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| Thread: Predictions and Arguments For 4th Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 10 20 24 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 06, 2010 09:20 AM |
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May they water your speculation 
Aha, water, a hint at the Nagas! 
Just kidding.
I personally don't care which factions they put in vanilla as long as I get 10 factions in the end (8 from H5 + Nagas and Free Cities/Sylath faction) 
But, for the topic's sake, I voted Academy. The reason for it is because I wanted the plot to go to a direction where we would have a brother vs brother conflict (Anton vs Kiril) AND a sister vs sister conflict (Anastasya vs the 4th Wizard female child).
However, in the light of all your posts, I changed my mind. Stronghold and Fortress are both plausible candidates for the 4th faction, along with favorites Sylvan and Dungeon (both which I firmly believe will need to wait till the expansion). If we look at the terrains, there is no snow to fit the Dwarves (although they might use underground, but it's a stretch). Using the system of elimination, with jungle belonging to the mysterious 5th faction (aka Nagas), we are left with the autumn plains. And what terrain did Orcs use in H5? Oh, look - autumn plains (or steppes if you prefer) 
I don't think they are going to balance factions around good vs evil, since in Ashan's universe, only Demons are truly evil, others - arguably. Malassa, although embodiment of shadow, is still the daughter of the Dragon of Order. Barbarians are no longer evil like in the "old days". Even Necromancers have reasonable beliefs, morally ambiguous to say the least, but not evil. Rest are purely good. Nagas are said to be peaceful and intelligent. Some would call them lorekeepers and there's you magic faction.
Something I have secretly been thinking but am worried that they won't do, heck even demons in the Ashan don't sound horribly EVIL (as a species, many of their upper echelons are though), they are rebelling against their imprisonment.
Of course EVIL being a subjective term to begin with... lets not get into that.
However from a marketing stand point it would make sense to throw at least 1 additional "Good" faction in there, that might be the 5th, or the 4th, because in addition to fans who are familiar with it's world and denizens, there are also gamers who've never picked up a HoMM game before that just might this time around.
It all depends then I'd say on how they present the races.
If it's worth anything, I do hope they do not go the good vs evil route but rather shades of gray.
Another thing many people speculate based on is the Might/Magic ratio.
And in this they presume:
Haven - Might
Inferno - Might
Necropolis - Magic
4th (or 5th) - Magic
5th (or 4th) - Balance
However, quoted directly from the inferno PDF:
"Demon magic is drawn from raw chaos and destructive by nature. Overall demons show an UNSURPASSED ability to use the most negative aspects of all kinds of magic. (Direct damage, damage over time, debuffs)."
And later on
"Strengths: BEST direct damage magic, good mobility *snip*"
Seeing as all factions are getting two hero classes, we probably won't see factions leaning heavily one way or another.
Even if they do, like in Heroes III they will then probably still have access to some basic forms of magic. in their own towns.
(like how Fortress and Stronghold had mage guilds in H3 but could only build them up to level 3 guilds, enough to get the job done, but not with all the goodies Dungeon and Tower got.)
Mind you, some interesting information can be mined here.
Warlocks, traditionally in the series, have been known for offensive spellcasting, if Demons are now the top-dog in the direct nuking, at least for the vanilla release, it's another possible clue that Dungeon might not be back (yet).
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Jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted October 06, 2010 01:46 PM |
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Seeing as all factions are getting two hero classes, we probably won't see factions leaning heavily one way or another.
I completely agree with you. I doubt any faction will excel to too far an extent in either might or magic. Being able to choose whether your hero is a might or magic hero definitely implies, to me at least, that all factions will be competent in both might and magic.
This also means that even if we do get the wizards that they will probably not be like any of the wizards we have had in the past. Actually, I can't say that because I don't really know what the wizards are like in H5 - but whatever wizards they made would have to not have too high of an emphasis on magic. There would need to be more of a balance somehow.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 06, 2010 02:17 PM |
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Remember H3? All races had might and magic heroes but you could never expect a heretic to ever come close to a warlock's magical power nor an alchemist to match a barbarian's strength. I do not know current class primary skill advancement but I am fairly positive that will also be the case. Also given that each class will have its own 'skillwheel' there will be a greater amount of variation.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 06, 2010 02:18 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 14:25, 06 Oct 2010.
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Quote:
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Seeing as all factions are getting two hero classes, we probably won't see factions leaning heavily one way or another.
I completely agree with you. I doubt any faction will excel to too far an extent in either might or magic. Being able to choose whether your hero is a might or magic hero definitely implies, to me at least, that all factions will be competent in both might and magic.
This also means that even if we do get the wizards that they will probably not be like any of the wizards we have had in the past. Actually, I can't say that because I don't really know what the wizards are like in H5 - but whatever wizards they made would have to not have too high of an emphasis on magic. There would need to be more of a balance somehow.
Guesses for the "Might Hero Wizard".
A Rakshaha as a hero, might make a cool Might hero choice.
Maybe a Wizard guiding a powerful and unique Golem, or maybe the Golem itself possesses magical sentience. (Giants and Titans strike me as sentient constructs.)
Names?
Mage Knight (Simple, but descriptive.)
Enforcer (seeing as they have a variety of magical slaves and beasts, the might hero could be sort of a "policing" part of their culture, to ensure compliance from their servants.)
*Alchemist (like in Heroes III)
No I can't think of any more on the fly, thinking up a Might Hero for Wizard/Tower/Academy is a toughy.
I'd place my bet with Alchemist.
Edit: True, the faction might lean, but seeing as Inferno according to the PDF will be unrivaled in inflicting damage through magic yet at the same seem much more of a "might oriented" faction.
Course, maybe H6 Inferno will be quite magical.
Personally I'd say Inferno isn't going for a spot on the Might/Magic spectrum but the Offense/Defense spectrum.
Then again, their play style both in H5 (how I play them at least) and as described in the PDF, suggests they take it slow and soften their opponents first with ranged attacks, magic and summons before moving in for the kill, which strikes me as a more defensive, or rather, unit conserving approach.
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted October 07, 2010 12:14 AM |
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PhoenixFlare
Hired Hero
Rebirth
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posted October 07, 2010 08:28 AM |
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Remember H3? All races had might and magic heroes but you could never expect a heretic to ever come close to a warlock's magical power nor an alchemist to match a barbarian's strength. I do not know current class primary skill advancement but I am fairly positive that will also be the case. Also given that each class will have its own 'skillwheel' there will be a greater amount of variation.
*sips on the "water" Cepheus mentioned but which Elvin graciously swapped with tea*
I hope I'm not prodding too much, but it is in my interest (and probably a lot of people's as well) that the Might and Magic classes of a particular faction are not pigeonholed into a niche by this unique skill-wheel each of them possess. Of course, a Barbarian will always be more physically powerful than a Wizard, but I think it would be reasonable to let a Wizard have some sort of physical skills/attributes/abilities in their skill-wheel as well since ... well, most Wizards will know that they'd need to at least learn some sort of basic physical self-defense in case their magic somehow fails. 
P/S: Come to think of it, this would probably be one of the reasons the factions are limited as of now. Making unique factions and unique skill-wheels for two classes of one faction would be a tough cookie if you insanely start with seven or eight original factions.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 07, 2010 09:30 AM |
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My theory is there will be some overlap between most might heroes and some overlap between most magic heroes, probably even a few small overlapping areas between all of em.
Lets have a look at the old skill system.
Logistics, Luck and Leadership will probably be a development choice for all of em.
We can presume all magic classes will have at least some elemental magic skills based on their faction or all of them.
We can presume might heroes will probably have better access to Offense, Defense and possibly Warmachines.
Every faction, possibly every class will have at least 1 unique set of skills to advance like in Heroes V.
Even if each class only had their faction specific skillset and a few unique perks We'd probably still have a LOT of tactical variety.
My guess is the Devs are a little more ambitious then that though, reading through the faction PDFs again, it mentions Hellknights have VARIOUS chaotic abilitieS and Paladins have "MiracleS".
Going by the plural, I'm reasonably hopeful it's not 1 signature ability.
In fact, the Haven and Inferno PDF make it sound like Might Heroes might not actually cast any magic, but have different abilities, some of which might duplicate magical effects. (the "miracles" are mentioned to duplicate light magic effects.)
I do hope however I could still make a Necromancer specializing in buffing my Vampires with things like Bloodlust, Stoneskin and Haste.
Or a Knight (or Cleric) that opens up with a mass Slow to give me more time to set up a defensive formation and soften up the enemy with ranged attacks.
Or a Demon Lord (or Hell Knight or Heretic or Demon Sorceress) that drops down a Land Mines spell and herds the enemy over them with gated units and obstacles.
To name a few.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 07, 2010 12:09 PM |
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Magic oriented heroes will of course have access to some might skills, they will just be limited compared to the faction's might heroes.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 07, 2010 12:36 PM |
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This is getting too off-topic, but do we know to what extent these "customizable" heroes will have access to certain skills? For example - in HoMM V a Demon Lord has a high chance for Attack and low for Enlightenment. In MMH VI there will be faction-specific skills, but will the heroes have equal access to the "general" skills no matter the alignment?
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted October 08, 2010 10:52 AM |
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So Kujin like characters will be shamans now and not barbarians?
Will they be able to learn spells or shouts?
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Hakkology
Hired Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 11:10 AM |
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Academy of course, we need necromancers equal. But it could come with a different name, Wizards now that would be a good change.
Elves would be a lot better with dark elves.
Why do people want nagas as a new race ? Come on, they are wizard's loyal servants.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 08, 2010 11:35 AM |
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Not in this world
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 11:39 AM |
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From the Q&A posted on Facebook:
2. From the content you have released about the factions specifications, we have figured out that you did some restructuring in magic aspects as well, but we are not sure in exactly what direction and to what extension. We are aware that you cannot tell too much about it but could you just tell us is the certain arcana of magic closely involved to the each faction and is the only one available or is it possible to create Haven hero with brilliance in destructive and black magic?
What we can tell you so far is that there’ll be 7 magic schools: The 6 elementary schools (Air, Water, Fire, Earth, Light, Darkness) plus the seventh one, Primordial. You’ll hear more about the details later.
I guess every faction gets their own magic school:
Light - Haven
Darkness - Necropolis
Air - Academy?
Earth - Sylvan
Fire - Inferno
Water - Naga faction
Unless I'm wrong about Air, I guess the initial speculation about Dark Elves being axed and either Elves or Wizards saved for the expansion are correct.
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odium
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 12:01 PM |
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Edited by odium at 12:05, 08 Oct 2010.
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Light - Haven
Darkness - Necropolis
Air - Academy?
Earth - Sylvan
Fire - Inferno
Water - Naga faction
Unless I'm wrong about Air, I guess the initial speculation about Dark Elves being axed and either Elves or Wizards saved for the expansion are correct.
I'm positive that they mentioned the fact that in the world of Ashan there are 10 factions. 8 from H5, 1 added in H6, and another to be revealed in further developments. Looking at the timeline, humans (Falcon Empire) used to be with the church of Air until the Angels took refuge and changed their alignment to Light (and changed the state into Holy Falcon Empire). However, part of the people were reluctant to change their religion so they found a new state (or a coalition of cities): the Free Cities of the east. In my opinion, the most probable Air followers will be related to the Free Cities.
Moreover, looking at the H5 desctiption of Wizzards we have the following: "Wizards do not view the dragons as gods, merely as more powerful beings. With enough study and experimentation, they too will achieve the power of the dragons" and "Core philosophy: No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, Power is Freedom”.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 12:08 PM |
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Quote:
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Light - Haven
Darkness - Necropolis
Air - Academy?
Earth - Sylvan
Fire - Inferno
Water - Naga faction
Unless I'm wrong about Air, I guess the initial speculation about Dark Elves being axed and either Elves or Wizards saved for the expansion are correct.
I'm positive that they mentioned the fact that in the world of Ashan there are 10 factions. 8 from H5, 1 added in H6, and another to be revealed in further developments. Looking at the timeline, humans (Falcon Empire) used to be with the church of Air until the Angels took refuge and changed their alignment to Light (and changed the state into Holy Falcon Empire). However, part of the people were reluctant to change their religion so they found a new state (or a coalition of cities): the Free Cities of the east. In my opinion, the most probable Air followers will related to the Free Cities.
Moreover, looking at the H5 desctiption of Wizzards we have the following: "Wizards do not view the dragons as gods, merely as more powerful beings. With enough study and experimentation, they too will achieve the power of the dragons" and "Core philosophy: No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, Power is Freedom”.
Wasn't sure about humans with church of Air, but I don't see that being materialized in the game, how are they gonna differ two human factions, other than one of them not having Angels?
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odium
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 12:12 PM |
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Edited by odium at 12:36, 08 Oct 2010.
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Yeah, it does not sound as a good choice for me either but at least for now this is what results from the timeline.
Later edit:
Also Fire is not with Inferno. Fire is with the Dwarves since the follow the elemental dragon of fire Arkath.
Darkness is with the Faceless and later with the Dark Elves.
Inferno (demons) are the offsprings of the Dragon of Chaos. Necropolis is until now one of the three races (together with Academy and Inferno) that does not follow one of the elemental dragons. They follow a "twisted" form of Dragon of Order.
So to sum it up things go like this:
Dragon of Order (Asha)
Dragon of Light(Elrath): Haven
Dragon of Darkness(Malassa): Faceless and later Dark Elves
Dragon of Water (Shalassa): Probably Naga faction
Dragon of Fire (Arkath): Dwarves
Dragon of Earth (Sylana): Elves
Dragon of Air (Sylath): until now it results that Free Cities
Necromancers don't follow any elemental dragon but a twisted form of the Dragon of Order
Dragon of Chaos (Urgash): Demons
Finally, Wizards don't follow anyone.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 12:51 PM |
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That is all correct, but seems the game had already gone beyond the elder races=elements concept (Angels were Light and Humans were Air originally) so I'd assume the magic schools won't be directly linked to these stuff either. Necropolis is definitely going to be dark magic (nothing else fits), even if Darkness belongs to Faceless/Dark Elves.
So I expect the respective magic schools to be linked to certain factions due to gameplay purposes and not because of the lore. Also, with these schools they wouldn't be able to assign anything to Dungeon so I guess it won't even be considered for an expansion.
Air is still up for a debate, then again a non-traditional magic faction like Stronghold could still be there so they might save BOTH Air & Earth for expansions.
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odium
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 01:00 PM |
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I believe that you shouldn't think at the magic schools in the the way Heroes 5 had them (related to their purpose). As far as I understood the schools will be 6 elemental plus one primordial (chaos+order). Each elemental school won't have a particular purpose but have any type of spells (buffs, debuffs, summoning and direct damage). Anyway there is another thread about this things so we are going a bit off-topic 
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 08, 2010 01:56 PM |
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To bring it back on topic: I don't think we can guess factions based on elemental magics, even if there is a link, it is quite possible some might share the same element, seeing as for as far as we know there are around 10 (not necessarily playable) factions in Ashan (possibly more), it is impossible for each to have its own element without adding another 3.
So I'm standing by my suspicions that Sylvan is the 4th town, even if it spoils an elf v elf expansion.
Besides we could easily be dealing the the dissension of the elves before they introduce dungeon, the campaign vanilla elf campaign ending then foreshadowing dungeon's "founding" by dark elves in the expansion.
Afterall, the elves didn't split off and then instantly turned into dark elves, they split off for a few years before they got cornered on all sides and then turned to the Faceless and their pact.
Maybe the 4th child somehow is involved in this whole affair.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 08, 2010 01:59 PM |
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Why would you consider each school as being faction exclusive..?
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