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| Thread: Predictions and Arguments For 4th Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 ... 20 21 22 23 24 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 03, 2010 07:31 PM |
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Quote:
True, but as far as I see it, they can only put Crag Hack in Stronghold(Orcs) or Fortress(Dwarves). Even though the ideals of Stronghold match 100% with Crag Hack the iconic hero, the fact that it is an orc nation makes it hardly a choice. Then we have the dwarves which are also warrior like people. So maybe we won't have the old Crag Hack (which in any case would be impossible since we have different world wrt to Heroes1-4) but we could get someone which will have the same spirit as Crag Hack (in "another continuum" as they say  ). Moreover the name itself does not have an orcish sonority (which is klingonian like) but matches sonority of dwarves faction (scandinavian, northern).
Personally I don't see his name really fitting amongst the established dwarven naming trends while the orc naming trends seem less fixed.
His name also sounds brutish, even violent.
Changing his race to Orc from Human seems like a faster/better fit.
Or maybe he stays a savage human who was perhaps raised or accepted into Orc society and rose to a Hero position based on his merits.
The heroes series, traditionally has had racial variance in the heroes of the faction, heck in Heroes III you had human heroes leading the Fortress, Dungeon, Conflux and Rampart factions despite the fact that none of them really had anything to do with them.
Now Heroes V did make many factions highly monotone, especially the Dwarves who count only 1 non-dwarf in their 7 unit line-up.
In a recent interview though, Erwan reminded the interviewer that these were not RACES but FACTIONS specifically, meaning it's more about the culture and ideology of it's members then their species.
So, in my OPINION, you are perfectly entitled to your own, I find a Stronghold Crag Hack significantly more probable by an extremely large portion.
Biggest reason being that making him a dwarf or part of the HVFortress faction would mean changing his ideology or spirit to a greater extent then keeping him with a faction that shares it.
On a different point:
If HVFortress and Stronghold return, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THOSE UNUSED MYTHOLOGICAL CREATURES, LESS DWARVES, LESS ORCS (and less elves for both "elf" factions) AND MORE BEAUTIFUL BEASTIES!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 03, 2010 08:22 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 20:23, 03 Oct 2010.
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Quote:
If there were proofs than we would have nothing to discuss because things would be clear. At the moment we have some pieces of the puzzle and to this extent some things are more probable than others but nothing is for sure. For instance the idea that nagas would be the new faction: it's not a fact but it's a hell lot more probable than any other ideas.
This I can agree with, the Naga are IMO the most likely group for the 'new' faction, but saying the the 4th faction is definitely going to by Dungeon or Sylvan isn't a call that should be made, especially not when the alternative is Academy.
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odium
Known Hero
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posted October 03, 2010 08:26 PM |
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Ok, but then how would you see the plot evolving with respect to Faceless without touching the dark elves/elves but with Academy in?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 03, 2010 08:38 PM |
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Quote:
Ok, but then how would you see the plot evolving with respect to Faceless without touching the dark elves/elves but with Academy in?
You don't necessarily need an entire faction to present a conflict. We don't know for sure that the Angels will be part of Haven, so why should we assume that the Faceless will be part of (an eventual) Dungeon?
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 03, 2010 08:39 PM |
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Quote:
Ok, but then how would you see the plot evolving with respect to Faceless without touching the dark elves/elves but with Academy in?
An expansion.
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odium
Known Hero
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posted October 03, 2010 08:45 PM |
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Edited by odium at 20:50, 03 Oct 2010.
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Quote:
An expansion.
Ok but this is from the vanilla H6:
"A legendary Archangel General, killed during the war of the Elder races, is resurrected. Under the cover of preparations for the upcoming Demon invasion, he plots to recover his powers and take control of Ashan while eradicating his ancient enemies."
Where ancient enemies are the Faceless.
Quote:
We don't know for sure that the Angels will be part of Haven, so why should we assume that the Faceless will be part of (an eventual) Dungeon?
Actually they are with Haven for a long time, more precisely looking at the timeline since 28-40 YSD Wars of fire: the first demon invasion.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 03, 2010 09:02 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 21:02, 03 Oct 2010.
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Quote:
Ok but this is from the vanilla H6:
"A legendary Archangel General, killed during the war of the Elder races, is resurrected. Under the cover of preparations for the upcoming Demon invasion, he plots to recover his powers and take control of Ashan while eradicating his ancient enemies."
Where ancient enemies are the Faceless.
Plenty of options, some of them aren't even mutualy exclusive.
1) Maybe the Faceless aren't part of a playable faction. (I hope this isn't true.)
2) Maybe we won't reach the climax of that particular aspect of the story in MMHVI "vanilla".
3) Maybe they are going for a "behind the scenes" approach for the Faceless, working through proxies and minions, going for the old fashioned "great unknowable evil" angle.
4) Maybe the faceless aren't directly associated with the Dungeon faction, at least not yet, heck even in Heroes V you can't really say there is a DIRECT association between Dark Elves and the Faceless, they made a pact, not an alliance, Heroes V has Dungeon in it, but Faceless are barely even mentioned, let alone seen.
5) Maybe the faceless are part of the 5th unannounced faction.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 03, 2010 09:09 PM |
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Considering academy I don't think you can hope much, mostly due to terrain limitations. There are indeed a lot of hints but many can be misleading, it is my understanding that ubi has been planning the future factions right from the start. Also trying to guess considering where a human hero could be native is a dead end, don't you think that if you created a storyline you'd first pick the factions and then make them fit in the storyline? Even if something seems a bit off at first glance there are numerous ways to make it work. Finally the lore is incomplete, as such it leaves a lot of room for unrecorded events. It is unlikely that ubi would pick a timeline that would restrict the appearance of certain factions, they do plan ahead.
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Fool
Hired Hero
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posted October 03, 2010 09:25 PM |
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Yeah, Academy doesn't really fit given the released information. The Solymir hint probably means it will be in an expansion, though.
In which case, I change my vote to Fortress, in light of the Crag Hack hint. Seems to be the only remaining one that fits. (Although if Necropolis is considered neutral, Dungeon may well be a possibility -- given that the dark elves and wood elves haven't fully split yet, I don't know how that'll work, though. Perhaps neither are even mentioned in the vanilla edition at all, and are only brought to focus in an expansion, similar to the orcs in H5? That could make room for a Dungeon-esque faction that is headed by the Faceless and separate from the dark elves...)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 03, 2010 09:29 PM |
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Now that would be an interesting twist. I love the blackies but an alternative dungeon would be cool.
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Dexter
Known Hero
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posted October 03, 2010 09:35 PM |
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Quote:
... they do plan ahead.
I would say that this is one of the most important quotations of the day. Especially in correspondence to the facbook entry mentioning Crag Hack and Sandro.
The fact that both of them are mentioned doesn't mean that we're going to see both of them in Heroes VI, especially in the basic version of the game. And remember that it's a new universe, so if you see them, they won't be the very same heroes as in the previous games.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 03, 2010 10:05 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 22:07, 03 Oct 2010.
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Quote:
Actually they are with Haven for a long time, more precisely looking at the timeline since 28-40 YSD Wars of fire: the first demon invasion.
For all we know they are Haven's allies mainly against the regular demons incursions but I don't think they fight alongside the humans in every conflict. With the Faceless being enemies of the Angels, they may decide to go against them on their own, just to make sure that their "all too human" allies won't spoil the whole operation.
I don't think the announced terrains can be considered a restriction. Academy was previously based on sand and snow terrain, now it could be on, say, autumn plains. Not necessarily of course. But this is not a faction that is "bonded" to its native lands like Inferno to lava and Dungeon to subterranean caves.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 03, 2010 10:10 PM |
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They are a restriction, trust me on this. Change is still possible but they would not do something drastic such as snow to sand.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 03, 2010 10:25 PM |
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Quote:
They are a restriction, trust me on this. Change is still possible but they would not do something drastic such as snow to sand.
I'm not really convinced, I just really don't see one of those five children belonging to Dwarves or Nagas. Plus we would need at least two magic-based factions or the whole thing will go to pot. Academy (and Dungeon) is my wager.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 03, 2010 10:49 PM |
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Come on, you know how many plot devices there are for that. Diplomacy, an heir sent to an ally under urgent circumstances, the hero finding some sacred object that would make him important to said faction, an oracle/vision telling x faction to trust his leadership.. Or even him gaining a small group of followers, nobody said he would command a whole nation. As for the magic argument the factions are not going to be as we know them, could very well be that sylvan, inferno or whatever faction has greatly increased their magical potential - if not in general at least through their magic heroes. Or even that the new faction is pretty good at spellcasting. Who can guess?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 03, 2010 10:57 PM |
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You know as well as I do there's going to be way more emphasis on magic this time around. There's no way in hell that could possibly be achieved with four-and-a-half classically might-based factions. As for previous terrains, they may as well be irrelevant. I mean, this affects the entire game - gameplay takes precedence over lore.
Besides, even the lore released so far counters your argument. So you think this fifth half-brother child is going to be half-snake or half-dwarf or half-lizard? Seriously now; nobody would take the storyline for real in such an instance. Just look back at the hints. If Elves and Mages aren't involved, it's bust.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 03, 2010 11:08 PM |
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Oh please, terrain is aesthetic not a gameplay thing.
Now about the magic in factions. Haven and inferno do have increased magical capabilities, necro is of course an adept caster. Which means that a faction with a might focus could easily fit, no? What the remaining could be is anybody's guess, could be a pure faction or another balanced one. Or this could not even matter and we are just thinking too much
Like I said the hero does not need to be native. You could call it a bit pretentious that a haven guy rules all but hey that could easily be arranged. Another example of how much Hollywood has rotted our minds, yay for white supremacy. Knight in shining armour gives salvation to all!
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 03, 2010 11:16 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 00:02, 04 Oct 2010.
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I suppose you're not going to see eye-to-eye with me on this. Haven and Inferno have been almost universally might-based since their origin and having just necromancers on their own would be crazy.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted October 03, 2010 11:34 PM |
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Edited by Danny at 23:36, 03 Oct 2010.
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I'm liking the hints/suggestions by Elvin here. 
If all factions are going to have both a might and a magic hero, I'd say it's kinda irrelevant that Haven or Inferno were perceived as "mainly might" in the past, they seem to be changing these stuff up. The 5th faction could still be mainly magic-driven so Wizards would be redundant.
The Angels are part of the Haven lineup, Erwan confirmed that in like his first interview about H6.
Also, all 5 siblings are human from Haven so they will be linking them to factions in other ways than being "half-whatevers".
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 03, 2010 11:41 PM |
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Personally, seeing as we have one of the five children in charge of at least some Inferno forces I find it very hard to imagine any reason why we couldn't fit the two remaining children in positions of some power at the remaining two factions.
Back in Heroes III we had LOADS of heroes who were not native races to their faction, humans being the prime offenders.
Human Fortress Heroes
Human Dungeon Heroes
Human Conflux Heroes
Human Rampart Heroes
Human Inferno Heroes
Seeing as the Inferno son doesn't seem to be hooked up with the faction by choice but by necessity, we can rule out that all of them are associated with their faction through conventional means.
Hypothetically speaking, lets take Stronghold.
Child 4 is captured and enslaved, fights brutal gladiatorial matches against barbaric beasts and warriors, rises to the position of champion, even earning his own freedom.
He commands great respect and fame amongst the orcs and can assemble a following.
Boom, Human hero in charge of A Stronghold army. (Not the entire faction.)
Child 5 is rescued by a influential leader of the mystery faction who happens to not have an heir of his own, he decides to teach the 5th child the ways of his people, their values, their religion.
Child 5 shows great skill and talent for warfare and tactics, repeatedly serving as adviser to his rescuer or associates, eventually he is trusted to handle a high ranking military position.
Bam, Human hero in charge of A ???? army.
I made that up in 5 minutes, they are cliches, but they work.
A professional will not be as ham-fisted and make a perfectly sound story for the situation.
The point being: You don't have to be the race of the faction you're leading, not even Heroes I had all heroes of the faction be the native race.
Heroes V is in fact I think the only one in the series where Inferno, Dungeon, Rampart(Sylvan), "Fortress" and Stronghold didn't have human heroes.
But Heroes V thought it was perfectly fine to have 6 out of 7 creatures in one faction be different variations of the same species.
TO MANY ELVES, TO MANY ORCS, TO MANY DWARVES.
Haven has always had this problem but I've grown used to how bland and boring that faction is.
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