|
|
lujo
Hired Hero
|
posted February 01, 2017 08:45 PM |
|
Edited by lujo at 20:52, 01 Feb 2017.
|
Well, there's a proper discussion going so that's something. If years of discussions yielded that list then those discussions were lead by very strange people becuase most of it is wrong. I'm not even zealous this is obvious stuff to anyone with proper education and a brain. It's also been said a lot, but it just keeps getting shut down by "that's just your opinion", it's not, people have been saying plain facts and been shut down for whatever reasons.
Conservativisim you're talking aobut goes out the window the moment you introduce a new troop in the middle of a roster. Even if that troop does nothing it creates an obstacle that wasn't there before. Most of the stuff I wrote is quite conservative and most of it was done by folks who made H3 because it was the exact kind of "can't do anything else" that you supposedly want, except the kind that makes sense, works, and shows that the poeople who did it actually understood what they were fiddling with. That roster says that whoever came up with it didn't evn know what they're supposed to be conserving.
What I'm saying about the Medusa is the same thing the people who made H3 (and the people who made H2) can tell you about the Medusa. Flavor wise she fits with the Warlock, and if you make her a shooter (like they did) you have an on-flavor human-animal hybrid shooter in place of an off-flavor silly floating eyeball thing shooter. It's not JUST because she's greek. I'm also saying that she's mechanically the same thing as the basilisk, which is also why in a game which has them both, they made her a shooter on top of her stone gaze. I do indeed understand the role and mechanics of Medusa, the Basilisk, the Hydra and the Beholder, and basically anyting else on that list.
The insults are there because if someone is misguided enough to make that roster I simply know I'll be bleeding through my ears from the sheer stupidity if I try to reason with them. So insulting them but also giving them the precise instructions is the way to go.
It's also always like that with most modding of any games. People like things, but rarely ever really understand them. Anyway, I really shouldn't be posting anymore, and noone has to agree with me publically or anything. Folks will forget this, and when you eventually change the roster like I hope you will, YOU will be praised as a genious and it won't matter that I insulted you. And if you don't, anyone with a bit of education and half a brain will come to many of the same conlusions I did they just won't bother saying them in public. And you don't even have to do any of it, plenty of people will still praise you simply for the pretty pictures you won't miss out on that either way.
|
|
orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 08:53 PM |
|
|
The only thing you will get after insulting someone here is a negative QP and a subsequent ban, don't worry. There are always people coming for the hype and personal attention, and you already got your fair share of it. Now, on to work. 
____________
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted February 01, 2017 09:03 PM |
|
|
as you undoubtedly already know, i and others think you're doing an awesome job, orzie. probably the most difficult work to do in modding, is fine hand-pixel work(especially of this kind of precision). i say probably, because i haven't done any 3d modding yet, so i wouldn't know. 
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 09:06 PM |
|
|
fred79 said:
i haven't done any 3d modding yet, so i wouldn't know.
Dude, wtf? There is so many tutorials available on the net for free, of course doing a formation like you plan will speed things up but you could already do the basics mate, it's not hard. 3D is NOT hard, it just takes time.
____________
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 09:07 PM |
|
|
lujo said:
Ok I'm sorry, I won't reply anymore
That was a good plan why drop it. 
____________
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 09:20 PM |
|
|
Galaad said:
fred79 said:
i haven't done any 3d modding yet, so i wouldn't know.
Dude, wtf? There is so many tutorials available on the net for free, of course doing a formation like you plan will speed things up but you could already do the basics mate, it's not hard. 3D is NOT hard, it just takes time.
i'm going pro. and i'm jumping in with both feet.
|
|
OxFEA
Promising
Famous Hero
feanor on DF2.ru
|
posted February 01, 2017 09:21 PM |
|
|
orzie said:
I also find it funny how I became a coder. Need to tell OxFEA that he's fired. 
But you owe me all my salaries!! Thirty, no, forty monthes of pure zeroes!! Give all of them to me, or I shall not consider myself dismissed!
|
|
The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2017 09:31 PM |
|
|
My word isn't worth much but I know I'm always keeping this mod in mind and look forward to the next beta version. I invite creative ideas and love heroes 2, so I am more than happy to see any well implemented additions to the game. Creating a new creature, let alone a whole town, is ****ing awesome.
It's mind blowing what kind of slimey little snows you find on the internet lol 
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 01:04 AM |
|
|
the arrogance surpasses even Erwin's IMHO, even though there is a legitimately good point or two buried in that rants I would regretfully be sure it is expressed in the lowest possible way lol
____________
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 01:07 AM |
|
|
verriker said:
the arrogance surpasses even Erwin's IMHO
At least Erwin created something.
____________
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 09:32 AM |
|
|
Very arrogant indeed, accepting a job so he and his family can survive. Wait, we all do that. Those who work, I mean.
|
|
Wind_Falcon
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 09:49 AM |
|
|
I actually agree with many (though not all) of the things he has proposed. The Knight and Necromancer changes aren't even that out of line with what has already been shown by orzie.
I have to say that even if you don't like the guy and his attitude, for the sake of the quality of the mod his suggestions should stand on its own merits and be seriously considered (as if given by a paragon of the community), and shouldn't be dismissed only because the person giving them was rude.
As always, a harsh critic is more beneficial than an ass-licking white knight.
orzie, will your mod be open to user changes after its out, or further modding it would be impossible?
|
|
Macron1
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 10:34 AM |
|
|
verriker said:
the arrogance surpasses even Erwin's IMHO, even though there is a legitimately good point or two buried in that rants I would regretfully be sure it is expressed in the lowest possible way lol
Maybe it's Trump in disguise?
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 11:05 AM |
|
|
Salamandre said:
Very arrogant indeed, accepting a job so he and his family can survive.
What are you even? ... Erwin was not arrogant for being an employee lmao, maybe you don't care of what happened to the series but it's there, you don't know anything about all this.
____________
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 11:10 AM |
|
|
Wind_Falcon said:
I have to say that even if you don't like the guy and his attitude, for the sake of the quality of the mod his suggestions should stand on its own merits and be seriously considered (as if given by a paragon of the community), and shouldn't be dismissed only because the person giving them was rude.
Just make your own mod and stop pestering us.
____________
|
|
majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 01:06 PM |
|
|
I am doing my mod, but I collect *some* suggestions from the audience.
Lujo is rude but he is *not* dumb. *Some* of his ideas is worth rethink, but even as it is Succession Wars would be very great mod. It's the only total conversion for h3era I know, so great work dudes my mod has defs from free sources, the only I did myself was recolor or something, and You done own sprites even as pixel art! Thank you very much SW team! you are achieving something I couldn't. ciao
|
|
orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 01:45 PM |
|
Edited by orzie at 13:56, 02 Feb 2017.
|
Quote:
As always, a harsh critic is more beneficial than an ass-licking white knight.
It's not critic. I don't see any arguments. I see destructive activity and lust for personal attention instead. And again I'm writing in this thread instead of drawing on my free time (which is not as big as it was once).
Personally, I disagree with the approach of many projects (such as yours, dear majaczek), but I don't come there and tell their authors that they are retards. I still disagree with HotA's boomsticks, but I esteem that project and don't hope to change anything in it, I enjoy it as is.
Quote:
Lujo is rude but he is *not* dumb. *Some* of his ideas is worth rethink
His "ideas" (merely, personal preferences being pointed out as the most truth) don't go well with my imagination of what is Heroes 3: The Succession Wars, built in 4 years of discussions on DF2 forum (home to Heroes 3: Horn of the Abyss, if anyone forgot), and how it should be made and played. There are different things which different people would consider "a H2 spirit". Personally, I care about an organically looking game rather than satisfying everyone. Arranging the creatures as suggested would completely ruin the Heroes 2 spirit for me and the vast army of mod followers, and I care about this more.
Hope that sums up everything.
All of what he says was considered for a lot of times in different combinations: Medusa to Warlock, Harpy to Warlock (generally: hybrids to warlock), animal-headed Tribal, etc. None of his suggestions solve the game design problems which appeared with the necessity of adding 20+ new creatures in Heroes 2 style and concept. There are too many hybrids and too less vacancies for the Warlock. There are 2 factions (Witch, Dervish) which are completely unnecessary for the game and in fact they are the legacy of Mister Kalu's team which I try to save without the game crumbling to pieces. All what Heroes 2 would really need is about 10 new creatures not linked to any faction. Since here comes a person who in fact obstructs the concept of the original game, offering to rearrange the classic lineups, our conversation stops here. I am not interested in changing Heroes 2 concept beyond necessary.
There are many more things than pure mythology (for example, Heroes 2 is snowing not a pure mythology, it's a modern fantasy with the influence of pop culture and there is no such criteria as "mythological precision" for the factions, they are built on many other factors as well like the visual appearance) and many details some people just don't pay attention to.
Quote:
orzie, will your mod be open to user changes after its out, or further modding it would be impossible?
You are free to customize assets for yourself since it remains ERA based. But please, if you are going to YouTube with letsplays, make a note in the video description that what you play is not original Heroes 3: The Succession Wars.
I am ready to take responsibility only for things which are done under my guidance, not someone else's fixes built on that person's own sense of beauty and atmosphere.
____________
|
|
Wind_Falcon
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 02:41 PM |
|
|
If people here don't see any value in a discussion/criticism/suggestion/point/opinion or whatever else they have been labeled to dismiss them, they don't see any value in it. They just disagree and nothing else can be done. And its fine.
What I don't get, considering people claim they don't care for X post or Y person, is why anything that's not praise causes so much butthurt among people here.
Its the Internet and a forum, many things have been said and will continue to be said, in all kinds of ways (and not only on here).
These emotional reactions and bickering just devolve the topic into nastyness, and people that claim to not care should just ignore it, even if it was initiated by rudeness like in this case, and focus on keeping the thread constructive.
Reading pages of accusations who is the biggest ungrateful snow/idiot/whiner/whatever and what they should do/be done to them is just wasting everyone's time.
And I'm trying to be genuinely non-confrontational expressing this, not trying to stir more snow up, and apologize if it comes across otherwise.
|
|
Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 03:33 PM |
|
|
orzie said:
Quote:
None of his suggestions solve the game design problems which appeared with the necessity of adding 20+ new creatures in Heroes 2 style and concept.
Design issues? Bloodsuckers, Giant Spiders(M&M6), Clerics of the Sun and Moon, Female Soldiers, Ghouls, Female Warlocks(M&M7), Feathered Serpents, Raptor-Basilisks, Snakemen, Nagas, Salamanders, Tritons, "Fears", Crystal Walkers/Dragons, Dark Dwarves, Dark Elves, Wisps(M&M8).
Not including concepts you already used, there is a lot of material for inspiration. (I'm not saying just copy-paste, I'm saying inspiration).
And even without them your design is great so far. Could it be improved? Yes. Is it absolutely necessary to be improved? No.
Anyway he evidenced a couple of balance issues (Lich for Necropolis and Crossbowman for Haven). Not necessary to fix them but it would be interesting.
orzie said:
Quote:
There are 2 factions (Witch, Dervish) which are completely unnecessary for the game and in fact they are the legacy of Mister Kalu's team which I try to save without the game crumbling to pieces.
No, they are not. I like them, they bring the M&M6 feeling back to Heroes. Different people might have different feelings, don't regret what you did just because someone decided to write hysterically. It is a really beautiful work the one you have there.
|
|
orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 02, 2017 04:04 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Anyway he evidenced a couple of balance issues (Lich for Necropolis and Crossbowman for Haven). Not necessary to fix them but it would be interesting.
It was intentional to have Lich on the same level as the Mage, as well as to have Crossbowman weaker than the Swordsman.
____________
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
