 11, 2010 09:59 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 22:01, 11 Nov 2010.
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Sure, we'll give it a try but I am slightly concerned that they got themselves into a muddle because now they will have to balance the creatures from each tier not only with the same tier from the other factions, but also with the rest of the creatures from the same tier in the same faction (what a nice sentence, isn't it?). I.e. balancing twice. There was something like that before too, but not so... hm, pronounced. Let's hope they know what they are doing.
By the way, I am curious whether the Champion will be roughly as powerful as the tier 7s before or not. It is the only tier which does not have to conform with the stats and the abilities of other creatures from the same tier.
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