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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted November 08, 2018 06:34 PM |
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Good work to all involved!  You know, H2 is my favorite of all Heroes games, followed by H4. And if there's such version with H3 improvements coming, I would be pleased to try, just for the sake of nostalgia.
Anyway, a question, given that I couldn't find the information easily: the upgrades, did you guys adapted all units to have upgrades, or did you keep upgrades a special feature only for some creatures? I do prefer the latter, like it was in H2, which was also something I liked in H4, making upgrades as unique as they should be, not generic. But I understand if you needed to make upgrades a universal feature, if you are intending things to be as balanced as possible.
Either way, good luck with this explendid work! 
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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orzie 
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 08, 2018 09:54 PM |
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Edited by orzie at 21:56, 08 Nov 2018.
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The upgrades, despite being available for every creature in early mod builds, are now changed according to the H2 scheme where only some of the creatures could be upgraded, and some (Dragons) upgraded twice.
This is related not only to my personal preference, and probably preferences of the team, but also to special design features of Heroes 2 where creatures were designed in a special way (no upgrades for animals or "half-minded" creatures, no upgrades for level 1*, no upgrades for neutrals, the presence of upgrades for humans, post-humans and mages, etc.). This was visible in earlier mod builds when some creature upgrades felt really unnecessary and sometimes had questionable graphics.
*In H3SW, an exception was made for the Bandit (Rogue upgrade) in order to make the creature fitting more to the Dervish lineup color scheme. Also, a reference to H3 Rogues with one of the knives replaced with a sword.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted November 08, 2018 10:15 PM |
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Very nice, Orzie! I'm even more willing to test when this version releases!
One thing that made me really crestfallen when H3 was launched, besides the graphics which felt somewhat odd, were this generic feeling of upgrades for the sake of upgrades and the forced uber LV 7 creature (adding Angels to human faction, for example). It was always so epic having to kill black dragons with Crusaders! =D
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 08, 2018 10:31 PM |
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Edited by orzie at 22:33, 08 Nov 2018.
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There were a lot of arguments about the Angels, but I am uncompromising and confident about their different atmosphere and concept when compared to the atmosphere created for the Heroes 2 Knight. So, Crossbowmen were left instead, as a nod to Lords of the Realm/Lords of Magic series by Sierra Impressions, a series of games which were somehow related to HoMM series and most probably inspired by each other.
In short, H2 Knight is more medieval-themed, with the Dark Age architecture and other aspects of the faction. In contrary, Heroes 3 Castle faction is closer to the Renaissance, where the depictions of angels were met more often in visual art, including sculpture, and the whole concept is more natural for such personae. People wishing for Angels are generally more used to Heroes 3, and probably do feel the atmosphere of this game better than the one of the prequel.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted November 08, 2018 10:42 PM |
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Yeah, that's right. Also the addition of the Monks helped giving a more Religious tone related to 'prayers', and the attendance of God and Angels, whilst the only religious relation the H2 human-theme had were the paladins and crusaders.
Genies, Cyclopi and Phoenixes were also a weak last-tier creatures. Did you let them in a similar fashion of H2? And the new ones?
Sorry for asking these questions if they were already answered elsewhere, but they just sprung to me. ^_^
Another thing I'm curious about is regarding the flyers: do they travel all the battlefield as in H2 or did you let them work as in H3?
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 08, 2018 10:57 PM |
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Edited by orzie at 23:05, 08 Nov 2018.
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Quote:
Yeah, that's right. Also the addition of the Monks helped giving a more Religious tone related to 'prayers', and the attendance of God and Angels, whilst the only religious relation the H2 human-theme had were the paladins and crusaders.
The topic of religion in Heroes 2 was covered superficially, with even such object as "temple" having a typical Greek temple look, and all factions gaining morale from praying there. In Heroes 3, this was changed to Crystal Dragon Jesus and obviously devilish concepts of the Inferno faction. So, yes, Christianity is more apparent in the sequel, while H2 is more fairy-tale and mythical. It's simpler in concept, too.
Quote:
Genies, Cyclopi and Phoenixes were also a weak last-tier creatures. Did you let them in a similar fashion of H2? And the new ones?
Yes and no. Phoenixes are still the fastest creatures in the game, resistant to a selection of spells, less tough than Dragons and able to do a 2-hex attack. Cyclopi are transfered from H2 having their 2-hex attack and Paralyze ability. The Genies, however, are not able to halve enemy stacks because such an ability is too strong even for a neutral creature, not even mentioning their now-conventional creature status. Instead, they have an Age ability (from H3 Ghost Dragons), which is a powerful level 5 curse spell and corresponds to some mythological data about the behaviour of Genies. The growth rates of the last creature tier are transfered from H2, with Genies and Wyverns also being +2 seventh tier creatures.
Quote:
Another thing I'm curious about is regarding the flyers: do they travel all the battlefield as in H2 or did you let them work as in H3?
In the upcoming v0.8, all flyers do not have the ability to cross the whole battlefield at once. However, their speed stats are somehow altered to provide a more clear hint about their abilities regarding movement.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 08, 2018 11:24 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 23:25, 08 Nov 2018.
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You more than deserve it, sir Albe! 
orzie said:
People wishing for Angels are generally more used to Heroes 3, and probably do feel the atmosphere of this game better than the one of the prequel.
Maybe, I don't know, in my case I played h3 much more than h2 yet I prefer the h2 theme for that town.
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Morglin
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 08, 2018 11:25 PM |
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Are abandoned units from old beta are free to use? For example for porting them to Project Ironfist? I mean those which display fine on H2 palette.
Maybe their not good enough for H3TSW, but I think it would be shame to just waste them. I played H2 so many times and I want something different, for example more unit upgrades in towns. If most of the graphics are actually done, I think that it could be a good idea for mod.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted November 09, 2018 12:07 AM |
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Nice, orzie, thanks for the answers!
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted November 09, 2018 12:12 AM |
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hey incredible job on those designer diary write-ups lads, really compelling stuff, following the evolution of that mod! I can't wait to play this (figure of speech don't worry, you take your time hehe) lol
for sure I would not add the Angels for lore reasons (I do not believe they had popped their heads above the parapet until the Night of Shooting Stars, which was after Heroes 2), although it is well worth bearing in mind the Monks of Might and Magic 6, proving that Enroth has the good old generic religion like many more settings lol
hey I meant to ask, did you guys think of adding the NPCs from MM6 as heroes to the Heroes 2 world, like have Osric Temper as a Knight, Albert Newton the Wizard or Loretta Fleise as a Sorceress, that would be cool to see those guys backported (indeed it was ultra weird that these guys simply appeared out of nowhere despite apparently being big major heroes in the Succession Wars) cheers lol
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 09, 2018 07:26 AM |
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Edited by Orzie at 18:50, 09 Nov 2018.
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Morglin said:
Are abandoned units from old beta are free to use? For example for porting them to Project Ironfist? I mean those which display fine on H2 palette.
Maybe their not good enough for H3TSW, but I think it would be shame to just waste them. I played H2 so many times and I want something different, for example more unit upgrades in towns. If most of the graphics are actually done, I think that it could be a good idea for mod.
Depends on the units. Indeed, we have a thread regarding content usage permissions on the forum. It's outdated, but it expresses the general attitude of the team towards using H3SW content. link
Witch creatures from 2013 beta, such as the Beholder, are courtesy of Kivo and were made solely by him. Probably you should ask him, or I can do it for you.
verriker said:
for sure I would not add the Angels for lore reasons (I do not believe they had popped their heads above the parapet until the Night of Shooting Stars, which was after Heroes 2), although it is well worth bearing in mind the Monks of Might and Magic 6, proving that Enroth has the good old generic religion like many more settings lol
It is interesting to note that those monks were used as cult members (Order of the Fist), which tried to incorporate in the Cult of Baa. So, their visage was pretty much inspired by "standard" monks, but they were just another kind of cultists. Still, one cannot unify the concepts of H2 and MM6, because those are different games with different designers.
The exterior of Monks was also used for some temple healers in MM6 which actually confused me because they are enemies. But, the reason for that is simple: content was reused numerous times in that game.
One of the major reasons why we don't have Monks is also simple and laconic: we have Druids.
verriker said:
hey I meant to ask, did you guys think of adding the NPCs from MM6 as heroes to the Heroes 2 world, like have Osric Temper as a Knight, Albert Newton the Wizard or Loretta Fleise as a Sorceress, that would be cool to see those guys backported (indeed it was ultra weird that these guys simply appeared out of nowhere despite apparently being big major heroes in the Succession Wars) cheers lol
Some plans regarding Enrothian officials and other NPCs from MM6 are indeed present for the new campaigns, which are to appear along with v2.0 and Heretic faction. Osric Temper, for example, will be responsible for final elimination of Kreegans from Enroth after the destruction of the Hive by a fantastic four of adventurers. I am unsure if he appears in the shape of a playable hero, though.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted November 09, 2018 06:28 PM |
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Orzie said:
It is interesting to note that those monks were used as cult members (Order of the Fist), which tried to incorporate in the Cult of Baa. So, their visage was pretty much inspired by "standard" monks, but they were just another kind of cultists.
The exterior of Monks was also used for some temple healers in MM6 which actually confused me because they are enemies. But, the reason for that is simple: content was reused numerous times in that game.
very interesting didn't think about this, albeit wasn't there various sects of nasty Monks (e.g. Order of the Fist were not the same as the Temple of the Sun guys who stole from Free Haven, or the Monks at the arena),
I think the Monk NPC was used for corrupt/nasty Monks and the guys in the temples were the sane Monks doing their jobs for the Regent, just like how the Silver Helms were a bunch of Heroes 2-style Swordsmen who were corrupt lol
also a bit of religiosity in Heroes 2 with the Holy Word and Holy Shout, although certainly Heroes 3 dials that up hehe
Orzie said:
Still, one cannot unify the concepts of H2 and MM6, because those are different games with different designers.
One of the major reasons why we don't have Monks is also simple and laconic: we have Druids.
an aspect I love about this project is how you guys really do your best to try and figure out the original vision of Heroes 2 and stick to it when creating new content, it really increases the authenticity beyond a more slapdash design (also agree with that about the Druids, not too visually interesting to have both) lol
Orzie said:
Some plans regarding Enrothian officials and other NPCs from MM6 are indeed present for the new campaigns, which are to appear along with v2.0 and Heretic faction. Osric Temper, for example, will be responsible for final elimination of Kreegans from Enroth after the destruction of the Hive by a fantastic four of adventurers. I am unsure if he appears in the shape of a playable hero, though.
oh that's really interesting, so you are doing whole new campaign stories with these characters even after the Mandate of Heaven ends? I had always thought it would be magnificent to recreate the Night of Shooting Stars, Roland's expedition and all of that in an actual game, especially because there is the perfect intro movie for it here lol
cheers for the answers and info!
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 09, 2018 06:48 PM |
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Quote:
oh that's really interesting, so you are doing whole new campaign stories with these characters even after the Mandate of Heaven ends? I had always thought it would be magnificent to recreate the Night of Shooting Stars, Roland's expedition and all of that in an actual game, especially because there is the perfect intro movie for it here lol
This is precisely what planned for the campaigns at this point. Yet, the developments of the plot didn't go farther than The Mandate of Heaven and sideline stories about certain characters by the current moment. It's still a long way to go before campaigns appear.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted November 09, 2018 08:50 PM |
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Orzie, is there a list of creatures and their abilities/stats to have a look? Just curious about those new units and some of the old. Like the Ghost. ^_^ Or is it still something to reveal cautiously?
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 10, 2018 08:33 AM |
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Edited by Orzie at 08:33, 10 Nov 2018.
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Only this one, without upgrades, neutrals or any text information. It is impossible to provide numbers because they change constantly during the closed test. Some of the graphics are outdated to this day.
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robizeratul
Known Hero
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posted November 10, 2018 09:05 PM |
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I think the greatest compliment we can give Ragoon , you and the other artists working on this is the fact that a newcommer can't tell the difference between the fan creations and the original stuff.
A friend of mine couldn't !
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted November 10, 2018 09:18 PM |
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Gandalf196
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted November 10, 2018 09:27 PM |
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Macron1 said:
Broccoli is in swamp?
Taxodium distichum:
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shev441
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 23, 2018 06:18 PM |
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Any new information? Is premiere still planned in 2018?
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 24, 2018 07:35 AM |
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This thread is pages long: 
