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| Thread: Can people change ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT» |
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 10, 2011 07:25 PM |
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Can people change ?
Do you think people can actually change ?
There is what i refer to as a change "applied by outer factors" such as "traumatic experience", "discovering god" or "mental disease", there is also a change of going from no confidence to having confidence (but that's pretty much a facial change and not an actual one).
- Basically the question is whether you think people can CHOOSE to change their primal traits such as feeling empathy for example ? Can people go from caring to not caring by choice ? Can people learn how to shut off their emotions, to change their instincts, the way they react to things (on an emotional level not an actual response as seen by the outside world - saying I don't care and actually not caring are two different things after all) ?
Thoughts ? Experiences (with self/others) ?
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted May 10, 2011 07:56 PM |
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I was about to answer this when i re-read your post...
"Basically the question is whether you think..."
You almost caught me there.  I wouldn't have seen it if I didn't re-read it. Are you asking if some people think people can change?
Because there are people out there who do and people out there who don't.
Are you actually asking for that, or something else?
____________
...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 10, 2011 08:00 PM |
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I don't think so. I think people that claim they are able to change really never had certain emotions to begin with and are only acting naturally when they claim they have changed and are only acting that way.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted May 10, 2011 08:05 PM |
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People can get more mature, or be forced by society or the local peer group to behave in a certain manner.
But really? People never change.
Sure, you might get changed by a new imperialsm(hard solid evidence) because it will always sway over personal evidence, or you get a hand into a really interisting idea.
HOWEVER, in order to take in a new idea, you must be compitable with the idea in the first place, unless the idea is imprinted on you via peer pressure(example: Your join something because your friends do, and it is not that bad, hence you don't leave even if you are incompatible).
So my answer is that you can grow up, but you can't change radically.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 10, 2011 08:08 PM |
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Quote:
I was about to answer this when i re-read your post...
"Basically the question is whether you think..."
You almost caught me there. I wouldn't have seen it if I didn't re-read it. Are you asking if some people think people can change?
Because there are people out there who do and people out there who don't.
Are you actually asking for that, or something else?
Hehe, Asked whether you think people are capable of changing, sort of a "can a tiger change its stripes" do you think we can change ? actually change who we are and not just the facial stuff.
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wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
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posted May 10, 2011 08:10 PM |
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Answer: Yes.
Reason for answer: I was very negative and depressed and stuff, really not a good person in general. I made an effort to change once I met my girl and now I am a completely different person 
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 10, 2011 08:11 PM |
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Edited by smithey at 20:15, 10 May 2011.
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@ del diablo and william, basically you think we are all wired in a certain way and there is nothing we can do about it ?
edit : @ wog_edn, Love when introduced into the equation just emphasizes certain aspects of your persona you were previously unaware of, IMO, Do you really think it changed the person you are ? If we take it away from you is it impossible to think you might get back to your own self as you have described yourself ? Love is a drug, temporary insanity if you would prefer
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wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
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posted May 10, 2011 08:19 PM |
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Well I don't know if "temporary" is over two years now
I know I would turn sortof back to my old self, more aggressive and stuff ... but I've experienced so much these last few years it has changed the way I view stuff, which again has changed who I am. Experience creates changes in your personality, that's just the way it is.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted May 10, 2011 08:25 PM |
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smithey: That depends on what you mean by "do something about it".
I can get more social, get more expeience of being social hence, and then becoming some memetic sex god if i had the needed looks.
But that is not something I want to do, so I would not likely do that.
I could get depressed, get into a total isolation, and then behave extremely weird as i realize more of my true self as I recover.
But even if I do something like that, the innital part of me never changes.
There is things that irks me, and unless it is caused because of my lack of knowledge, those things will not change.
Another note: Never mind social indoctrination, and that the human mind is a very fragile thing if one can grasp it.....
One can never change something that has been imprinted for too long, unless one forgets it.
So basically I can change my entire outer apparence, and the way the world perceives me, but I can't really change me. However, "me" tends to be a quite small core compared to how one interacts with the world.
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted May 10, 2011 08:28 PM |
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Yes we can change. But how? I am going to guess that is what you meant.
All I can say is it requires a perception that is gained that was not there to begin with. Sadly, unless you have had this occur, it doesn't seem possible. So more than that can be said infinitely different ways, and really not mean anything until that new vision is gained, and of course followed. Because no matter what new thing we see, if we do nothing about it, then there can be no change.
____________
...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 10, 2011 08:31 PM |
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I think certain aspects of us can change. We can be shy and turn into really sociable people like me for an example. But one thing I can't change about myself is my anger. Things like that are hard coded I think. Some people claim to change the way they were in certain things like showing no emotions and all but I don't think that's possible. Either you have emotions or you don't and people who claim they did but now don't never really had it in the first place.
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 10, 2011 08:32 PM |
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What you're saying though is love (outer factor and not your choice) when introduced has caused you to change the way you look at the world, you have simply adopted to the previously unknown situation (love in your case), what you're describing if I got it right is "I was unhappy hence I was mad at the world, fell in love, experienced happiness = love the world"... That's not really changing your primal traits, you simply encountered a feeling you were previously unaware of, the same thing as experiencing loss (trauma) finding god (moment of clarity) etc... Finding love and becoming a better man isn't really what I had in mind with my question but appreciate the answer... 
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 10, 2011 08:44 PM |
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Edited by smithey at 20:47, 10 May 2011.
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Don't claim I have all the answers I was merely asking a question
I'll try to explain what I meant in a better manner -
I went through an unusal life hence adopted a sort of a chameloen approach to life, I can get along with everybody.
The way I see it even though I was a shy person at some stages of my life I am a charismatic person.. question - can a non charismatic person become charismatic ? When I hear of "child molestation" I get extremely angry and feel like actually killing the man responsible... question - Is it possible to not feel that way ?
Basically can a person choose to change those traits that make him who he is or are we stuck with the cards we were dealt, thats the big question, I have yet to encounter a person who has done so...
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 10, 2011 08:46 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 20:56, 10 May 2011.
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Quote:
All I can say is it requires a perception that is gained that was not there to begin with. Sadly, unless you have had this occur, it doesn't seem possible. So more than that can be said infinitely different ways, and really not mean anything until that new vision is gained, and of course followed. Because no matter what new thing we see, if we do nothing about it, then there can be no change.
I'm not sure I really understand, but if you view things a certain way, you can try to analyze them as long as you want and you'll still see them through the same glasses. I'm not sure you can force yourself to change your view, it would rather create a resistance on the contrary, no?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 10, 2011 08:49 PM |
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Yes. People can change, with some help.
And that's why it is wrong to put criminals in prison for their entire lifes, something which is also quite inhumane as we know nothing else than that we live once.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
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posted May 10, 2011 08:49 PM |
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I have to agree with Will on that, I too am an aggressive person ... when it comes to that part I've just thought myself to keep it under control. I see it as a weakness giving in to emotions when you don't want them, and I don't accept weakness 
And no that is not what I meant. I meant that I used to hate everything cause stuff had never gone my way, I've had a really really tough life growing up. Then one good thing happened and bit by bit I managed to look more positive on the world in general. Though many parts of it really suck there's nothing to do about that. I just have found out that staying positive makes things easier, which is very far from anything I used to be like in any way before. What I am saying is that through willpower anyone can change, they just have to put their mind to it. It's either choice or experience, and in my case it's both.
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted May 10, 2011 08:50 PM |
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[To William] I understand that some things seem hardcoded into us. But one thing about us human beings is we are capable of adapting because of the inherent divinity within us. (Not going into that at this time, but it is something I know is true.)
There is nothing in our characters that cannot be overcome. Perhaps it is truly a challenge or a trial for us, and is something we slog through for nearly our whole lives to work to change. If anything like that were true, then we would simply be like the planet Camazotz. (hope I spelled that right!)
In the book A Wrinkle in Time, Meg, Charles, and Calvin end up in Camazotz to save Meg and Charles' father (I forget his name atm, sadly). The see that EVERY SINGLE CHILD on a city street is bouncing a ball identical to every other ball on the street in the exact same way, except for one child. They are ostracized and shunned, and we even see later that this same child is being forced to bounce a ball just like the other children had, but is screaming in pain every time it bounces.
There are some things in life you have to accept if you wish to continue along certain paths. If you wish to learn math, often you have to accept that something is true and learn to see how that is. Sometimes we are blessed with insight and can see why, while we are learning. I know we are able to know some things before we learn them in this life because we already knew them.
In order to change, you have to be willing to be led to, and accept a power higher than your own. If you do not, then you are always going to be limited by what you are actually able to accomplish on your own.
For me, I am so grateful that I am able to get help, above and beyond my abilities. In some areas I have very great talents. In some I am woefully inadequate. If we were left to ourselves, we could never accomplish things beyond what we are capable.
These are things I know are true. I seek no arguments or debates, not because I claim something foolish like I can't be wrong, but rather because every other person in this life can choose for themselves what they want to think or feel, even if it seems impossible. This is simply how to change what you think cannot be changed in ourselves. It is always our choice. I would be a fool to claim that the blood paid for that was not for that exact reason.
[Responding to your second post smithey] Charisma is simply the fact that someone understands and works with socially approved ways of interacting with others in such as way as to successfully encourage what they want. It is just another perspective that some have and some don't.
As far as not wanting to kill those who do things to children that should in no way be encouraged, but rather punished, let me ask you: would you want to be the kind of person who would NOT want to harm those who damaged those innocents? I am not saying you would harm them, nor to indulge your anger, but if you do not seek to understand and determine if if should be cultivated (it shouldn't, but DO NOT squelch it, simply get past it), then you will become someone you do not like. I would be more concerned that you were not someone who desired to be a good person if you didn't feel similarly.
Edit:
[To Fauch] That is why I was referring to a new perception or view that someone had not had before. You cannot force someone to see what they cannot see any more than you could successfully force someone who was a quadriplegic to simply get up and walk, and some things are not able to be seen by some because of assumptions or beliefs they hold.
I imagine that there are really people out there in this world who can call on, for lack of a better term, dark forces to accomplish things that should not be done. I seek no knowledge of that for I know where the source of those things are. I could not gain the viewpoint of how to do that because I refuse to learn and see those kinds of things. Sometimes it is voluntary, and sometimes, like for the quadrilplegic, it isn't. But life is not meant to be fair. We are given what we can handle, if we learn to rely upon Whom we should.
If we don't rely upon Him, we have no promise.
If we want to change, we can find a way.
Not sure what else I would say beyond that...
____________
...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted May 10, 2011 08:51 PM |
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I tend to change gradualy, but I'm emotionally unstable and in fact a freak
No, I'm not grown horns or snake tongue yet.
However, most of people I know have strong conviction not to ever change at all, even if they are wrong or complete retards. They defend their independence like independece and react aggresively to everyone suggesting them changing behaviour or habits.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 10, 2011 08:56 PM |
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Quote:
Basically can a person choose to change those traits that make him who he is or are we stuck with the cards we were dealt, thats the big question, I have yet to encounter a person who has done so...
I also used to be very shy, and people would try to give me advices, methods to overcome the handicap, or would encourage me to find what could be the trauma responsible for it, but I didn't feel like doing all those efforts, and actually, less I got in contact with people telling me to do such or such things and less I was thinking about making efforts, more I felt I was becoming self-confident.
as long as you think you have to make efforts to overcome your shyness, you are actually feeding the feeling that you are shy.
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted May 10, 2011 08:59 PM |
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Quite true, Fauch! That is the thing about perception. Sometimes the best thing to do is to just move forward, and not worry about what others think.
Of course, that is often the hardest thing for many of us to do...
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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