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| Thread: Starting to hate the game... after 3 weeks... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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avalon00x
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted December 13, 2011 01:19 PM |
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That's what I meant.
What I like here is the fact that you can really set the game's difficulty to the level you want on so many areas.
Like I said, when you pick HARD difficulty, difficulty isn'T set on hardest possible. Starting amount of troops is still on NORMAL, and you have to set manually to HARD, which will raise troops. Additionally, since you start with only 2500 money and 0 resources, you can't just start building to reinforce your lonely starting hero; you will have to fight immediately with what you get.
Playing on Normal Levelling speed (as opposed to faster) won't make it easier. Playing OFFLINE will make it even harder.
And playing with Hard AI opponents is another thing.
What I'm wondering about, is whether anyone DOES play hardest and STILL finds it noobish.
I have to add that the actual state of the game is unsatisfactory - it doesn't exactly motivate to play a lot due to a lot of annoying bugs.
The current AI is NOT enjoyable in campaign mode, You can put the AI on auto-fight and just focus on macro-management which destroys the fun.
PS : For normal maps tho, I'll try what you mention, but not before 1.2
Well the campaign is certainly easy but it has been the case in all heroes that i actively played ( H 3 (albeit that h3 is kind of hazy for me since i never got to it to work on newer machines)and onwards).
i guess one of the big differences is that during the campaign you get one big massive army as opposed to different castles resulting in different hero's with their own little army. but to me imho this is an improvement.
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 13, 2011 01:29 PM |
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That's what I meant.
What I like here is the fact that you can really set the game's difficulty to the level you want on so many areas.
Like I said, when you pick HARD difficulty, difficulty isn'T set on hardest possible. Starting amount of troops is still on NORMAL, and you have to set manually to HARD, which will raise troops. Additionally, since you start with only 2500 money and 0 resources, you can't just start building to reinforce your lonely starting hero; you will have to fight immediately with what you get.
Playing on Normal Levelling speed (as opposed to faster) won't make it easier. Playing OFFLINE will make it even harder.
And playing with Hard AI opponents is another thing.
What I'm wondering about, is whether anyone DOES play hardest and STILL finds it noobish.
I have to add that the actual state of the game is unsatisfactory - it doesn't exactly motivate to play a lot due to a lot of annoying bugs.
The current AI is NOT enjoyable in campaign mode, You can put the AI on auto-fight and just focus on macro-management which destroys the fun.
PS : For normal maps tho, I'll try what you mention, but not before 1.2
Well the campaign is certainly easy but it has been the case in all heroes that i actively played ( H 3 (albeit that h3 is kind of hazy for me since i never got to it to work on newer machines)and onwards).
i guess one of the big differences is that during the campaign you get one big massive army as opposed to different castles resulting in different hero's with their own little army. but to me imho this is an improvement.
Yeah, agreed. The old "chain" was boring, and i'm mostly glad that MOST of the random factor that plagued Heroes of M&M is gone. But what else is good in 6 ? lol.
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avalon00x
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted December 13, 2011 01:36 PM |
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That's what I meant.
What I like here is the fact that you can really set the game's difficulty to the level you want on so many areas.
Like I said, when you pick HARD difficulty, difficulty isn'T set on hardest possible. Starting amount of troops is still on NORMAL, and you have to set manually to HARD, which will raise troops. Additionally, since you start with only 2500 money and 0 resources, you can't just start building to reinforce your lonely starting hero; you will have to fight immediately with what you get.
Playing on Normal Levelling speed (as opposed to faster) won't make it easier. Playing OFFLINE will make it even harder.
And playing with Hard AI opponents is another thing.
What I'm wondering about, is whether anyone DOES play hardest and STILL finds it noobish.
I have to add that the actual state of the game is unsatisfactory - it doesn't exactly motivate to play a lot due to a lot of annoying bugs.
The current AI is NOT enjoyable in campaign mode, You can put the AI on auto-fight and just focus on macro-management which destroys the fun.
PS : For normal maps tho, I'll try what you mention, but not before 1.2
Well the campaign is certainly easy but it has been the case in all heroes that i actively played ( H 3 (albeit that h3 is kind of hazy for me since i never got to it to work on newer machines)and onwards).
i guess one of the big differences is that during the campaign you get one big massive army as opposed to different castles resulting in different hero's with their own little army. but to me imho this is an improvement.
Yeah, agreed. The old "chain" was boring, and i'm mostly glad that MOST of the random factor that plagued Heroes of M&M is gone. But what else is good in 6 ? lol.
I am not even just referring to chaining to get stuff to your main army but there being more sub army, as in when playing for example haven and capturing a necro town you would not be able to combine the armies ( would have bad results ) it did make the ally / enemie chain more interesting with it ether resulting in bigger morale penalties but ultimately you would have necro monsters inyour army as haven. wich resulted in a so called misfit branch that did not fit into your army . wheras in H 6 you can put everything in your army resulting in one big army if you would so want it. opposed to that the ai splits their stacks amongs a bazillion hero's wich will be crushed with your big and powerfull army..
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moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted December 15, 2011 03:44 PM |
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Edited by moonlith at 16:49, 16 Dec 2011.
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I find it amusing this OP comes from the person who weeks before proclaimed it to have the potential to be the BEST heroes game yet.
Goes to show you probably shouldn't be spewing your mouth prematurely, or you words will come back to haunt you. Of course that doesn't apply to HOMM VI reviewers because they only play it for an hour or two to give it a good review and after that they won't ever play it again since they already have Ubisoft's money in their pockets.
Integrity, bah. Commercial corruption.
The creators say they are fans of the series and know what elements 'define' the series and should be kept in order to keep it "heroes". If that's the case then how come it barely feels like a Heroes title? Even HoMM IV did a better job at maintaining the feel of the franchise.
- I don't see how having only one special resource 'maintains the classic feel'. "Oh but it doesn't define heroes", no, but it certain added to it. You don't mess with traditions that are NOT BROKEN. NOBODY ever complained about having 4 special resources, NEVER was it an issue. Why they decided to 'fix' that for no reason at all is beyond me.
- You ripped out THREE of the classic factions. There are six factions that are deemed 'classic' and should always be featured. It's not heroes otherwise. But worse yet, amongst those three, TWO are from the ORIGINAL FOUR factions! How DARE you!
- You replaced classic and recognizable fantasy creatures (what HoMM in essence was based upon) with random run-of-the-mill monster-of-the-week abominations nobody gives two craps about. Tell me, was your "Lollernaut" worth cutting out Nightmares for? "Blazing glory" ? The fek?
- Up untill HoMM IV maps distinctively looked like adventure maps, with only the hero, creatures, and resources looking bigger in scale. A "tree" tile represented a forest. Since HoMM V and onwards the entire maps have been made to look more in scale with the hero to give it more of an RPG feel, with the result that buildings and towns look undersized, and a "tree" tile literally representing a single detailed tree. Stop doing that. Really.
- Completely redefined hero primairy and secondairy skills and advancement. Not sure how this is supposed to 'stick to good old traditions'. Nor does it make for more interesting gameplay (wow, we so didn't see THAT one coming). Too many useless skills that are just not worth wasting a combat turn casting, and is there anyone who doesn't pick Regeneration and Tactics as their first two skills?
- Town screens. You've been lazy naughty boys. Not necessary for gameplay? Of course not. But we're talking traditions and classic feeling here.
- Primairy franchise-defining creatures, such as black dragons, are missing.
So please excuse me if I take your "We are fans of the series and know what defines Heroes" statement with a bucket of salt.
But even if we don't compare it to former HoMM traditions there's plenty in HoMM VI to nag about.
- Bugs, glitches, crashes, the standard parade for any deadline-delivered game. I complain a lot about Blizzard and their decisions, but at least they have the integrity and professionalism to deliver games when they deem them FINISHED. Pro-tip: "Oh we can patch it later" DOES NOT make you look like professional gamedesigners/publishers. You're really really lucky there are plenty dumb sheep who mindlessly buy your games regardless of the reputation you have built up.
- Creature growth. What the?! Are you INSANE?! Only a few weeks into the game and I already see stacks of over 300. What is up with these insane and surreal numbers?
- Not only that, but it makes every map feel like a "rush map". Because the moment you take a BIT too long you will fall behind, HORRIBLY so, to the point you are incapable of completing the map anymore and need to restart.
- That is untill the very end of the map of course, where it turns into a long end-turn spam fest to accumulate a giant army for the final confrontation. The longer you wait, the easier it becomes. Fun gameplay ey?
- Early maps are too big. Ever heard of "tutorials" ? "Easy early maps" to get into the game? If your very first map of your very first campaign is already a giant map with tons of enemies to deal with I question the experience of your mapmakers. Non-existant is my guess. This is not a matter of whether such maps are enjoyable or not, that's a personal taste.
- Practically every single map feels the SAME: Circular. The moment you are in the north west and head east (first haven campaign map), you KNOW those douches in the south are going to head west and north. And there is NOTHING you can do about it. This is not challenging OR fun gameplay, this is just mindlessly chasing around your enemies hoping to reclaim the crap they stole fast enough, and to be able to catch up to them. It's nice to see they have enough junk to randomly waste in such excursions, but I can't say the same about myself. Perhaps I just suck, that's an entire possibility, but it doesn't change the fact I don't enjoy this kind of cat-and-mouse gameplay and getting repeatively stabbed in the back the moment I try to move on.
- On top of that, "side missions" tend to take you off-course. You can't afford to go after them because the moment you do, your actual enemy takes advantage and come to claim your territory. The only moment you are actually capable of doing these side missions is at the very end, when you have the last goal confined to a single castle, accumulated a massive force, and put a jailer in front of the enemy so your main hero can run all the way back, do the side mission for some useless rewards (level cap reached lal), and run all the back again to finish the map. Not. Good. Mapdesign.
- "Teehee you can't use this item and can't choose these bonusses if you don't play in online mode". Do I really need to say anything here? A Hallmark of poor gamedesign. Pro-tip: If you're so concerned with loyal customers actually paying for your game, perhaps you should focus on designing a GOOD game and EARNING your money? It only serves as a nuisance to proper paying customers and fails to do its actual job. As does every other non-efficient piracy prevention mechanism tried in the past few years.
- "Tears" and "blood" paths? Do I look like a freaking emo or goth to you? What is this crap? Pro-tip: Unlike popular philosophies in those circles, using the words "tears" and "blood" does not automatically make something more poetic or "deep". See for yourself: http://vampirefreaks.com/journal_recent.php (and have a good laugh while you're there).
- And what's up with the distinctively SLAVIC names of all the campaign heroes? I know Black Hole is based in a slavic region, but last time I checked, the world of Ashan was not. Then again I have to admit this world of Ashan and its background never particularly struck my interest to begin with. But considering the world is a fantasy medieval context, the overload on slavic sounding names seems out of place to me.
- And on that note, voice acting. Gaaaaaaahhh...
- And still on the same note, poor character and story design. Playing the Necro campaign made it feel as if I was somehow caught up in a story about a teensy little girl going through her melodramatic angst years with every single one of pointless emotional issues girls experience today in the modern world as they grow up......... The fek?
- New creature tiers may be innovating but it makes the game feel as if there are only 3 tiers of creatures. Which is technically true.
- Creature designs are meh. Too detailed, too 'unique' considering they represent a generic unit of its species. Too many pointless spikes and horns and hooks (particularly on the demons and undead) which look idiotic to begin with.
- Mana seems to be in ridiculously high amounts, both in amount of mana your hero has and in spell costs. Why? I'm clueless. Seems like they could have just divided everything by a factor of 5 orso.
- There seems to be a lack of obviously useless creatures. Some might call this a good thing but it feels strange to me. Zombies were useless meatsacks but did anyone actually MIND having them as tier two necro units? It's always the useless and crappy units that you can't help but like for their uselessness. Is there anyone who DIDN'T like the HoMM 1/2 peasants? Those adorable 1-HP twerps...
- There rarely, if ever, seems to be a shortage on gold. Meaning you rarely if ever need to make a tactical decision on which creatures to buy, since you can just buy them all.
- Transforming towns into your own native town. Useful? Yes. Needed? No. Fun? Nah. And it further derives from the original where you could easily mix units of different factions together in an efficient army. That element seems to be completely removed now.
As for the few pros I could find:
- Initiative seems to be used properly this time around. Not OP to the extend it gives too many turns for a creature per round like the case was in HoMM V.
- I actually like the way Mass spells only yield half the effect of the main spell, makes it more of a choice instead of a mindless "mass is completely better".
- I actually like that certain spells have a limited amount of casts in battle. Makes it more important to give it a good thought and wait for the right time to cast it.
- Making the upgrade dwelling increase creature growth is fairly interesting and adds more weight to upgrading more quickly. On the other hand one could argue it perhaps adds a bit TOO much pressure on upgrading.
Neutral:
- Graphics seem fine by today's standards and the choice of style, cutscenes are pathetic.
- Sounds and music in particular are okay but that is only because they are shamelessly ripped from earlier games. Loving reference, or incapable of making their own? Sanctuary theme is good though.
Conclusion:
Trying this game reassured me that Ubisoft is NOT the kind of company I want to support.
Exit poll: Anyone feel I should become a gamereviewer? Constructive critisism welcome. Just curious, really.
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avalon00x
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 04:12 PM |
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- Town screens. You've been lazy naughty boys. Not necessary for gameplay? Of course not. But we're talking traditions and classic feeling here.
So please excuse me if I take your "We are fans of the series and know what defines Heroes" statement with a bucket of salt.
But even if we don't compare it to former HoMM traditions there's plenty in HoMM VI to nag about.
- And what's up with the distinctively SLAVIC names of all the campaign heroes? I know Black Hole is based in a slavic region, but last time I checked, the world of Ashan was not. Then again I have to admit this world of Ashan and its background never particularly struck my interest to begin with. But considering the world is a fantasy medieval context, the overload on slavic sounding names seems out of place to me.
- And on that note, voice acting. Gaaaaaaahhh...
- There seems to be a lack of obviously useless creatures. Some might call this a good thing but it feels strange to me. Zombies were useless meatsacks but did anyone actually MIND having them as tier two necro units? It's always the useless and crappy units that you can't help but like for their uselessness. Is there anyone who DIDN'T like the HoMM 1/2 peasants? Those adorable 1-HP twerps...
- There rarely, if ever, seems to be a shortage on gold. Meaning you rarely if ever need to make a tactical decision on which creatures to buy, since you can just buy them all.
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As for the few pros I could find:
- Initiative seems to be used properly this time around. Not OP to the extend it gives too many turns for a creature per round like the case was in HoMM V.
- I actually like the way Mass spells only yield half the effect of the main spell, makes it more of a choice instead of a mindless "mass is completely better".
- I actually like that certain spells have a limited amount of casts in battle. Makes it more important to give it a good thought and wait for the right time to cast it.
- Making the upgrade dwelling increase creature growth is fairly interesting and adds more weight to upgrading more quickly. On the other hand one could argue it perhaps adds a bit TOO much pressure on upgrading.
Neutral:
- Graphics seem fine by today's standards and the choice of style, cutscenes are pathetic.
- Sounds and music in particular are okay but that is only because they are shamelessly ripped from earlier games. Loving reference, or incapable of making their own? Sanctuary theme is good though.
Conclusion:
I'm glad that I pirated the game to give it a go first before deciding whether or not I'd want to buy it. It reassured me that Ubisoft is NOT the kind of company I want to support with my money.
Exit poll: Anyone feel I should become a gamereviewer? Constructive critisism welcome. Just curious, really.
so this is what is left of your points after taking out oppinions that differ from person to person a rather scarce pro's and cons list i also took the liberty to put some of the points i found rather amusing and comment on them one by one.
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- Not only that, but it makes every map feel like a "rush map". Because the moment you take a BIT too long you will fall behind, HORRIBLY so, to the point you are incapable of completing the map anymore and need to restart.
oh really? seeing as you can ONLY have played the campaign wich is rediculously easy. i can only say.. "You'r doing it wrong"
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- On top of that, "side missions" tend to take you off-course. You can't afford to go after them because the moment you do, your actual enemy takes advantage and come to claim your territory. The only moment you are actually capable of doing these side missions is at the very end, when you have the last goal confined to a single castle, accumulated a massive force, and put a jailer in front of the enemy so your main hero can run all the way back, do the side mission for some useless rewards (level cap reached lal), and run all the back again to finish the map. Not. Good. Mapdesign.
Really you are stil having problems with the overly easy campaign?
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- "Teehee you can't use this item and can't choose these bonusses if you don't play in online mode". Do I really need to say anything here? A Hallmark of poor gamedesign. Pro-tip: If you're so concerned with loyal customers actually paying for your game, perhaps you should focus on designing a GOOD game and EARNING your money? Features like this certainly don't stop me or anyone else from pirating the game and it only serves as a nuisance to proper paying customers. As does every other non-efficient piracy prevention mechanism tried in the past few years.
You Pirated the game And now you cry becouse you cant use all the items? oh no poor you i feel sorry. if your game is insable and you cant use all the items Dont blame the game for that blame the fact you pirated the game.
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- That is untill the very end of the map of course, where it turns into a long end-turn spam fest to accumulate a giant army for the final confrontation. The longer you wait, the easier it becomes. Fun gameplay ey?
More turns = worse score but then again you are just a pirate so maybe you dont get a score screen i would not know since i honistly bought the game.
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- New creature tiers may be innovating but it makes the game feel as if there are only 3 tiers of creatures. Which is technically true.
You placed this at bad points but i applaud your pirating skills to count. i personaly find 3 tiers a positive thing seeing as my Pearl priestresses still serve some use end game
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- Creature designs are meh. Too detailed, too 'unique' considering they represent a generic unit of its species. Too many pointless spikes and horns and hooks (particularly on the demons and undead) which look idiotic to begin with.
you are honistly claiming you would prefer to see a red blob instead of a ravager? the only reason one can complain about this is becouse your computer is to old wich is no suprise seeing as you pirate games. word of advice you should use that money to buy a better computer.
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- Transforming towns into your own native town. Useful? Yes. Needed? No. Fun? Nah. And it further derives from the original where you could easily mix units of different factions together in an efficient army. That element seems to be completely removed now
It removed the luck factor. and this was one of their best descissions in my oppinion. i cant express howmany times i have felt aggrivated to get those blasted elves as a castle eventho i hate the guy out of them.
word of advice dont review games.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted December 15, 2011 04:22 PM |
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you are honistly claiming you would prefer to see a red blob instead of a ravager?
You mean the Breed Mother, or Motherbreeder or whatever?
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 04:29 PM |
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Thats many good points but very one sided i would say.
I think the main problem with the game is that developers cut out many pieces of the game (which is fine with me, for the most part) but they didnt add anything to compensate it. I would think that instead of spending their time and money for those things they cut they would put: random map creator, good ladder system, clear the game from bugs, make sim turns available, make proper map editor, proper hero leveling system etc...
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avalon00x
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 04:32 PM |
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you are honistly claiming you would prefer to see a red blob instead of a ravager?
You mean the Breed Mother, or Motherbreeder or whatever?
That's the point i was making 
without detail they would all look like blobs
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 05:20 PM |
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Conclusion:
I'm glad that I pirated the game to give it a go first before deciding whether or not I'd want to buy it. It reassured me that Ubisoft is NOT the kind of company I want to support with my money.
Exit poll: Anyone feel I should become a gamereviewer? Constructive critisism welcome. Just curious, really.
You just took some random elements you have seen on this forum (obvious), put them here and there, add some comments on them (while you don't even own the game legally) and yet you think you can become a reviewer ?
It's much more difficult bro'
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moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted December 15, 2011 06:14 PM |
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Edited by moonlith at 16:52, 16 Dec 2011.
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so this is what is left of your points after taking out oppinions that differ from person to person a rather scarce pro's and cons list i also took the liberty to put some of the points i found rather amusing and comment on them one by one.
I'm pretty certain my opinions contain "In my opinion" or "I feel" in them. I don't see how that is an issue since I am making it clear it is my subjective opinion - anyone can see that. If not I should re-check that and make it more obvious.
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oh really? seeing as you can ONLY have played the campaign wich is rediculously easy. i can only say.. "You'r doing it wrong"
If "playing it casual and slowly" means doing it wrong, yes. Try it. Sit in your first castle you conquer and take your time to explore the area around. Wait too long and both creature stacks AND enemy forces will accumulate much faster than the three units in the first tier that are accesable to you. I'm not saying such maps are necessarily BAD, but that such maps should NOT occur as the very first maps in a campaign, and neither should occur too frequently.
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Really you are stil having problems with the overly easy campaign?
I didn't say I was having trouble. I beat any opponent with 0 losses. I am saying the gameplay is frustrating and annoying, not fun, because it comes down to cat-and-mouse chasing and an inability to go for side-quests unless you let your opponent ravage your terrain in the meanwhile.
Granted that could be biased since I never liked the idea of splitting my armies in HoMM, yet some maps did force me to do that.
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And now you cry becouse you cant use all the items? oh no poor you i feel sorry. if your game is insable and you cant use all the items Dont blame the game for that blame the fact you pirated the game.
You are mistaken. I am not crying because I cannot get the bonus and use those items. I don't need them. I am pointing out it is a nuisance to "need" to be connected to the internet for people who pay for the game, and that it even fails when it comes to doing what it was implemented for: preventing piracy. In other words, a useless feature that is just obnoxious for paying customers. And a horrible trend in general in modern games.
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More turns = worse score but then again you are just a pirate so maybe you dont get a score screen i would not know since i honistly bought the game.
Ahhh, score. Yeah. Very important. Bigger score = more enjoyment, yep.
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you are honistly claiming you would prefer to see a red blob instead of a ravager?
I am claiming I would rather see a recognizable fantasy creature like a Nightmare instead of a red blob OR a ravager.
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It removed the luck factor. and this was one of their best descissions in my oppinion. i cant express howmany times i have felt aggrivated to get those blasted elves as a castle eventho i hate the guy out of them.
One could argue it removed TOO much luck-factor. Too much makes your chances of victory rely on pure chance, not good. Too little turns the game utterly stale.
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Thats many good points but very one sided i would say.
Believe me I -tried- to find good things to say about it. But I couldn't. But then I'm an overly critical person. Which might be a good thing. The point remains I didn't find myself having fun playing it.
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You just took some random elements you have seen on this forum (obvious), put them here and there, add some comments on them and yet you think you can become a reviewer ?
It's much more difficult bro'
Nice set of fallacies.
- Don't assume I mindlessly repeat what other people claim. I experienced it myself and gave my opinion. If you disagree, do it constructively. If you don't believe me, well, whatever.
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tabachanker
Hired Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 06:52 PM |
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I'm glad that I pirated the game to give it a go first before deciding whether or not I'd want to buy it. It reassured me that Ubisoft is NOT the kind of company I want to support with my money.
Exit poll: Anyone feel I should become a gamereviewer? Constructive critisism welcome. Just curious, really.
You made some very good points in your post, but lots of it seemed like obvious ramblings.
Also, since you pirated the game and really disliked it, I hope you deleted it from your hard drive afterward. If not, then you're the number one reason why we, the people that bought legally the game, must deal with DRM / Conflux bulls***.
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- I don't see how having only one special resource 'maintains the classic feel'. "Oh but it doesn't define heroes", no, but it certain added to it. You don't mess with traditions that are NOT BROKEN. NOBODY ever complained about having 4 special resources, NEVER was it an issue. Why they decided to 'fix' that for no reason at all is beyond me.
Totally agree here! NOBODY EVER complained about this. Why change it then? They probably thought that it's easier to balance that way, so the game will be easier tho develop. Well, we still have some serious balancing issues in the game, even with only one special resource.
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- You ripped out THREE of the classic factions. There are six factions that are deemed 'classic' and should always be featured. It's not heroes otherwise. But worse yet, amongst those three, TWO are from the ORIGINAL FOUR factions! How DARE you!
Again I agree with you. Only 5 factions in unheard of except for the 1st game. Moreover, the Warlock/Dungeon faction is nowhere to be found, this is one of the most universally liked faction since Homm I.
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- You replaced classic and recognizable fantasy creatures (what HoMM in essence was based upon) with random run-of-the-mill monster-of-the-week abominations nobody gives two craps about. Tell me, was your "Lollernaut" worth cutting out Nightmares for? "Blazing glory" ? The fek?
I usually like it more when new Heroes games introduce new interesting creatures. Without this, we would have never seen Harpies (I liked them a lot in HommIII and HommV (blood maidens)), basilisk (I miss them...), pit lords, etc.
This game though... I don't know. Lots of creatures are almost the same. Like the obvious water elementals and spring spirits... they even have the same portrait. The light elementals and blazing glory. Also, I still have some trouble distinguishing upgrades from their basic version (pearl/coral priestesses come to mind).
For what's it worth, I like the creature designs in Homm VI a lot more than Homm V. I couldn't stand that last one's factions that really had only one creature with different abilities (dwarves that defend, dwarves that shoot, dwarves that ride bears, giant dwarves, etc.)
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- Up until HoMM IV maps distinctively looked like adventure maps, with only the hero, creatures, and resources looking bigger in scale. A "tree" tile represented a forest. Since HoMM V and onwards the entire maps have been made to look more in scale with the hero to give it more of an RPG feel, with the result that buildings and towns look undersized, and a "tree" tile literally representing a single detailed tree. Stop doing that. Really.
That really doesn't bother me that much. In this case, it's really not detrimental to the game.
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- Completely redefined hero primary and secondary skills and advancement. Not sure how this is supposed to 'stick to good old traditions'. Nor does it make for more interesting gameplay (wow, we so didn't see THAT one coming). Too many useless skills that are just not worth wasting a combat turn casting, and is there anyone who doesn't pick Regeneration and Tactics as their first two skills?
I mainly agree here since I always LOVED the random aspect of previous games. But I understand that this is one thing that other Homm players may have disliked about the Homm series in general. So, considering that, I don't mind the change. What I don't understand though is how they thought that anyone would choose another skill over "regeneration" or "heal" or "tactics". We will probably end up always taking the same useful skills in the exact same order.
Also, I don't like having to decide, for every level I gain, which skill to choose. The first times you play, it's just so overwhelming. After a while, you get used to the "good" skills to pick. But it certainly feels like I don't have a choice since I'm always picking the same skills...
It doesn't help that the interface sucks big time (the 2x2 pixels OK/Cancel buttons...)
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- Town screens. You've been lazy naughty boys. Not necessary for gameplay? Of course not. But we're talking traditions and classic feeling here.
I thought at first that, if we don't get town screens, only 5 factions, and a somewhat easier to develop game (only 1 special resource to balance) that, at least, the game will be in super playable form at release with almost no bugs ......
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- Primairy franchise-defining creatures, such as black dragons, are missing.
And Titans! And Minotaurs! But as I said before, I'm fairly happy with the creatures we got in Homm VI, except for the repeats.
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- Creature growth. What the?! Are you INSANE?! Only a few weeks into the game and I already see stacks of over 300. What is up with these insane and surreal numbers?
THIS! OH MY GOD! THIS SO HARD! I couldn't believe it the first times I played. If you don't continuously recruit your week creatures, the point where you can't go forward anymore arrive REALLY FAST. Also, forget about giving a couple of troops to your secondary heroes, you need EVERY CREATURES on your primary one. 200 elite creatures guarding a saw mill after 3 weeks is too much. That's not fun. You have to rush everything with your main hero and don't lose any troops! So take those "regeneration" and "heal" skills ASAP! So much for choice!
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- Early maps are too big. Ever heard of "tutorials" ?
I'll only quote this point but, to me, the rest of your post starting here really seems like useless ramblings, especially your comments about "tears" and "blood" path, the slavic names and the voice acting.
Here's some other comments:
About the tutorial: I think the 2 first maps (those before the faction specific ones) did a fairly good job in letting me know about the different aspects of the game. Sure they didn't do a whole 5 maps campaign like in Homm V but I think in that game, it was really overkill.
About the "circular pattern" of all maps, I played a couple of campaign maps and have not come to this conclusion at all. The maps have roads that leads to buildings/cities and if you decide to go one way, you can never be sure that an enemy lies on the other road. This has always been the same in all installments of the series.
Side missions are just that, side missions. You can bypass them entirely if you don't like 'em. If you don't have time to do them, you can still go after them, albeit risking a castle here and there. That's the very nature of side missions.
If you pirated the game, don't cry about DRM... But, I must say, as a legal buyer of the game, I'm very disappointed about the conflux. What will happen the day Ubisoft stops supporting the game? I'm still playing Heroes II and III regularly and they still work as great as the first time they were released.
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- Transforming towns into your own native town. Useful? Yes. Needed? No. Fun? Nah. And it further derives from the original where you could easily mix units of different factions together in an efficient army. That element seems to be completely removed now.
I also miss the mixing of creatures. With Heroes VI, it's practically a no-brainer to transform the towns you conquer (except if you really don't think you'll have the town for long).
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 15, 2011 07:04 PM |
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The creators say they are fans of the series and know what elements 'define' the series and should be kept in order to keep it "heroes". If that's the case then how come it barely feels like a Heroes title? Even HoMM IV did a better job at maintaining the feel of the franchise.
- I don't see how having only one special resource 'maintains the classic feel'. "Oh but it doesn't define heroes", no, but it certain added to it. You don't mess with traditions that are NOT BROKEN. NOBODY ever complained about having 4 special resources, NEVER was it an issue. Why they decided to 'fix' that for no reason at all is beyond me.
- You ripped out THREE of the classic factions. There are six factions that are deemed 'classic' and should always be featured. It's not heroes otherwise. But worse yet, amongst those three, TWO are from the ORIGINAL FOUR factions! How DARE you!
- Up untill HoMM IV maps distinctively looked like adventure maps, with only the hero, creatures, and resources looking bigger in scale. A "tree" tile represented a forest. Since HoMM V and onwards the entire maps have been made to look more in scale with the hero to give it more of an RPG feel, with the result that buildings and towns look undersized, and a "tree" tile literally representing a single detailed tree. Stop doing that. Really.
Wow, that was a long tirade. Much as I agree with you that many things about the game design is justifiably criticable, on the above quoted points, I think you are just being unreasonably stubborn.
- No, I don't agree with cutting the ressources, but that doesn't mean they didn't have a point with doing it, and that they are to some extent even right.
- No, I don't like neither Academy nor Sylvan being in, and yes, I think there should have been 6 factions (namely including Academy) in the original release, but cut them some slack, wanting ALL the old factions included is just not realistic, and I applaud adding a new faction - even if the Spring Spirit thing just goes beyond my understanding how anybody could ever believe fans would find that a good idea.
- So they made adventure map look more pretty and realistic ... and that's just wrong, because ... why? I simply don't agree with you on this one. The H6 adventure map looks absolutely gorgeous. It might be the only one truely positive thing I have to say about the game, but I'll give them that one. The battlefields also look great, but the downside is that units have become so teeny-tiny that you can hardly make out what they are or tell them apart, much less see the details of their design.
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moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted December 15, 2011 07:19 PM |
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Edited by moonlith at 19:30, 15 Dec 2011.
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Also, since you pirated the game and really disliked it, I hope you deleted it from your hard drive afterward. If not, then you're the number one reason why we, the people that bought legally the game, must deal with DRM / Conflux bulls***.
I haven't yet, but I haven't played it since I played it a while ago either. I'll delete it soon enough.
The sole reason I pirated it was because from what previews we had been given I already didn't like some of the changes they were doing, so I had a strong suspicion I wouldn't enjoy it. So I pirated it to 'test' it and see if I would find it good enough to reward with money. Conclusion is I didn't, so I'm not going to buy it nor play it.
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I usually like it more when new Heroes games introduce new interesting creatures. Without this, we would have never seen Harpies (I liked them a lot in HommIII and HommV (blood maidens)), basilisk (I miss them...), pit lords, etc.
The thing is that Harpies and Basilisks are creatures from mythology and often featured in fantasy games. Ravagers, Tormentors, Maniacs, and Breeders however? Completely random monsters, no basis. Granted the same could be said about Pit Lords when they were first introduced in HoMM3.
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I couldn't stand that last one's factions that really had only one creature with different abilities (dwarves that defend, dwarves that shoot, dwarves that ride bears, giant dwarves, etc.)
Agreed It had potential but they didn't take it.
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That really doesn't bother me that much. In this case, it's really not detrimental to the game.
True enough, but I listed it as part of the tradition-breaking rant.
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I mainly agree here since I always LOVED the random aspect of previous games. But I understand that this is one thing that other Homm players may have disliked about the Homm series in general. So, considering that, I don't mind the change. What I don't understand though is how they thought that anyone would choose another skill over "regeneration" or "heal" or "tactics". We will probably end up always taking the same useful skills in the exact same order.
It's about finding the right balance to what extent random luck should affect your chances to win the game. If luck is the only element deciding the game for you, little of your input would really matter. If no luck is involved at all, one wrong choice could screw over your chances of success without any random chance to still provide you with a chance.
Battle for Wesnoth is an interesting example. It's entertaining but a bit TOO reliant on pure luck. "Oh if I place my unit on this forest here it has 70% chance to avoid attacks, so it should be safe here!" And then of course that big giant troll swings twice, both of which hit, and your vital unit dies. Tactics completely blown into the wind.
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But it certainly feels like I don't have a choice since I'm always picking the same skills...
And that's the other end of the spectrum yeah, every game essentially turning into the exact same stale progression. Random luck helps in keeping things fresh and making you deal with surprises.
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I'll only quote this point but, to me, the rest of your post starting here really seems like useless ramblings, especially your comments about "tears" and "blood" path, the slavic names and the voice acting.
Point taken Except about voice acting. That's just bad.
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If you pirated the game, don't cry about DRM...
I'm not, since I'm not playing the game anymore. But my vice with it is that it is only a nuisance to paying customers.
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But, I must say, as a legal buyer of the game, I'm very disappointed about the conflux. What will happen the day Ubisoft stops supporting the game? I'm still playing Heroes II and III regularly and they still work as great as the first time they were released.
Probably not much of an issue since you can play it in off-line mode. You just wouldn't have access to special items and starting bonusses anymore. But it still feels like a useless feature. I have MSN and other IM-programs to chat with friends. Why would I want to interact in Conflux?
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I also miss the mixing of creatures. With Heroes VI, it's practically a no-brainer to transform the towns you conquer (except if you really don't think you'll have the town for long).
It was kinda prevented already when in HoMM V heroes got their unique skills which only applied to the creatures of their own faction. Ever since it became pointless to mix armies since they wouldn't benefit from it - only Warlocks could work with any mix of armies. But that trend is continued by making it even easier to get rid of creatures not native to your town by just converting the town.
@ Alcibiades
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- No, I don't agree with cutting the ressources, but that doesn't mean they didn't have a point with doing it, and that they are to some extent even right.
Maybe, but I don't see that point.
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- No, I don't like neither Academy nor Sylvan being in, and yes, I think there should have been 6 factions (namely including Academy) in the original release, but cut them some slack, wanting ALL the old factions included is just not realistic, and I applaud adding a new faction - even if the Spring Spirit thing just goes beyond my understanding how anybody could ever believe fans would find that a good idea.
It -was- part of the tradition-breaking rant not an issue with the game itself. Only compared to the old games. And you know I am subjectively nostalgic
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- So they made adventure map look more pretty and realistic ... and that's just wrong, because ... why? I simply don't agree with you on this one. The H6 adventure map looks absolutely gorgeous. It might be the only one truely positive thing I have to say about the game, but I'll give them that one. The battlefields also look great, but the downside is that units have become so teeny-tiny that you can hardly make out what they are or tell them apart, much less see the details of their design.
To me it is wrong because the scaling is just... wrong. The very idea of it is that you literally look at a map, with everything in smaller scale. A single tile tree represents a forest, a 2x3 tile mountain represents a mountainous region. Your single-tile hero represents the hero + his entire army.
The exceptions were wandering monsters and resources because they required interactions and would disappear from the map. They represented an item or monster army in that overal location.
The issue I have with making a single-tile tree literally represent just a single tree is that it rips everything out of scale. It looks like a tree in proper scale compared to the hero on the horse, but that hero on his horse is NOT a hero on a horse, it STILL represents an entire army.
It may be fickle and pointless ranting on my part, but it bothers me. It's not the right scale. I never said there was anything wrong with the graphics, just that it doesn't -fit-. It belongs in an actual RPG game where your hero is just that, a lone hero. And not a representation of an entire army.
Hence it is wrong, to me.
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 08:03 PM |
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HoMM6 is a good, enjoyable game.
It's just as simple and brief as this.
I can see a lot of reasons to criticize it when you're a long-time fan of the series, like me, and I agree with some of the most crucial points against it. But anyone who honestly tries to convince me that HoMMVI is an obectively bad game is just voicing its prejudice.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 15, 2011 08:05 PM |
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Maybe, but I don't see that point.
Point was to make game more competitive, because all need the same ressources. I don't really agree it was necessary, I think the loss in what it gave to the game in management is far greater than the gain from added competitivity (in fact I don't think added competitivity was needed at all), but I guess that depends on the style of playing you like.
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To me it is wrong because the scaling is just... wrong. The very idea of it is that you literally look at a map, with everything in smaller scale. A single tile tree represents a forest, a 2x3 tile mountain represents a mountainous region. Your single-tile hero represents the hero + his entire army.
Arguably true. The fact that a town now is about the same size as a tree probably makes as little sense as the old maps.
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tabachanker
Hired Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 08:17 PM |
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I haven't yet, but I haven't played it since I played it a while ago either. I'll delete it soon enough.
Fair enough! I understand the try-before-you-buy concept, just make sure to eventually buy the game if you continue playing, or delete it completely.
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The thing is that Harpies and Basilisks are creatures from mythology and often featured in fantasy games. Ravagers, Tormentors, Maniacs, and Breeders however? Completely random monsters, no basis. Granted the same could be said about Pit Lords when they were first introduced in HoMM3.
I understood your point when I read your reply. I also prefer "real" recognizable creatures. And I agree that Inferno faction in Heroes VI is just a bunch of spiky humanoid red skinned deformities... well except the breeders which are... somewhat bulb-like red skinned deformities. Anyway, they're really uninteresting creatures.
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It's about finding the right balance to what extent random luck should affect your chances to win the game. If luck is the only element deciding the game for you, little of your input would really matter. If no luck is involved at all, one wrong choice could screw over your chances of success without any random chance to still provide you with a chance.
Completely agree here. Removing all luck made the game duller. I personally think the older games had enough alternatives to counter bad luck. And like I wrote in another post, the adventure map suffered the most from this luck removal : No more witch huts, spell shrines, etc.
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Point taken Except about voice acting. That's just bad.
Well, voice acting can be just a matter of opinion. I personally think it's OK. But I can also be wrong since I usually speak French and the finer details of the English language are probably lost on me!
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Probably not much of an issue since you can play it in off-line mode. You just wouldn't have access to special items and starting bonusses anymore. But it still feels like a useless feature. I have MSN and other IM-programs to chat with friends. Why would I want to interact in Conflux?
But I would hate it if I bought the game with features just to have them stripped from me further down the road. I agree the community interactions while playing the game are fairly useless, I still don't understand the blu-ray feature of "post on facebook while listening the a movie". I'm listening to a movie, I don't want to chat with people! Same thing with Heroes. I'm playing the game right now. I don't want to post on facebook while doing it.
But there are other conflux features a like: The "Dynasty Weapons" (though they're too powerful right now) and the achievements.
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It was kinda prevented already when in HoMM V heroes got their unique skills which only applied to the creatures of their own faction. Ever since it became pointless to mix armies since they wouldn't benefit from it - only Warlocks could work with any mix of armies. But that trend is continued by making it even easier to get rid of creatures not native to your town by just converting the town.
Yeah, I know Homm V started it and I hated it! I didn't play a lot of Homm V mainly because I was tired of the AI always fleeing as soon as the combat started. But I played enough to know that mixing creatures was generally a bad idea.
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- No, I don't agree with cutting the ressources, but that doesn't mean they didn't have a point with doing it, and that they are to some extent even right.
Maybe, but I don't see that point.
Me neither. All it did was, again, making the adventure map duller.
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- No, I don't like neither Academy nor Sylvan being in, and yes, I think there should have been 6 factions (namely including Academy) in the original release, but cut them some slack, wanting ALL the old factions included is just not realistic, and I applaud adding a new faction - even if the Spring Spirit thing just goes beyond my understanding how anybody could ever believe fans would find that a good idea.
It -was- part of the tradition-breaking rant not an issue with the game itself. Only compared to the old games. And you know I am subjectively nostalgic
I think it's an issue when you only have 5 factions and the game is as bug-riddled as it is now. Everything was over-simplified and we still got a game buggy as hell.
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted December 16, 2011 12:13 AM |
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- There seems to be a lack of obviously useless creatures. Some might call this a good thing but it feels strange to me. Zombies were useless meatsacks but did anyone actually MIND having them as tier two necro units? It's always the useless and crappy units that you can't help but like for their uselessness. Is there anyone who DIDN'T like the HoMM 1/2 peasants? Those adorable 1-HP twerps...
Apart from all the other extreme nonsense you wasted half a good thread's page for (like disliking detailed map and creature designs), this one really discredited your opinion.
You have to be joking me. Liking Peasants and Zombies? I don't know what kind of nostalgia fetish you are suffering from, but this is one of the most unreasonable complaints I've heard in a long time. They replace useless units with ones with actuall strategic value and we are supposed to whine?
I suggest you stick to HOMM 1-3, the best way to satisfy your minimalistic retro cravings. Jeez, some people really drive me up the wall.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted December 16, 2011 12:19 AM |
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He's not alone. It's difficult to take a spiked Ghoul seriously.
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted December 16, 2011 12:34 AM |
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He's not alone. It's difficult to take a spiked Ghoul seriously.
A spiked Ghoul that can rush AND have physical damage reduction AND gain additional movement against certain enemies over... an ability-less Zombie that only knows how to be a meatshield?
Any-friggin-time.
Like I said, certain people really need to stick to HOMM III and spare the rest of us from such nonsense.
We all agree on the objectively negative elements of the game (bugs, town screens, skill trees, oversimplification, etc.), but discussions like "why don't we make the game 2D again?" are downright laughable.
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted December 16, 2011 01:37 AM |
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@Moonlith:
This is coming several hours late, I guess, but if you're going to pirate a game, do everybody a favor and don't publish that information on a public forum. Especially in the context of reviewing a game, it gives the false impression that pirating games is acceptable and/or encouraged, which places the owners of the forum in an uncomfortable position.
Similarly, it has the undesirable effect of undermining your credibility; yes, for the sole reason that you didn't pay for the game. Regardless of the points you make, or the validity thereof, you lose credibility when you reach those points and judgments through illegal means.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: piracy is illegal, and discussing or condoning piracy violates the terms of use that you agreed to when you created your user account for this site.
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