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| Thread: The Lady Gaga appreciation thread |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 26, 2011 01:35 AM |
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they've got stage presence.
This part is the most important. This is called being powerful communicator, and it is the hardest part to achieve. If there is one thing I grant to those pop artists, it is their communicator skill. Not everyone has it, and it is the first key towards the success, no matter how bad or good your music is.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 26, 2011 02:11 AM |
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People like Madonna, Gaga, Brittany Spears, Bieber, Jackson -
This is what most people have to give up. These artists have nothing to do each other. In a sentence Bieber or Spears has nothing to do with Madonna and Jackson. When you don't like it, you don't even try to recognise them and cannot seperate them from each other. That's why most people say to songs of the artist they don't like "his/her songs are all alike". It is not as absurd as putting Mozart and Bieber at the same sentence but it is still very absurd to put Bieber into same category with Madonna.
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Every successful pop or rock music is plagiarizing in a very superficial way the classic composers of the past, taking parts of well known melodies, simplify and mutilate them until everyone can get it easily. There is nothing original in this music, nothing that could even trigger a scrap of curiosity from a classical musician, nothing to learn or analyze, only bad cut and paste
I guess while saying these you were imagining "OK, this people are listening to Gaga, so they can't know anything about classical music" but unfortunately you are wrong. I love most irrelevant music types and artists and I am a real classical music lover. With the same argument of your I wouldn't like listening to Madonna, but I do. One of the biggest piano virtuosos of Turkey was my boyfriend once and he was also loving many pop music artists even some I find very cheap.
For me, "pop music is bad" is as ridiculous a saying as "x is popular because x is good". Yes, classical music is the God of all music types but that does not mean other music types are "taking parts of well known melodies, simplify and mutilate them until everyone can get it easily. There is nothing original in this music" They create and write the music. Classical music may have created that music type but while writing her song Madonna doesn't think of what Ravel wrote and tries to simplfy what he wrote let alone "taking parts of the melodies". That is just a lie.
I don't understand this recent "I hate pop! Pop is bad!" trend, really. But please try to put some truth and sense into it. I think people are trying to create the image of themselves as "I am an elite, super sophisticated, artistic person". Well I am also an art lover and I love Gaga, Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, Explosions In The Sky, Antony And The Johnsons, Röyksopp and E.S.T. at the same time. I don't understand why this is so impossible for some people.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 26, 2011 02:20 AM |
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You have to understand that not everybody has a diverse taste. Some only like specific stuff. I like Pop but even I can admit that there's nothing really to it. I like the catchiness to it but that is as far as it goes. I know that melodically and technically, they're not that good really. Some are good but the majority of pop isn't and that's why I think a lot of people have a problem with it. They want something more than the catchiness part of it and want actual substance behind the music if that makes sense? 
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 26, 2011 02:25 AM |
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you were imagining "OK, this people are listening to Gaga, so they can't know anything about classical music" but unfortunately you are wrong.
Well, maybe, the art of communicating feelings is not a science and not everyone can be right or wrong, but still there are technical aspects which can be analyzed.
There is a difference between knowing a bit about something and knowing well something. If you were a writer and be given a novel full of grammar errors or inconsistencies to review, it is unlikely that you would rate it high. But most of people will not care about errors, probably will not even notice them. And about inconsistencies, same, reading 10 minutes a day does not help to get a global view.
Fazil Say was your boyfriend?
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 26, 2011 03:05 AM |
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This is what most people have to give up. These artists have nothing to do each other. In a sentence Bieber or Spears has nothing to do with Madonna and Jackson.
All I said was that what they have in common is a stage presence that makes them successful as pop stars. I suppose there is always going to be someone who disagrees with everything, though. [rolls eyes]
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 26, 2011 09:16 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
This is what most people have to give up. These artists have nothing to do each other. In a sentence Bieber or Spears has nothing to do with Madonna and Jackson.
All I said was that what they have in common is a stage presence that makes them successful as pop stars. I suppose there is always going to be someone who disagrees with everything, though. [rolls eyes]
No, I'm actually with Nocturne here. There is POP music, and then there is pop MUSIC.
On one hand there are all those pop musicians (and they seem to be growing in numbers these days) that make their name solely from the act they are, the way they look, and the drama that surrounds them. The Biebster is a perfect example of this (even if that Baby-Baby-Oh song was catchy, that's obviously not what made him what he is). Britney obviously is a perfect example of that also - even though many of her songs are actually great pop songs (check out Blackout or the recent Femme Fatale), she herself has just about zero credit for that - it was all written for her, and I'd almost say they are great songs inspite of her singing talent rather than because of it.
On the other side there are pop musicians who've made their legacy from the music they've made and the song's they've sung - I'd put ABBA in this category, clearly, as I think they are the epitome of good pop. Michael Jackson (up to he started to act out around Thriller) obviously was in the same category. One of my favorite bands ever, the much scoffed at Roxette, are good examples of this also.
I think the challenge is that some artists sort of spans both these groups. Michael Jackson obviously moved more and more into the former, which was sad, because he actually continued to release excellent music (well, up to the late 90's at least, don't mention Invincible anywhere near me, or I'll throw a fit). Madonna (as I see it) also stands somewhere in between - she certainly has a much better voice than Britney, but still doesn't write much of the music herself I think (am I mistaken?).
And if to go back to Gaga, I think she actually has one foot solidly in second camp - she's certainly not the best pop artist ever, but she does write her songs herself, and she's a capable singer and player. But the whole costume thing has caused a lot of people to place her in camp one and thus write her off, on what I find as unjust reasons (I don't say you have to love her, but at least give her credit for what she does). Of course problem is, that in todays pop scene, it's hard to make it without a foot in camp one, although Swedish Robyn (with her brilliant Body Talk albums) proves that it can be done.
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What will happen now?
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 26, 2011 08:07 PM |
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In 10 years, people will be saying they can't believe they listened to this crap.
In a hundred years, no one will have ever heard of them.
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Eccentric Opinion
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 26, 2011 08:15 PM |
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That's probably true, because I certainly do not know any singer from the 1910s. 
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 26, 2011 08:20 PM |
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And yet most have heard of George Gerschwin, Igor Stravinsky, and Maurice Ravel.
Your honor, the prosecution rests.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 26, 2011 08:25 PM |
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There is POP music, and then there is pop MUSIC.
At last someone understood that 
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but still doesn't write much of the music herself I think (am I mistaken?).
Yes Sir you're mistaken here. She writes every song of her herself at her home and then work on them and develop the melodies further with the people she is working with on that album. So under every song of her it goes like "written by Madonna Ciccone, Mirwais Ahmadzaï" etc.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 26, 2011 09:02 PM |
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And yet most have heard of George Gerschwin, Igor Stravinsky, and Maurice Ravel.
Your honor, the prosecution rests.
That being said, the comparison is not quite fair, because the volume of music being produced per year must have grown something like exponentially over the last centuries, meaning that we can't really compare the two situations.
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What will happen now?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 26, 2011 09:19 PM |
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted June 01, 2011 10:13 PM |
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Just want to show this links to people like Xerox who find her looks (not singing) to be the most original thing out there.
First there's this link: Here
And secondly, a couple of comparisons between Cher pictures and Lady Gaga: Here
Original? I think not. I thought that a lot of them were original, crap, but original. Now I respect her even less. Not that I actually respected her much as it was but she can't even be original in her costume designs. Lol. The sooner this copycat goes the better to be honest.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted June 01, 2011 10:40 PM |
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Meh.
It's like whatever she does, someone did it a few decades ago, and better. She's simply re-wrapping it up nicely and feeding it to the general public.
There goes the shock value I might've felt (kind of hard to shock someone who grew up on Marilyn Manson though).
That said, I have only one problem with her. Yes, she's bad, but if she wasn't here, someone else would, and all the people with bad music taste would worship that one instead. It's not like she corrupted anyone who would've listened to good music anyway. No, she's simply satisfying a hungry market, and she's quite good at it.
No, what bothers me is that she's everywhere. From the local internet cafe to the pizza place to, well, anything, wherever you go, they're playing Judas (Madonna's "Like a Prayer" was at least 2 classes above, by the way, as well as 15 times more provocative on just about the same "Jesus isn't white" subject) with all they got, and it sucks ass. You've got to carry your headphones all the time or it's a matter of minutes when you'll get that WHO OH WHO OH OH crap stuck in your head the entire day. My ability to function normally without being forced to listen to her is getting more and more limited every day.
But, like I said, if it wasn't her, it'd be someone else. It's not her that creates social pressure like that. It's human stupidity. She's simply living off of it. And I don't have that much anger inside me to be able to get pissed off at everyone who's functioning like that.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted June 01, 2011 10:48 PM |
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Good post Bak. The bit I like especially is this:
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My ability to function normally without being forced to listen to her is getting more and more limited every day.
I'm the same. My sister and mum listen to it so when I'm just chilling, I may suddenly hear one of her songs when all I want to do is chill. Even with my headphones on, I am still, in some way, forced to listen to her stuff and, like you said, it sucks arse.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 01, 2011 10:58 PM |
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I think you people should be glad she is popular. Otherwise where would you pour this unnecessary hate of yours? You would explode in your homes! "People with bad taste music" Huh! 
Enough with resurrecting this tread. I though it got deleted or something and was glad.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted June 01, 2011 11:03 PM |
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Yeah, I've got a dislike of her music and her as a musician and performer, what is wrong with that? So you're telling me that you don't dislike any music? For a musician such as myself, music is such a big topic for me and I'm very strong on the subject, a lot stronger than you would be which is why I get into these sorts of debates. If you were hoping this thread got removed, then why even comment? Why not just ignore what I post?
I found those pictures today and found them interesting so thought to link it to this thread. Don't like it then don't read it. Simple.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 01, 2011 11:20 PM |
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Music is the biggest part of my life too, that's why I get angry when I see "people with bad music taste" comments like Baklava did, as this is so snobby and generalising, and Gaga is not even among my favourites and I listen to too many musicians and composers who are very irrelevant to each other as I have already wrote.
Of course there are musicians I loath. I would even be glad if Eminem got mute, so he can't sing anymore. But I would say that once and be over with it under his tread. Whereas it seems you just won't stop until everyone will say "Now I hate her Will". This won't happen.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 01, 2011 11:24 PM |
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Nocturnal, what hate?
Bad music, that's all, I don't think twice at her. If you enjoy it, have a good time, the best argument is "I like it, shut up" anyway, so why bother, no powerful analysis can stay against that.
The right term is not "bad taste", but "not cultivated taste".
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted June 01, 2011 11:26 PM |
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So I can';t keep discussing? Very well, I'll remember that in the future. Just say one post and be done with it. Lol, right. I found it an informative couple of links so thought I'd share them. As I said, don't like it then don't comment. And no, I don't want everybody to agree with me. I do like discussing it though. Nothing wrong with that? Don't like what I post then don't read it then your problem is solved.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
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