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| Thread: Best & Worst Spells |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 14, 2012 05:55 PM |
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Month 11? Even Implosion is pretty much useless in month 11.
Depending on the netural. Hm Heroes 3.. The Implosion King is so old-fashioned. When someone join 
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zombiewhacker
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 14, 2012 10:43 PM |
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Quote:
Worst Spells
Level 4: Fire Shield
I could see Fire Shield coming into play against "no retaliation" stacks of hydras, nagas, vampires, and the like.
It still wouldn't be my primary spell of choice, but as a second or third round spell, hey, what the heck?
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Star_King
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2012 04:27 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Normally zounds of dragons should be engaged with one powerful stack only, yes. It is easier to keep casualties low in this way.
"Normally zounds of dragons" is a self-contradictory sentence. Zounds of dragons is not normal. The game has been designed for relatively small number of creatures, stats, and levels. That's why there's a limited number of skill slots. The gap between Attack&Defense and Spell Power&Knowledge widens as the game progresses.
Only degenerate maps have zounds of dragons. It highlights author's poor understanding of the game and bad taste. Every game has its decline phase, where smarter people with better taste and move on to other games, and content generated is mostly crap.
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You have no idea what you're talking about. Go complete a beautiful single-player map such as Unleashing the Bloodthirsty and tell me that the author has "poor understanding and bad taste". The only people who would say stuff like this are people who have little actual experience in the matter.
You can have crappy single-player maps that have this sort of extreme, yes. But you can have beautiful ones too.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 15, 2012 05:58 AM |
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Don't bother, Borsuk is on a blind crusade vs HoMM3 and will denature any argument here.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted December 15, 2012 10:10 AM |
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Besides that, "zounds of whatever" is indeed a funny thing. But o.k., it's just a matter of gameplay and your personal preference. Kind of "more and bigger" is also an issue with new monsters. I thought it quite funny when i first saw these new "level 8" monsters. I would have preferred "level 0" monsters. But then again, it's just a matter of personal preferences.
Personally i think gigantic numbers of monsters fit well to necros. And maybe to some lower extend to the barbarians. To the other factions it does not fit that well.
Said this there is no "bad" taste, there is only personal taste. The difference in good or bad map is just: Is it interesting and fun to play, or is it not. So good or bad in this case is mostly a matter of personal preference. The whole thing about HoMM3 is to have some fun and not to find the masterplan for saving the world.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 15, 2012 12:08 PM |
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I usually don't like zounds of units either (except skeletons). Damage spells become useless, economy gets weird; you can afford units to fight zounds you can afford to buy any artifact like a minor one. No more secondary skills are added, and stuff like +1 to attack becomes just a drop in the ocean. Unless it is an erm map modified by a skilled scripter or standard game mechanics are manipulated in a very creative way, those maps usually do suck indeed.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted December 15, 2012 12:50 PM |
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Yea, legions of skeletons. I do like that, too.
But indeed that needs some balancing. And you're right, spells, regardless which one, become near obsolete if you have your 100 Pikemen and want to fight a legion of skeletons. Any spell is worst spell then 
But since i think legions of skeletons (and zombies and wights) fit very well to necros, i'm currently doing some scripting to a) enable necros to get that much, and b) do give other factions some very different counter measures. Not numbers, because simply increasing numbers for all seems boring (for me). So i have set up some extras for castle for now. Besides some more might related extras i've decided to enhance bless and prayer. So if a living creature is blessed it does double damage against undead. And if it is prayered it receives half damage from undead. I'm currently thinking of modifying this factor by some skills. Water magic obviously. Maybe sorcery. And artifacts like pendant of holiness and pendant of life. On the negative side curse and weakness may be taken into account.
With this these 2 spells become the "secret weapon" against undead. Looks nice, fits well and is fun.
For the other factions i'm still looking for ideas. For inferno the specialties to enhance might be misfortune and speed. For rampart this surely will be something around luck and troop health through first aid tent. We'll see
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 16, 2012 12:10 AM |
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There is nothing about game design, but only personal taste, as it was specified. Open editor, place 600 creatures, you have zounds. So clearly it was designed for that. Now if anyone wants to stick ans play the pathetic CD maps, which were probably done in a couple of days and then conclude this is Heroes 3, it is his choice.
There will always be good and bad mapmakers. The good player is the one who can distinguish them and does not jump to definitive conclusions too fast.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 16, 2012 12:32 AM |
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That's a weird logic, with map editor I can put 5000 behemoths on a hero's way on day one. Does it mean it was designed for that? No, it just means it's not restricted.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 16, 2012 12:53 AM |
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No sorry. That's the difference between good and bad map, realistic progression. There is nothing wrong to meet zounds of dragons at the moment you can defeat them, instead of being blocked by them too early.
As anything, Heroes 3 has also his officious manual. The spells usage pattern is very different from single to multiplayer. If one wants to understand Heroes basic grammar in single, he must learn them from source, not from official manual, which is just the start.
The source is:
Tew 1&2 by Kispalko
Unleashing the bloodthirsty by Tanzi
The lord of war by Fiery Phoenix
To kill for power by Commando
Vengeance is mine by Commando
Once those artworks enough studied, people can finally argue in a constructive manner about mechanics, design and limitations. Because those scenarios are the backbone of everything which was created later.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Star_King
Known Hero
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posted December 16, 2012 04:38 AM |
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Quote:
No sorry. That's the difference between good and bad map, realistic progression. There is nothing wrong to meet zounds of dragons at the moment you can defeat them, instead of being blocked by them too early.
As anything, Heroes 3 has also his officious manual. The spells usage pattern is very different from single to multiplayer. If one wants to understand Heroes basic grammar in single, he must learn them from source, not from official manual, which is just the start.
The source is:
Tew 1&2 by Kispalko
Unleashing the bloodthirsty by Tanzi
The lord of war by Fiery Phoenix
To kill for power by Commando
Vengeance is mine by Commando
Once those artworks enough studied, people can finally argue in a constructive manner about mechanics, design and limitations. Because those scenarios are the backbone of everything which was created later.
To Kill for Power was made by Tang Wen En. And Commando = Andrew Tanzi. But yeah I agree ;P
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 16, 2012 04:48 AM |
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Yeah sorry, memory fails, it has been several years I played them for the 10th time or so.
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Era II mods and utilities
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favio
Hired Hero
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posted December 16, 2012 09:04 AM |
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Guys, are you agree with me, view air and view earth are like cheat-spells at expert air/earth magic?
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted December 16, 2012 09:42 AM |
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Salamandre,thanks for pointing to sources,will check them out.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted December 16, 2012 10:42 AM |
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Quote:
Guys, are you agree with me, view air and view earth are like cheat-spells at expert air/earth magic?
Well, somehow. But i think the effect is not that big. At the time you get expert earth magic, most of the map should already be revealed. Maybe except those xxl maps with the patched editor (btw, where is the link to that patch?). Here these spells may be really like cheating.
I think, one of the most effective spells, at least at expert, is berserk. Does anyone remember the scenario from the RoE campaign, where dungeon had to conquer Steadwick? With Gen. Morgan having hundreds of Gryffins and many many of anything else. The tactics to win here is: Get some waste troops, attack, berserk, wait until they have done their job, and flee. Then repeat, until Morgans troops are no more than you have. Then get him. The most fun part here is to berserk a group where Gryffins and Crusaders are next to another. The crusaders double attack, the gryffins double retailate
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 16, 2012 11:46 AM |
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Quote:
At the time you get expert earth magic, most of the map should already be revealed.
Well, in optimal play we should try to get expert earth before week 2, so map is far from being revealed (most MP games end before week 3). Personally I find both of them very useful and they are even required in my maps to continue. Many mapmakers hide artefacts and resources when objects allow it, hence view air is a must to get them. Both are very precious on random maps, assuming one does not use cheat codes. I don't see how they can be considered as cheating, as to be effective you need to train some hero to expertises.
Berserk is the spell of the weak, and is banned from most maps. One of reasons is that AI can't use it. The other is that it kills any attempt to challenge. With WoG you can give it then take away in specific situations but with SoD, once you get it, is definitive and nobody can stand anymore in your way.
Except zounds of dragons 
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Era II mods and utilities
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 16, 2012 05:20 PM |
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I want to second what? AI used to tree node the same as the game of chess, for example, someone conjured slow and the AI is responsible berserk Archangel is also slow, AI conjured for example, when the archangel, Master Genie has also received Berserk.
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Titowam
Hired Hero
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posted December 23, 2012 04:32 AM |
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Even more to rant on! (okay, no XD)
Added my opinion on the best/worst non-combat spells and updated the list a slight bit.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 23, 2012 04:49 AM |
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Good You've managed the game! But protection magic when the damage would be 5500 and you get only 2750, or 11 archangels.  how did you manage?
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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titowam
Hired Hero
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posted December 24, 2012 07:40 PM |
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Edited by titowam at 19:40, 24 Dec 2012.
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How often does that happen? XD
Also, anti-magic is your friend!
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