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| Thread: The Lady Gaga appreciation thread |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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alcibiades
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Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 25, 2011 10:20 PM |
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Quote:
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*cough*American Life*cough*
Same goes for Kylie. Aphrodite was just plain horrible, All The Lovers was the only redeming moment on that.
American Life is a great album. Aphrodite on the other hand is one of the best albums of Minogue except for the song All The Lovers. We are just opposite of each other in these it seems.
Indeed, go figure. In Denmark we have an expression which would translate roughly into an "ear turd", which is a pretty exact description of how I feel about Aphrodite. For the same reason (and well, because her concert in Denmark was in the other end of the country) I didn't bother to go see her this time around.
Madonna has for me always been very much a "singles artist". She has made good albums, but if I want to listen to her music, I generally just put on a compilation of some sorts.
But I guess if that's how you feel about those two, our oppinion on which Gaga tracks are good and not will diverge a lot.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 25, 2011 10:37 PM |
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Madonna has for me always been very much a "singles artist". She has made good albums, but if I want to listen to her music, I generally just put on a compilation of some sorts.
But I guess if that's how you feel about those two, our oppinion on which Gaga tracks are good and not will diverge a lot.
Really we are like a joke with you here about Madonna and Kylie  Madonna is one of the artists I usually listen to as albums not songs seperately 
Anyway, to give it a try to Gaga but I also think we'll differ very much, "So Happy I Could Die" is my favourite song of her. Other likes are "Dance In The Dark", "Poker Face", "Just Dance", "Disco Heaven", "Monster" and "Paper Gangsta". As for dislikes: "Teeth", "Eh, Eh (Nothing Else I Can Say)", "Again Again" and "Brown Eyes" are my most hated ones.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 25, 2011 10:46 PM |
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So Rebecca Black is good is she because everybody knows her. Stupid logic.
No, Rebecca Black is good because she's so terrible. So terrible she becomes ironically entertaining.   but I guess that's sorta besides the point.
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Keksimaton
Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
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posted May 25, 2011 11:10 PM |
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Quite honestly you guys, I think that bboy has got a point. The only things different now are values and standards.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
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Nerf Herder
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posted May 25, 2011 11:26 PM |
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...
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I do?
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 25, 2011 11:29 PM |
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No, you don't.
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted May 25, 2011 11:32 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 23:32, 25 May 2011.
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I think Azagal has a point, if anyone.
Personally I think Lady Gaga is both overrated and at the same time unnecessarily hated, which is to say that she gets way more attention that she needs.
Her music is good but pretty bland, haven't listen to her latest work yet though.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 25, 2011 11:42 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 23:45, 25 May 2011.
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That does not prove anything other than they are more popular. Being popular is not being good as it does not mean "popular is bad". This sentence is pure childish Xerox, sorry but that's why people said "just get more mature" to you when you said you want to be a mod in HC.
You missed the point. I wrote that the Beatles are not relevant today, and then as an example I mentioned that if you go to schools, you will find out that today Lady Gaga and Rihanna etc are a million times more relevant by todays youth than old The Beatles which their grannys listened too.
Times change.
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So you hadn't get any fun from listening to music until Gaga became famous? That's sad, really.
There was no pop star that was even close to Lady Gaga before her. So yes, she made music more interesting and fun to me and I do feel that she has pushed pop music in her direction.
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So Rebecca Black is good is she because everybody knows her. Stupid logic.
LOL! XD By popular I do not mean that you got some hundred million views on a single video. I mean really popular, like world touring popular. I do hope that Rebecca Black will release more videos though and prove that she can sing without a hundred layers of autotune.
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Wow... Sorry. You really are just a child, I now realise the full extend :/ Every sentence in that quote is totally wrong and I won't tire myself explaining those to you. But know that you are not even funny doing these claims you know absolutely nothing about. 5 years later you will delete these posts probably. Or just want to change your nickname altogether for the shame. I just quoted your whole post as you can delete your post when that time comes but you can't delete it from my post.
Lol what? I am a childish because you do not agree with my OPINIONS?
I think you are being the child here.
I do not get what is childish with my original statement which is this: Madonna etc were very good but for todays youth, they are not nearly as relevant as Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber and Rihanna etc.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 25, 2011 11:48 PM |
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Anyway, to give it a try to Gaga but I also think we'll differ very much, "So Happy I Could Die" is my favourite song of her. Other likes are "Dance In The Dark", "Poker Face", "Just Dance", "Disco Heaven", "Monster" and "Paper Gangsta". As for dislikes: "Teeth", "Eh, Eh (Nothing Else I Can Say)", "Again Again" and "Brown Eyes" are my most hated ones.
Well not too many surprises there. Monster is my favorite track of hers (most underrated song in a long time) along with Paparazzi (amazing arrangement) and Poker Face (same). I also love Dance In The Dark, Bad Romance, Speechless and I actually like Eh, Eh and Brown Eyes, whereas I also find Teeth the worst song of 'Monster' (the live version is pretty ok though), and Just Dance really annoys me. Paper Gangster I don't even remember (lol) and I also dislike Love Game. But all in all we're not too far from each other.
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Lol what? I am a childish because you do not agree with my OPINIONS?
I think you are being the child here.
I do not get what is childish with my original statement which is this: Madonna etc were very good but for todays youth, they are not nearly as relevant as Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber and Rihanna etc.
No actually, you sort of do come across like that, no offence intended. It's a bit like when people do "reviews" and write 'I haven't listened to the album yet, but IT'S THE BEST ALBUM EVVVAAAAARRR!!!!11!!!' and all you can do is go 'WTF'!?
I love Gaga, I think she's smart and hillarious and mightily entertaining, but she's not that innovative, and seriously, if you actually bothered to go look some of the last 20 year's pop history up, I'm pretty sure you would find that there are others who have been far from boring.
All I can say is that great as Gagas show is - and it is great - while she performance whise is ahead of Madonna and also Kylie (who's a capable vocalist herself, though), entertainment wise she is not. I've not seen Madonna live myself (only on DVD), but I've seen Kylie and I can say that Gagas show has nothing that compares to what she did on her previous tours in terms of entertainment and wow-spectacular stuff.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 25, 2011 11:53 PM |
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Dance in the Dark was a great song and I do not understand why Alejandro became the last Fame Monster single instead of it (or Speechless or So Happy I could die which would show a new side of her to the non-hardcore fans).
However, I think Bad Romance coupled with the awesome video is her best. Bad Romance ALWAYS makes me happy and never disappoints me. It is still going on the swedish radio channels.
I was very disappointed with the Alejandro music video. I thought it was going to be the sequel of the telephone video and set in Mexico (as the lyrics mentions Mexico) but instead its a dark and depressive video set in like Russia, wtf?
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 25, 2011 11:56 PM |
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Dance in the Dark was a great song and I do not understand why Alejandro became the last Fame Monster single instead of it (or Speechless or So Happy I could die which would show a new side of her to the non-hardcore fans).
However, I think Bad Romance coupled with the awesome video is her best. Bad Romance ALWAYS makes me happy and never disappoints me. It is still going on the swedish radio channels.
I was very disappointed with the Alejandro music video. I thought it was going to be the sequel of the telephone video and set in Mexico (as the lyrics mentions Mexico) but instead its a dark and depressive video set in like Russia, wtf?
Bad Romance was a killer song + killer video = win. And I'm with you on Alejandro, the song was one of the weekest on the album, and the video didn't do much good either (although I loved the machine-gun bra, lol).
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 26, 2011 12:07 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 00:10, 26 May 2011.
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What Madonna had and Lada Gaga has in abundance is not musical talent but exellence in self-promotion. Madonna was never especially pretty, and nor is Lady Gaga. Their music is catchy if you like that sort of thing but it's certainly no better than anything produced by the other hundreds of pop stars over the years that sell a single hit and then fade away into obscurity. What these two stars excel at is marketing. They act and dress in such a way that is provocative, controversial and often downright bizarre, and these antics keep them in the limelight far longer than they otherwise ever would be.
Madonna made a name for herself by being sexually edgy and scandalously dressed in an era where that sort of thing was just unheard of. The days of being able to stand out by wearing a leather bustier and dry-humping a sofa onstage while crooning about being a virgin are long behind us, but Lady Gaga has gone in a different direction. Lady Gaga is less about sex then she is about mystery, pushing far beyond the boundaries of fashion into the undeniably strange. On the one hand donning a suit made of raw meat might seem to be well within the realm of the mentally deranged, but on the other hand you've got to hand it to her for being a genius at attracting attention. In this day and age where the entertainment industry is saturated by a surfeit of pretty nobodies that rarely write their own material, it is not musical talent so much as a willingness to differentiate yourself from the rest of the pack that determines success.
Comparisons between these artists to Beethoven or Mozart are laughable. For one thing you can't really compare music as an industry now to what is was back then. More importantly, the music isn't even comparable - physically. From a standpoint of complexity, not just in the diversity of instruments used but the melodies, musical scales, rhythms, and so on, the works of such composers are just orders of magnitude beyond anything that will EVER be performed by ANYONE in today's popular music industry - because quite simply selling records doesn't requrie it.
However you don't really have to go way back then to find complex, intellectually challenging music. There are plenty of musicians out there today, many of them popular worldwide, who write their own music which is far more complex and "advanced" - technically - than pop music. That's not to put down pop music at all. In the end it's all a matter of taste and what you want to listen to. I'd be lying if I said I never extracted enjoyment from pop. I have, and do, and sometimes I listen to it when I'm in the mood.
But from a technical standpoint, trying to compare Lada Gaga to Radiohead, or Pink Floyd, or Tangerine Dream, or any of the other people/bands actually exploring the boundaries of modern music - not to mention immortal greats like Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart and whoever else - is just going to make you look like a fool to anyone who knows anything about the history or technical/theoretical aspect of music. In that respect it's not merely a matter of personal taste. Madonna may be pleasing to the ears and she may even have a great voice and sing proficiently - but in the end the music is really just fluff. Simple beats, simple melodies, simple, usually repeating chords, and etc., geared towards entertainment (and very good at it), but not much else.
(I'm not a music snob btw. I don't look down on people who listen to "fluff". But in another life I was a pretty serious musician so I know music from a technical standpoint and can tell the difference between something complex or avante garde and a four-note repeating melody with some drums and synthesized guitar sounds.)
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alcibiades
Honorable
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posted May 26, 2011 12:21 AM |
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Great post Corribus (no surprise there).
While I agree whole-heartedly with what you say [I myself have one leg on one camp, I mightily enjoy good pop music (which is what Gaga is), but I also listen to what I consider much more complex music like progressive rock], I hate just dismissing pop music as "fluff". While I understand you're not saying this to be a snop, I still think a good (pop) tune - and the ability to write one - is something that is often dismissed as being less worthy than I actually think it is. Some of the greatest minds in music in the last century (and among these I count Beatles and ABBA) had that undefinable ability to pen melodies that are simple and catchy and still also durable, and I think in it's own right that's as admirable as being able to write complex orchistrations.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 26, 2011 12:26 AM |
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Wow, what can I say but great post and perfectly sums up bits of what I was trying to say.
I don't like Radiohead but I can admit that they're quite diverse as well as Pink Floyd and TD (which I'm surprised you mentioned tbh but good example as they are diverse). I also agree about the staying in the spotlight thing. I think if she didn't do the crazy stuff she did now, she would fade away but I think she just wants to stay there because of the fame and all. Also, being catchy doesn't necessarily mean you're good which is why I think Madonna is a great example. Catchy as hell which gets people interested because they can dance to it or whatever but her voice was terrible.
But yeah, great post mate. The comparisons to bands like The Beatles, Mozart and all are just ridiculous and I'm glad I'm not the only one to see that.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 26, 2011 12:31 AM |
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But yeah, great post mate. The comparisons to bands like The Beatles, Mozart and all are just ridiculous and I'm glad I'm not the only one to see that.
You aren't, but I think you're the only one who doesn't recognize a troll when you see him. 
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 26, 2011 12:33 AM |
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I don't get what was so special about The Beatles. I tried listening to one of their songs on YouTube and did not think it was very special. But they performed lots of years ago so it will be impossible for me to make a proper opinion about them since I did not live back then.
I think that Queen was an excellent band though and I like lots of their songs (as does Lady Gaga, since her name comes from one of their songs).
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Over himself, over his own
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mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 26, 2011 12:45 AM |
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I wasn't around either but I can appreciate what those kinds of bands did. You don't have to have been around to appreciate what bands did and also listening to one song isn't a good way to judge.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 26, 2011 12:48 AM |
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Their music is catchy if you like that sort of thing but it's certainly no better than anything produced by the other hundreds of pop stars over the years that sell a single hit and then fade away into obscurity. What these two stars excel at is marketing. They act and dress in such a way that is provocative, controversial and often downright bizarre, and these antics keep them in the limelight far longer than they otherwise ever would be.
Madonna made a name for herself by being sexually edgy and scandalously dressed in an era where that sort of thing was just unheard of.
This part of your post, unfortunately, is what makes me not cherish your post like the others and the snobbish part of it you sensed yourself and so added that you are not a snob.
Because calling Madonna's music "it's certainly no better than anything produced by the other hundreds of pop stars over the years that sell a single hit and then fade away into obscurity" is just wrong. As you implied yourself you don't like "this kind of thing", which I think means pop music in its most general form. Maybe that's why you missed the point in Madonna's songs as her music style is unique in pop music. Lots of artists count her in their "inspired by" list not due to her leather bra but her musical quality and style. She has set a standard in pop music with her songs.
The scandalous part of her you mentioned just made her be in every magazine and programme at the beginning of her career. "Like A Virgin" you referred to is her second album and she have released 10 studio albums now. You seem to have dropped observing her after that.
I suggest you listen "Ray Of Light" and "Erotica" albums to see why Madonna is and will always be one of the names that will never be forgotten in the history of pop music because of the musical quality.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 26, 2011 01:14 AM |
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Every successful pop or rock music is plagiarizing in a very superficial way the classic composers of the past, taking parts of well known melodies, simplify and mutilate them until everyone can get it easily. There is nothing original in this music, nothing that could even trigger a scrap of curiosity from a classical musician, nothing to learn or analyze, only bad cut and paste + a lot of images going very fast, so you forget that you are listening the emptiness. The initial powerful energy which was triggered by polyphony (real time interactivity between different subjects) was atrociously replaced with bum bum, tam tam, take them out and you will see how limp it sounds. Now take the images out as well, and you will be surprised you could be fooled in such way.
This music is simple and summarized. But more people enjoy mangas than they enjoy Mona Lisa, thus the problem is not in the complexity or the simplicity or such arts expressions but about the ability of people to dig for deep feelings or find a way through something complex.
Don't bash on me, if you like them, listen them. I only want to put the things in a professional perspective, not everyone knows the music is also a very exact science, not random sounds.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 26, 2011 01:31 AM |
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@Alci -
That's why I put "fluff" in quotes, because it's a perforative term that tries to objectify something that is inherently personal. You can't rate "goodness" for something as subjective as music, because good means different things to different people. To some people, Madonna may be "better" than Mozart, and I'd never argue against someone who felt that way. You *can* judge music by how complex it is, whether it does anything new, and etc. Judged by those standards, pop is fairly shallow, because there's not that much to it. However I'll remind you that there's not much to a chocolate chip cookie either and chocolate chip cookies are totally awesome.
Also, I fully recognize that within the category of pop, there are degrees of quality. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say it's the actual, technical music that drives that distinction, though. In pop, production values (lighting, venue, etc.) play a substantial role, and so does the charisma of the person performing it. As a pop star, you've got to do something to set you apart (as I've said), you've got to have stage presence, you've got to be able to dance, you've got to be athletic, and you've got to look good. Pop is really more (to my mind, anyway) about the performance than the music. People like Madonna, Gaga, Brittany Spears, Bieber, Jackson - they're successful because their music is done well, they've got catchy, repeating lyrics, a recognizable beat (good for dancing), and - most importantly - they've got stage presence. The music is part of it, but I'm pretty sure that - good signing voice though I might have - if I got up and sang "Hit me baby one more time", all while pumping my hips and wearing tight spandex, I'd probably be booed off the stage.
I think when you look at it this way, you'll see really why it's so hard to put pop up against more progressive, exploratory types of music. At this point you're talking about more than just genre or technical musical differences.
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