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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 20, 2012 05:54 PM |
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@ohforfsake
What the facts do prove beyond a reasonable doubt is that
(1) Posts from the Duke Falcon and Mentat accounts originated from the same physical location, even though the content of their posts implied otherwise. Thus, the facts prove beyond a reasonable doubt that at least one of them was lying.
(2) Duke Falcon, or someone posting under his name, was posting information on the internet when he was supposedly in a coma. (we have undeniable proof on this). I can think of no plausible explanation why Mentat (assuming for a second it's a different person) would be using Duke Falcon's account to post stuff about a video game on the internet. Why would anyone post ripped game images from your friend's account while he's dying of cancer?
(3) When Mentat was given an opportunity to explain these facts, he/she did not or could not.
Those three alone were enough to convince the whole Mod Squad and our decision was unanimous.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted January 20, 2012 06:10 PM |
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Quote:
Although I should say, if you don't believe Mentat is Duke, at least we know that Duke is posting on other sites, so obviously he is not in the state (unconcious, only breathing with the help of the machine) he has mention in the thread, so the sickness was obviously a lie.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but all that was registred was that the IP address were used at other homepages (how this was done, I don't really understand). Considering that in recent years some people need to go through proxies to actually use the internet in social activites and as such this might even be the standard on certain computers, and given that you want to use stationary proxies, odds are that you'll shuffle through the same bunch of IP's as someone else, if unlucky.
@Doom
Again please correct me if I am mistaken, but as far as I know, all you can check is the physical location of the server which have the given IP address (and some other variables, but they all only locate one to the server as far as I know). Even if Duke and Mentat used the same computer, couldn't Mentat very well have been Duke's girlfriend who did not want to use heroescommunity, but maybe changed her mind, yet didn't want to come off as Duke's girlfriend? I mean that doesn't seem unreasonable in my opinion. Of course it's not particular likely, there could be so many reasons. I can't help, but wonder, what Duke's response was.
I think I have already adressed (3).
About (2), it would be nice to know if it was the same IP, the same account name, or what you actually observed.
If it indeed was someone using an account name "Duke_Falcon", with the same IP address and "Duke_Falcon" is not a common choice or a logical choice for people who've both this choice in common as well as said IP, then yeah, I could understand how that seems very suspicious.
I'd gladly give examples of what I mean with logical choice, in a less obvious way. A friend of mine which I have lost contact with always happen to use the same username. When we were younger I once caught him on a... blushful homepage (which I also used), guessed his password and made some fun of him using his account. Anyway as a result he didn't want to use the account anymore (though he wasn't upset at me or anything), and through bad habit I ended up using his account in stead of my old one which I forgot the password to.
I imagine had we been in circumstances where we'd also for some reason have shared IP addresses because we would go on the internet through the same server, then I could imagine now that I have lost contact with him, that someone would maybe see me using his account and thinking it was him.
Anyway, I am not saying I know if you were right or wrong. I just don't think IP addresses is very convincing these days.
And if I may as a user of the community, I'd like to suggest that he gets a second chance, after all, I think he's one of the better members around here (if he even wants to come back that is).
Edit:
Quote:
I guess this says it all
Read number #2....
I read number four. What oath???
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 20, 2012 06:27 PM |
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Quote:
@Doom
Again please correct me if I am mistaken, but as far as I know, all you can check is the physical location of the server which have the given IP address (and some other variables, but they all only locate one to the server as far as I know). Even if Duke and Mentat used the same computer, couldn't Mentat very well have been Duke's girlfriend who did not want to use heroescommunity, but maybe changed her mind, yet didn't want to come off as Duke's girlfriend? I mean that doesn't seem unreasonable in my opinion. Of course it's not particular likely, there could be so many reasons. I can't help, but wonder, what Duke's response was.
They have claimed to be in different physical locations while posting from the same IP. There is nothing more to add here.
Unfortunately, we can't publish Duke's response, since we respect the idea of HCM being a private place to talk.
Quote:
About (2), it would be nice to know if it was the same IP, the same account name, or what you actually observed.
We have checked and on the other forums, the account named "Duke_Falcon" used the same IP range as the account on HC, making it unmistakably the same person.
If it was just IP address, we wouldn't really bother, but as I said, there was a lot of suspicious behavior, and the proof I explained above, along with Duke/Mentat's inability to explain it. All of that combined lead us to the conclusive action Corribus explained in the masterpost of this thread.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 20, 2012 06:41 PM |
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Not even I master of the words am able to collect myself when presented with such a heavy accusation. ( I was presented with a similar random one recently and didn't know wtf was going on )
A real chance should be allowed for the defendant, to, erm defend himself. We owe that son of of a ***** the benefit of the doubt, and if not, atleast we can all get out of this with a closed case.
The main reason for pleading for a tribunal is personal rather then out of compassion. If I get accused of something or if I died and someone made an entire arse of my account while I'm 6ft under, then I'd be pissed (wait what?) and I would want a fair trial where I'd had enough time to find out what really happened not be lashed witha ccusations on the spot nad made to answer for crimes I may or may not have commited, if not then my case would be as transparant as a mountain spring and atleast ya'll would get a good story out of it.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted January 20, 2012 06:48 PM |
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Quote:
They have claimed to be in different physical locations while posting from the same IP. There is nothing more to add here.
But it doesn't exclude stationary IP proxies. It even makes sense with the different repeating IP's this way.
Quote:
Unfortunately, we can't publish Duke's response, since we respect the idea of HCM being a private place to talk.
That's fair, but doesn't seem very fair when you don't want to let him explain himself in a way others can evaluate. I still hold on that he's not the one to give a satisfying explanation, it'd be much smarter to ask him into how he actually go onto the net, that could maybe explain a lot which he didn't know as well.
Quote:
We have checked and on the other forums, the account named "Duke_Falcon" used the same IP range as the account on HC, making it unmistakably the same person.
It's very suspicious, but not unmistakably. I already told how such thing could happen in a specific and a general way.
Quote:
there was a lot of suspicious behavior[...], along with Duke/Mentat's inability to explain it.
I can't see how behaviour such as stuff that doesn't add up in posts is any evidence at all. Go through my posts and a ton of stuff won't add up, because I lie on a regular basis, it's not against the rules to lie. I think I already mentioned how similar typing as well as inability to explain something from said persons perspective doesn't make sense is obviously not much proof.
Quote:
All of that combined lead us to the conclusive action Corribus explained in the masterpost of this thread.
I understand based on the duke_falcon with identical IP on a different forum at a time that should not be possible that it's even likely Duke were not ill or not as ill as he said. I honestly don't know, I personally would just not think it's sufficient to start banning someone considering that neither Duke nor Mentat were in anyway "problem posters" or whatever, and I'm still not sure how Mentat fits into all of this.
Anyway, I am honestly not interested in discussing this. I think it's a shame and I were really dissapointed with the permanent ban, that it was made public in this way and the way people reacted. If you want some last words in this discussion you're very welcome. If you have some extra info to add, I'll maybe reply some other day or later tonight, but this is really an unpleasent discussion. So thanks for considering my viewpoint and giving good and honest responses.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 20, 2012 06:51 PM |
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On top of what Doomforge has already posted, I'd like to add three other comments about this decision:
(1) While the Mod Squad had its suspicions for some time, it was several community members whose concerns prompted our formal investigation of Duke Falcon. Community members also provided some tips as to where the evidence could be found. We all agreed until that point that no action could be taken because there was no evidence. The reason I am sharing this with you is to convey two key points. First, this was not just a top-down operation. It was primarily a response to requests from the Community to look into it. Second, this was not a quick operation. We acted only after several members of the Community shared their concerns, and then only after a week long investigation. Therefore accusations that the Mod Squad preceded recklessly are unfounded.
(2)The accusation that “newer” members of the Mod Squad are solely responsible for this decision is untrue. In point of fact, several of the veteran moderators, including Elvin, angelito and Alcibiades, have been very active in discussing the evidence in this case and making a decision about what to do with it. This, therefore, as well as nightterror’s banning, was not a unilateral action by newer moderators. Banning can only occur with consent of the administrator in any case, so trying to pin that or any other action on overzealous Young Turk moderators is clearly ludicrous. If it seems like there are more people being silenced or banned now, it is probably because there is a stronger, more dedicated moderator presence at HC now. You may recall that prior to the latest round of moderator hirings, HC members were very vocal about the lack of order here.
(3)I think you’ll all agree that the Mod Squad has made no efforts to restrain discussion of this decision here in this forum. This is certainly not a characteristic of tyranny.
Finally, I want to say that I take umbrage at the accusation that moderators do not care about Heroes Community. On the contrary, I volunteered for this job becuase I care about the Community very much. You are certainly entitled to your opinion about how moderators decide to handle certain situations, and I, for one, have stated numerous times that I'm open to suggestions and constructive feedback, but please, do not ever question our commitment to this place or the people who post here.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 20, 2012 06:59 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
It's proven I'm too naive despite all the **** I've seen.
The moment we lose this caring "naivety" and compassion HC will become one with the rest of the internet - another sad and miserable place.
The occasional smartass who overuses this trust is just another fact of life.
And this is why I appreciate veco so much.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 20, 2012 07:02 PM |
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I think the delicate nature of this case should make it obvious that we were extra careful with gathering avidence before we acted on this. Pretty much all the current members of the ModSquad were asked about their oppinion on this (with the exclusions being those that have been absent for a longer time) and the evaluation was unanimous that we were convinced by what evidence we gathered.
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What will happen now?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 20, 2012 07:07 PM |
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I don't want to enter this... whatever it is but I'd like to mention a two things:
First - an IP address is not a physical address and it alone is not a clear indication of certain user's location in the Internet. IP addresses can be dynamically re-assigned, masked, re-translated and so on. A much safer bet is if you have both the IP address and the MAC address of the device in question but this could be rather difficult depending on... a number of things. In any case, usually the IP address is enough to say that device X is indeed the device which you are looking for (proxies could make it difficult here though) because the vast majority of the people don't know how to execute or will not bother with sophisticated exercises just to hide their identities or pose as somebody else. Not for the purpose of forum trolling anyway.
Second: Quote:
I imagine had we been in circumstances where we'd also for some reason have shared IP addresses because we would go on the internet through the same server
The Internet traffic is not routed through "servers" (although certain "servers" could play certain roles) and a "shared IP" scenario is possible only if the end users' traffic is being NAT-ed, i.e. the ISP has one public IP address through which a larger numbers of private IP addresses are exiting to Internet. The public IP addresses are unique - except when duplicated but that's rare and is considered a fault, not something working normally - so two physical devices can't have the same public IP address (it will probably work but both of them will have problems). Most ISPs larger than the neighbourhood's provider give public addresses to the end users so usually the public address which the forum admins see is the address that certain forum member has, not some ISP's interface.
Right... carry on.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 20, 2012 07:15 PM |
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Why would anyone need to hear some explanation from Duke, you did not get enough lies? The IP concordance is the icy on the cake, before that, there were enough proofs about D/M using same syntax (slash inversed-unique to both of them only), same abbreviations, same grammar errors, writing on exactly same subjects and using same dramatic tone, playing same games, having same interests. At this point, if there were two different persons, it would have been the miracle of cloning only.
Some people have their unique style in forums, quickly identifiable, as Gootch (constant sarcasm), Tsar (99% of posts edited), Cepheus (look how beautiful is my english), Pacemaker (news paper style), Elodin (Ameeerica!)), Nocturnal (suspicion and self victimization), Duke also. It is his unique style which was 100% instantly cloned by a new comer.
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Era II mods and utilities
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selcy
Famous Hero
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posted January 20, 2012 08:44 PM |
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What he did hurt me but I am lucky that I have some good friends on here and a fiance to look out for me.
Thank you William and Lexxan for sending me HCM's to see if I was ok and of course Acu for being there for me to talk to on skpe and email.
Tsar is right if he was any kind of man he would apologise, I emailed him to ask why he did that to me and he couldn't even be bothered to answer me.
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selcy
Famous Hero
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posted January 20, 2012 08:53 PM |
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Edited by selcy at 20:57, 20 Jan 2012.
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Onforf you know my husband died of cancer and I watched him go from being able bodied and working 6am-2pm doing a physically demanding job to a guy who couldn't walk more than a few steps without collapsing. He lost nearly 3/4 of his body weight amongst a lot of other things and I nursed him till the end. Duke was sending me HCM's and emails telling me he was scared of dying and being in pain and didn't know how to tell his family and friends etc. I actually cried thinking another person being taken away by cancer and leaving behind family and friends. That was pure evil and I for one don't feel sorry for him and I won't forgive him either.
1) Mentat told everyone Duke had stopped breathing and was on a life support machine, if your body is full of cancer they would NOT put you on a life support machine what would be the point.
2) The day everyone found out he was lying he sent me an email saying he had woken from the dark and even though he was weak he wanted to email me and it took him 20 minutes.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted January 20, 2012 08:54 PM |
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I guess so, but i would of rather he did not pull the prank at all & he is not sick.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 20, 2012 08:57 PM |
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One final clarification, because there seems to be some confusion:
Neither Duke Falcon nor Mentat have been "banned" from HC, by which I mean, "have had their frequently used IP addresses blocked". Only Valeriy can do this.
Both the Duke Falcon and Mentat accounts have been silenced and nuked to disgraceful status, meaning that these accounts cannot post in the public forum. However they still may read posts and use the private messaging function.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted January 20, 2012 09:00 PM |
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Yup he can get messages.
Yes he can read everything that is said on here as well.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted January 20, 2012 09:01 PM |
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Ah then we understand banned differently. I mean he and she as person(s) behind the account(s) has been restricted from participating in any activity at the homepage.
It's true that IP-banning usually means that you won't be able to actually even read on the forums, because the IP gets blocked in stead of the account.
But am I mistaken in if Duke actually wanted to reingage in posting on HC he'd be prohibited?
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 20, 2012 09:07 PM |
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That's correct, he is unable to post in the public forums even if he wanted to.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 20, 2012 09:13 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Thank you William and Lexxan for sending me HCM's to see if I was ok
Lexxan was asking other people if they were okay? I think it's generally accepted protocol that people should be asking him if he's okay, what with him being Lexxan and all.
I thought, for the occasion being, an exception was warranted.
Though it would be nice if people would ask me. ^__^
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 20, 2012 09:14 PM |
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Quote:
Tsar -
Please tone down the rhetoric a bit. Just because this user has been punished does not give people the right to insult him with impunity. In the opening post, I invited Community members to provide constructive feedback. Repeatedly calling him a "son of a *****" is not constructive and, more to the point, is against the CoC.
I'm just trying to be neutral without outright contradicting myself.
Oh and mods does the IP originate from Hungary?
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted January 20, 2012 10:01 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 22:03, 20 Jan 2012.
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Go ahead.
What? Why would I... there's like half a mile of text here!
Read it. Trust me. I've got a good feeling about this one.
"So the evidence for those two being the same person are..." oh come on, Ego, it's a freaking wall of text about the probability of the Duke guy actually having both cancer and a girlfriend. I don't even understand why Forf would-
You're right. You should stop procrastinating and go back to studying for that exam then.
Son of a... Fine. "...IP addresses were conclusive 6-7 years ago..." I can't believe I'm doing this.
Shhh.
***
It's been half an hour now. Studying is starting to seem like the better option.
You're almost there. Look!
"When a poster impresses me... if you look through my earlier posts... imitate Baklava... because I thought they were cool and subconsciously started to write like them. ...You arsehole.
It's beautiful isn't it.
You ****ing arsehole, Ego.
Read it again.
No.
Just... one more time.
Screw you. You saw it, like, an hour before I did, anyway. What was the point of me having to read through the whole thing in the first place?
You know how much I love the sound of our voice.
That's it. I'm drinking my balls off and learning how to drive a bicycle in the park again.
You wouldn't dare.
I'm calling the crew to come along to watch. Remember how much they enjoyed it the last time? Especially the chicks.
Wait... let's talk about this... PUT THE ****ING PHONE DOWN
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This thread is pages long: 
