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| Thread: Is homm VI a decent game finally? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 16, 2013 08:31 AM |
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Too much apparently: so far, all the Dungeon unit abilities that were revealed are little more than copies of the earlier ones, except for the Stalker-ish core's Invisibility, which was taken out of H5. 
Oh, and of course all abilities are bugged as Sheogh anyway.
I can't agree with that claim. Admittedly, Faceless are Glories, although they feel somewhat better with their Puppetmaster ability - but the others?
I've been playing Dungeon for a few months now, and in my opinion it's the best faction of the game. You can also see the strengths and weaknesses of the game with them (for example, "Magic Immunity" is an ability that does NOT fit into the game mechanics).
I also disagree with Ubisoft should put more money into the game - on the contrary. In my opinion, you need a tight budget for a game like heroes, so you will be FORCED to concentrate on the really important things. HoMM 6's budget was TOO HIGH, after the relative success of HoMM 5, not too low. That made them try to "reach for the stars" (although some of those stars ended up black holes, pun intended, thanks). In my eyes, HoMM 6 is an example for a wasteful effort.
Still, HoMM 6 isn't a bad game. The problem is, the more games there are from a franchise, the more difficult it becomes to top the list, not that HoMM 6 ever had a fair chance to do that, mind you, but the game is still playable and will gain a lot under version 2.1 (there will indeed be a massive fixing patch, taking care of over 200 isues).
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 16, 2013 08:49 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 08:49, 16 Apr 2013.
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I also disagree with Ubisoft should put more money into the game - on the contrary. In my opinion, you need a tight budget for a game like heroes, so you will be FORCED to concentrate on the really important things. HoMM 6's budget was TOO HIGH, after the relative success of HoMM 5, not too low. That made them try to "reach for the stars" (although some of those stars ended up black holes, pun intended, thanks). In my eyes, HoMM 6 is an example for a wasteful effort.
So the higher a budget it, the fewer factions and more recolors/recycled creatures you'll get?
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The game is still playable and will gain a lot under version 2.1 (there will indeed be a massive fixing patch, taking care of over 200 isues).
If a game constantly freezes on you, I don't consider it to be playable (taking into consideration the possible length of a game) regardless of whose fault it is.
Here's hoping they won't create 200 more issues  (tho you'd probably know more about that than most others)
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 16, 2013 09:38 AM |
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I have two different Notebooks, a Sony and a Samsung, both now at least 3 years old, both running the game comfortably. Crashes? Not many.
The problem with the budget is, a SEEMINGLY high budget may tempt the production to reach for more than you actually can manage. If the budget has a certain level, everyone is expecting you to deliver a fabulous return, which is exactly the problem.
When the budget reaches a certain amount, part of the budget is used up for crap: a necessity for PRESENTATION (to the press/media and via advertisement). Also, suddenly graphics, "looks", gadgets and whatnot becomes more important because of that - people can't see INTO the game with a trailer or a 5-minute youtube gameplay movie, but they will see how it LOOKS.
Combine that with the temptation to really do something, and you may easily overreach; you may end up trying a lot, but achieving nothing really satisfactory and complete.
That can't happen with a low budget. No one's expecting a lot. There is no necessity for presentations. You can't easily overreach, because you have to build the game in a more "natural" way: you have to make sure, you have a working game when your budget's up, so you start by developing the CORE and expand from there. You would, for example, don't even waste a thought on animated movie sequences for the campaigns - you would probably not even waste a thought on campaigns at all, until you had an alpha with the game core firmly established.
That's how HoMM has been working from the beginning. They made a small, unassuming game, that was a moderate success - and then they followed up fast with the second one, expanding the first which was very successful. And then they expanded the game once more, reaching game heaven - and then they correctly started from scratch again, and albeit HoMM 4 is the best HoMM game in a lot of areas, the main problem is that Heroes on the BF (and what that made necessary) killed the basic, hero-centred SIMPLICITY of the game.
Anyway. Let me be frank about this. In my eyes the Ashan world robs the game something, because it's too static. If you look at the first 4 Homms, they had no problem to simply switch or even kill a world to make massive changes with factions and line-ups, and that's what's somewhat missing in Ashan. I mean, we know what to expect from Inferno, for example, until there is something like a revolution and they finally manage to break out of their prison, but then what?
Fantasy thrives on mysteria, not on rational explanations for the unexplainable, because that forces people to really think about all that stuff. The COOL way are VAGUE HINTS on something behind the scenes, a clue here, something strange there, which will get people's imagination going, until everyone has their own theory about the Hows and Whys and Whats and is satisfied with them. It's way cooler, to have people go like, wow, imagine that there might be actually Dragon GODS, wouldn't that be cool with all the dragons and whatnot, instead of telling them, ok, Ashan was created in a bloody battle between the Dragonmother of Order and the Dragonfather of Chaos which were both siblings, and people go, wtf, what crappy worls is that supposed to be and in what universe?
What Ashan really needs is bloody disaster, like the Goths marching on Rome. Let the Demons destroy half the world, and then become self-satisfied, fat pigs that rule, while the remnants consolidate.
Instead they play with the Void - however, it's clear the Void must not win, except they want to get rid of Ashan completely, and come to think of it, that's not the worst thing that could happen, actually, because they could start with something new then. If there will be a HoMM 7, now that would be an idea: the final Void campaign ending with the player putting the Ashan creation to rest and make room for something new.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 16, 2013 10:05 AM |
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Personally, I find HIV to be more like an hybrid between M&M and HoM&M series than a true Heroes game. Different is the word to describe it, imo.
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Still, HoMM 6 isn't a bad game. The problem is, the more games there are from a franchise, the more difficult it becomes to top the list, not that HoMM 6 ever had a fair chance to do that, mind you, but the game is still playable and will gain a lot under version 2.1 (there will indeed be a massive fixing patch, taking care of over 200 isues).
We've seen big patches create new bugs, I wouldn't be that optimist this time
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted April 16, 2013 11:55 AM |
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The problem with the budget is, a SEEMINGLY high budget may tempt the production to reach for more than you actually can manage.
That can't happen with a low budget. No one's expecting a lot. There is no necessity for presentations. You can't easily overreach, because you have to build the game in a more "natural" way: you have to make sure, you have a working game when your budget's up, so you start by developing the CORE and expand from there.
That's all solved by proper segmenting the total available budget, before the gold fever sets in. I would expect any mature and experienced organisation to be able to handle it - well, provided there aren't too many managers, which usually isn't the case with large, professional organisations, unfortunately.
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... and albeit HoMM 4 is the best HoMM game in a lot of areas, the main problem is that Heroes on the BF (and what that made necessary) killed the basic, hero-centred SIMPLICITY of the game.
While this is true (early game they died easily, late game they became one-man armies), the horrible BF graphics themselves as well as the isometric view of the world map were absolute killers for me as well. They made a few bad design choices with that game, that didn't do it any good. Which is unfortunate, because for what I remember, the stories were pretty good.
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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted April 16, 2013 12:02 PM |
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This is actually how I speak about H. IV
H4 was an OK game and a "too" different Heroes. H6 is just a bad game and a terrible Heroes  NWC had at least a good excuse for releasing a subpar game (bankruptcy, reduced staff, etc...), what's Ubisoft's excuse ?
What's funny (or sad) is that nowadays, I can still launch H4 and have a few hours of fun, but as for H6 ... I just can't. This even had some bad side effects on me ... When I launch any Ubi game and see their logo, it makes me quit instantly ... just like any EA game.
The problem of heroes 6 is his lacking depth, in the beginning i found Heroes 6 pretty OK, but the more i played this game the more i get bored by all aspects of the game:
-Lack of resources
-Lack of strategy (town portal, town conversion, Heroes who never die you kills him then he returns the day after...)
_Lack of replayability due to the skilltree so boring... you play might go for reinforcement, you play magic go for healing and Whatever is the played faction we play in the same way...
-No challenging creeping, you creep all you want with just core creatures (thanks to game mechanics elite and champions are just so common, no epicness)
-No Charm, no magic...
I played the game for 3 months and did not finish the campaign, and i know that i will not replay the game anymore and this is not because of bug ( no bug for me) but because there is no fun to trash whatever you want on the map without loss.
The worst it is that I defended this game a few months ago... Shame on me
Heroes 4 was a good game in many aspects and a bad game in others but at least for me it was fun to play, heroes in the battlefield was so fun.
H5 tote is also a fun game for me.. and it's an Ubi's game
I just hope there was a H7 game with a total rework of the game mechanics, spirit of the game.... But i know it's just a dream, heroe's spirit is die.
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zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 16, 2013 05:24 PM |
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not sure if h7 will ever come ... another studio risking going bankrupt seems unlikely to me.
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DarkDXZ
Known Hero
Haiku sensei
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posted April 16, 2013 05:32 PM |
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At this point they might as well rebrand the franchise to become a real-time strategy.
Which would've kind of made sense, honestly.
Imagine H3, but with RTS mechanics instead.
Sure, wouldn't be the same game anymore, but it would be still fun nonetheless, provided it would be done right.
Which is something we can only pray for these days when it comes to Might&Magic and Ubisoft.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 16, 2013 05:54 PM |
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At this point they might as well rebrand the franchise to become a real-time strategy.
Which would've kind of made sense, honestly.
Imagine H3, but with RTS mechanics instead.
Sure, wouldn't be the same game anymore, but it would be still fun nonetheless, provided it would be done right.
Which is something we can only pray for these days when it comes to Might&Magic and Ubisoft.
I've been thinking on this idea in the last times, and the more I think on it, the more sense it makes.
With a Warcraft type of approach (buildable heroes from 'town', with abilities and levels and so on) it could be done, and it wouldn't have limitations like stacks have in HoM&M games.
However, moving from a turn base game to a real time one is a big step, and for sure they won't dare to do so in the next years.
I hope to see one of them one day, really.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 16, 2013 07:21 PM |
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Heretic 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 16, 2013 07:22 PM |
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I guess DoC fans are considered heretic as well, ain't them?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 16, 2013 07:33 PM |
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Doc gameplay is pretty close to heroes. A card game is cool but going real time in a traditionally turn-based series? I just don't see it.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 16, 2013 07:46 PM |
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F DoC, bring back Arcomage
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 16, 2013 08:01 PM |
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
I don't think is that crazy to try an adaption to real time. yes, there would be some big changes like:
- real time instead of turn based
- heroes in the battlefield, can die (not new really, remenber HIV or even M&M series!)
- Workers recollecting the resources instead of capturing mines?
but, in my opinion, a lot of features could easily be adapted:
- hero leveling, skills and such would remain mostly the same.
- creatures in towns, more flexible control of resources and creatures (in HoM&M you are limited to certain amount of units each week)
And there are a lot of benefits, like secondary heroes becoming useful, no limitation of stacks, more active game, scouting becoming more important...
Maybe I shouldn't say "adapttion of HoM&M" but instead a new game, sharing some features with HoM&M games just like DoC, (Defunct) Raiders, RPG M&M series....I see room for a RTS with this ambientation, yes 
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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted April 16, 2013 08:19 PM |
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I don' really like RTS game, i like to take my time, take a mine and another... build my casle at my pace.
And i think the person who play turn base game don't like especially RTS.
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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted April 16, 2013 08:23 PM |
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- hero leveling, skills and such would remain mostly the same.
Seems boring to see heroes with same build no?
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DarkDXZ
Known Hero
Haiku sensei
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posted April 16, 2013 08:51 PM |
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We should make this happen at some point.
We'd no longer be limited to "static" battlefield anymore, but RTS immediately means faster pace - and sometimes, I lack the skills necessary to keep up with the events on the screen (and off-screen, for that matter).
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted April 16, 2013 10:57 PM |
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Add new RTS-like elements to Heroes?
The question is: what for?
There are zounds of RTS out there. A lot of "hybrid" RTS also.
On the other hand I still see lack of decent turn-based strategies.
I like Heroes for the fact that, no mater who makes them, they're still your good old TBS games.
No thank you!
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 16, 2013 11:36 PM |
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- hero leveling, skills and such would remain mostly the same.
Seems boring to see heroes with same build no?
Maybe I didn't explain myself correctly.
What I was trying to say, heroes in the battlefield in a RTS game could have similar skills & abilities like in a TBS such as HoM&M. Those are spells, skills learned when leveling up like offence, luck, Leadership, tactics, scouting etc...
For example, a fireball would be the same here and there.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 17, 2013 06:24 AM |
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I guess DoC fans are considered heretic as well, ain't them?
DoC is a different game in the same franchise, what you're asking for is a complete change of a game. HoMM is turn based, if it became a RTS it wouldn't be HoMM anymore. Not saying it wouldn't be cool, but it wouldn't be the same game.
Also ... if I wanted to play HoMM RTS, I'd just play Warcraft 3 As much as game developers want to make "new" games, in the end, RTS are just the same games over and over.
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