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| Thread: Israeli tourists killed in a bus explosion |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Geny
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posted July 19, 2012 08:13 PM |
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Iran knows that Israel won't strike back because of this. Not at Iran at least. At Hezbollah - maybe (although not probable), but not directly against Iran. And even if it did, this will probably help Iran to get out of the sh**hole they got themselves in, because the world will take pity on them and remove the sanctions to help Iran recover from an Israeli attack.
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Salamandre
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posted July 19, 2012 11:26 PM |
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On which planet you live? If Israel goes to war with Iran, USA puppet will drag everyone around in.
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GunFred
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posted July 19, 2012 11:27 PM |
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I read news in swedish that the suspected suicide bomber was dressed as a tourist and wore sporty clothes, caucasian appearance, long hair and had a false american drivingslicense on him. He also apparently wandered the airport at least an hour before going abord the bus.
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Zenofex
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posted July 20, 2012 06:56 AM |
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Here is the prime suspect. According to the latest news, he's not an ex-Guantanamo prisoner as initially speculated.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 20, 2012 09:17 AM |
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@Salamandre
Tell me this: when was the last Israeli military action that wasn't condemned by most of the Western world, despite the USA back-up?
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kodial79
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posted July 23, 2012 09:42 AM |
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Quote:
Dozens of bombings a year in Iraq - nobody gives a crap.
A single bombing in Bulgaria on Israeli tourists - OHSH!T SON WW3!!!
All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
So, far as I can see, almost nobody believes them. So they don't give a damn, anyway. They don't care if people don't buy their stories as long as they got something to say in the UN and bend it to their will. Just like Powell showed them a vial of dirty water and that was somehow very convincing that Iraq had WMD's.
Just now I've been reading in the news that Iran was planning to attack 20 different countries! Wow! Iran just hates us so much... Oh wait, so says Israel. But they're getting so desperate, it makes them dangerous. And the Olympics are only a few days away...
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 23, 2012 05:59 PM |
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Quote:
Just now I've been reading in the news that Iran was planning to attack 20 different countries
Correction: 20 attack attempts were made in the last year in different countries. So says Israel.
I'm not going to claim that I can count them, but in the last few months there were several attempts and each one of them were reported right after they happened, so I do remember them.
And the potential danger to the Olympics is not an Israeli "invention", it is what the investigation teams in Bulgaria say.
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Elodin
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posted July 23, 2012 06:05 PM |
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The attack occurred on the anniversary of another attack on Israelis in which Iran was involved. It is quite plausible that Iran is directly behind the attack or that they funded the organization that carried out the attack.
Certainly if nations fool around and allow Iran to finish development of nuclear weapons they are being very, very foolish. I think sooner or later Israel will take action to preserve itself. Iran already said it wants to blow Israel off the map.
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Salamandre
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posted July 23, 2012 07:06 PM |
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Well, I for one believe Israel deserves a severe beating for all its past, present and future actions, so I wouldn't mind if it goes to war with big guys around, but alone this time, please.
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Zenofex
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posted July 23, 2012 07:06 PM |
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I wonder why should I feel uncomfortable with the Iranian nuclear program (which is yet to be proven as a military one) but not with the Israeli nuclear weapons which are a public secret. At this point Iran can disappear from the map far easier than Israel.
By the way, no matter who's behind this terrorist act, Iran is already under siege so you really have to believe that its leaders are idiots to the last man to provoke the western states in such a stupid manner. Not to mention that the US military presence in the Gulf has recently increased in quite an unambiguous manner.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 23, 2012 07:16 PM |
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@Salamandre
When was the last war Israel wasn't alone in?
@Zenofex
The difference is that Israel never claimed that another country should be wiped off the map. Neither is it affiliated with terrorist groups such as Hezbollah.
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Ghost
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posted July 23, 2012 07:17 PM |
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Edited by Ghost at 20:00, 23 Jul 2012.
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EDIT: God has commanded to conquer Palestine, later God rejects Israel. Jews bought many Palestine land lots, etc. If Iran attacked, it is not the end marker. Bible prophecy the end of Babylon. One of the left and right religion, and others continue to attack the right religious groups.
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Adrius
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posted July 23, 2012 07:18 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 19:20, 23 Jul 2012.
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Got Iranian relatives, there are several times a day over there that there are just complete blackouts in electricity. Like if lightning had taken out the system, except this is due to not having enough electricty.
I can't say that Iran is not developing nuclear weapons, but they're sure as hell in need of nuclear power. There is simply no other option.
EDIT:
They could of course just start using their oil supplies for power instead of selling it to the west, but then they'd DEFINTELY get invaded ^^
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Salamandre
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posted July 23, 2012 07:26 PM |
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@Geny: it never fought alone, you are aware that USA sends daily to Israel 8 millions USD, are you?
My opinion is that Israel politics are acting childishly arrogant because they are sure of back up from USA. My only wish would be to see them alone for once, learn a humility lesson and change their aggressive politics for ever. Probably wouldn't happen, as USA government is fully sold to jews, not a secret though.
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Zenofex
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posted July 23, 2012 08:06 PM |
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Quote:
The difference is that Israel never claimed that another country should be wiped off the map.
They can't afford to make such claims. Israel has zero friends in its own region and isn't overly popular among the masses in the western countries, which are the only reason (mainly the US) why it still exists. Other than that, Israel will certainly be much more comfortable without a powerful Muslim state close to it, that's clear.
Quote:
Neither is it affiliated with terrorist groups such as Hezbollah.
I hope you realise that the border between "a terrorist group" and "freedom fighters" is very, very thin and entirely a matter of perception.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 23, 2012 10:00 PM |
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@Salamandre
There is the financial help, yes. However, even USA isn't fond of some of Israel's action ever since Obama was elected and the rest of the Western world is usually more eager to condemn and blame Israel and not HAMAS. From a political point of view Israel is not anywhere near where it wants to be.
I also can't understand to what do you refer when you mention Israel's childishly arrogant policies.
@Zenofex
The facts are that Iran made such claims and Israel didn't. The rest is your opinion. One which I strongly disagree with, because I choose to believe that Israel haven't made such claims because it really doesn't want to harm anyone who doesn't intend to harm it. You're welcome to try and convince me otherwise using examples from the past.
As for the line between freedom fighters and terrorists. It may be fine, but to me it is also very clear - an organization that intentionally targets civilians is a terrorist organization, no matter what cause they are fighting for. Hezbollah falls into that category.
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Salamandre
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posted July 23, 2012 10:46 PM |
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I don't know about others, but 24,813 palestinian homes demolished since 1967 looks to me as a genocide more than self defense. And as Zenofex pointed, the limit between freedom fighter and terrorist is arguable here. If Israel continues his politics leaded by force and aggression, should not whine later when victims retaliate, in the only manner they can.
And those 8 millions USD daily is NOT financial aid, but military aid.
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Zenofex
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posted July 23, 2012 10:47 PM |
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You can believe whatever you want but there are other facts as well. You want an example, so here's a recent one - there was a war in Lebanon (2006) not so long ago which was virtually an overkill reaction to a provocation from Hezbollah. If you can't recall what happened, check the Internet (what you should be able to recall is that shortly after the end of the war the western media behaved like this has never happened, just like with the US accusations about the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction). The "but we were attacked first" excuse just doesn't work in such cases.
As for what label you decide to put on someone or something - that's just you and that's what I tried to tell you with the above. I'm no fan of Hezbollah or any other similar organisation but I'm also no fan of the mainstream media representation of every ba$tard child of the western foreign policy in the Middle East as something evil that just grows there because the locals are... well, evil (except the Israeli of course).
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kodial79
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posted July 23, 2012 11:04 PM |
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Geny, Israel says BS. I saw no attempt from Iran to attack Cyprus or any other country. I don't know who attacked who but it was not Iran, a sovereign nation.
As far as I'm concerned, Iran is the good guy here, Israel's the bad guy. Iran's trying to get one nuclear factory to work while Israel got more nuclear warheads stored up than they got whatever else.
It's Israel that started this whole delirium about a possible war between it and Iran anyway, not the other way around. So as bad guys that they are too, I find them completely willing and able to carry out false flag operations, to draw world's sympathy on them and hatred against Iran if that is going to make their life long dream of annihilating Iran, to come true.
But if you think about it from Iran's point of view, why would they do it? So they perform a terrorist strike and they kill a couple hundred people in the Olympics. Then the western powers team up against them and wipe them off the planet. Are you kidding me? Who would be so suicidal?
The only one who has anything to gain out of it, is Israel. And let's just face the truth here, Israel does not want peace with Iran, they want a war. They have always wanted a war and lately they've been getting very anxious to start it.
As a concerned citizen of this god forsaken world, I see a mad man with nuclear weapons treatening to start a war near me. I say, Iran should hurry up and get nuclear weapons too, cause only then may that lunatic cower.
And Israel doesn't want to wipe off any country from the map? Ha! What a joke! Can you say Palestine?
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 24, 2012 06:30 PM |
bonus applied by Corribus on 25 Aug 2012. |
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@Salamandre
I have to admit that I don't have intimate knowledge and statistic of everything that happened since 1967 and since I don't know any truly neutral source of knowledge on the Israeli-Palestinian issue, I'd rather not pull data from the internet. What I do know is what has been happening since the year 2000 when I came here. The only major destructive activity I can remember is Operation Cast Lead of years 2008-2009 which started after a very extensive period of rockets being fired from the Gaza Strip into Israel's surrounding towns. I don't see anything genocidal in trying to kill the people who are constantly threatening Israeli citizens.
@Zenofex
I remember The Lebanon War of 2006 very well. I lived relatively up north, so I remember quite well the sound of falling rockets all around my house.
Whether you like it or not, Israel did not make the first move here. Two of its soldiers were kidnapped and it moved in as a retaliation. Any other country that cares for its people would have done the same. So the problematic issue here is the force with which it moved in. I'll grant you, it was probably bigger than what was needed to try and save those two soldiers. But that wasn't the only reason for the attack. Israel wanted to send a message, a message that sounded roughly like this: "You mess with us, you attack us, and you will so sorry you'd wish you'd never been born. So next time think carefully if it's worth it to provoke us."
And guess what? It worked. 6 years later and there was still no hostile action against coming from the Lebanon border. Was the war destructive? Yes. Did it do a lot of damage to Lebanon? Oh God yes. I've seen the pictures and I didn't like them more than you did. Was it excessive force? Don't know. Nobody does. Because nobody knows how long the peace on the border would have lasted if Israel acted more softly. Now you might say that this kind of approach is barbaric, oppressive and all-in-all evil. But before you do, I would ask you to stop for a minute and really think what your country should have done if it was invaded by foreign forces, in order to protect its citizens.
@kodial
You're right of course. Iran would never carry out terrorist attacks. Directly. They have their proxy - Hezbollah to do that. In times of the Cold War, whenever someone made a move it was assumed that that move was actually made by either USA or USSR, because almost everyone else was connected to them. And no one doubted it. And it was most probably true. Same thing applies here. It is hard to believe that Hezbollah would do something so major as bombing a bus full of tourist on foreign soil (if it really was their doing), without Iran knowing about it.
You're asking how can someone believe that Iran in its current state would be so stupid as to order an attack on civilians? Could be for ideological reasons, could be to gain domestic support or the support of other Muslim countries.
But let me ask you similar question: what would Israel gain from attacking Iran? You said that "The only one who has anything to gain out of it, is Israel. And let's just face the truth here, Israel does not want peace with Iran, they want a war. They have always wanted a war and lately they've been getting very anxious to start it.", but I really can't see what do you mean. Why would Israel benefit from war? Especially considering that if it will go to war, it won't be just against Iran. Most if not all of Israel's neighbours would join in on the party. It would hurt Israel financially, it will reduce morale and unless the war would a HUGE success on Israel's part the current coalition would fly right out of the window because the people here will protest against an unjustified war (Israelis are very good at protesting against the government, even because of little things, so this...). Tell me, what is it that Israel would gain?
As for Israel wanting to wipe Palestine off the map... first of, Palestine is not a country, but that's not the point right now. I think that if Israel wanted to wipe Palestine off the map, it would have already done so. There have been several opportunities during wars and operations. Sure the world would not like it, but I think it cold have been done. But instead, Israel retreated from Gaza Strip and by doing so actually moved it one step closer to independence. If that's not enough Israeli Prime Minister Benyamin Netanyahu is constantly calling for Mahmoud Abbas to start the talks. I guess you can blame different sides or both sides for it not working out, but I still can't see hoe is it so apparent to you that Israel wants to wipe Palestine of the map.
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