|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted March 08, 2017 09:45 PM |
|
|
I'm going to play a cover version of an earlier post of mine and say that "song" isn't "song". This is used mainly for VOCALISTS - singers. A song that has a text involves an instrument called VOICE, and that makes the difference mostly. The arrangement of the song is adjusted to suit the singer. When Shirley Bassey sings Something, it becomes a different song. When Joe Cocker sings WALHFMF it becomes a different song than from the Beatles.
However - if there is no voice, then things are different. Obviously.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted March 08, 2017 10:02 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 22:16, 08 Mar 2017.
|
Technically, a song is something that is sung, yes, but it is quite a regular thing to call an instrumental tune a song, too, not when talking about a symphony movement or something similar of course but, say, when talking about a 3 minute James Brown instrumental or Led Zeppelin's Moby Dick etc. But that's just a detail about the dictionary definition beside the point as of now. I don't think much changes according to whether there is human voice in a tune or not. A jazz standard that is played by Ben Webster, Coleman Hawkins or Benny Carter who all play the saxaphone, would be very different each time. Even when they all jam in the SAME track together, under the same arrangement, you can tell which one plays when, not any different than being able to tell apart two singers in a duet. I dont see how human voice creates a structural difference on what we talk about.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 08, 2017 11:13 PM |
|
|
I was answering to Zenofex.
What you are mentioning is nowhere called "COVER-version. It's also beside the point because interpretaions of classical music aren't called "cover versions" either.
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted March 09, 2017 06:44 AM |
|
|
|
@artu, we are obviously using this word differently, let's leave it at that. I really, really don't want to argue about semantics, what is song, what is tune, what is melody and what is JJ's tortured brainchild, it kills the whole idea of the discussion.
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted March 12, 2017 12:40 AM |
|
|
From last week news but guess I should put it here anyway: Stravinsky's Funeral song, composed in 1908 for his master Rimsky-Korsakov. The partition, which has been lost ever since, was found in 2014 by none other than Valery Gergiev in St-Peterburg, somewhere in the conservatory's archives. The first worldwide performance ever since was in December 2016 in St-Peterburg, then two weeks ago in Paris, sadly I was in neither countries at the time. A wonderful piece.
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted March 12, 2017 12:46 AM |
|
|
|
I got the complete Prokofiev symphonies conducted by Valery Gergiev just last week but couldn't focus on really listening yet.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted March 12, 2017 08:40 AM |
|
|
I would suggest to try first his piano concertos (1st and 3rd), they are in symphonia style but easier to hear because of piano soloist, then the 2nd violin concerto, then some of the sonatas (piano 3rd, 6th and 9th, violin both) and then Romeo and Juliet followed by symphonies; going directly for symphonies/operas (supposing you didn't listen much to the instrumental before, maybe you did) is always hard and baffling, even for accustomed fans.
Lang Lang/Berliner Philharmonic in the piano third is fantastic and a sure way to get a direct hit to Prokofiev. Also an interesting short video on that particular recording where sound is much better.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted March 12, 2017 11:42 AM |
|
|
Thanks, I will keep this route in mind. I have no problem with instrumental music, I am more than familiar to it both from jazz and classical. However, not always but most of the time, classical from the 20th Century, composers after the time of Rachmaninoff feel distant to me. They lose me (or it would be more accurate to say, I lose them.  ). Prokofiev is not one of the exceptions, I can't instantly find myself captured in his music like I do with Chopin or Mozart etc.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted March 12, 2017 09:48 PM |
|
|
|
Thats why you have to start with things you can only enjoy, so you don't get that apprehension at first -the repertory is very vast. Start with Dance of the knights,, then first sonata (almost Rachmaninof), then maybe final from 7th (one of the most fantastic hits), piano toccata -the demonic side, things like that. They contain all the ingredients he uses and extends everywhere else. Have fun.
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted March 16, 2017 01:03 AM |
|
|
So Artu, do you play any musical instrument or what? Because with your culture you could evolve fast.
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted March 16, 2017 01:21 AM |
|
|
I think I'm a little old for that. I had piano lessons as a kid, I could play Fur Elise or Hungarian Dance no. 5 by Brahms but I didn't take it seriously, so over the years, they just faded away, first the left hand moves, then completely. During my twenties I also played some blues harp, self-thought, I was not an exceptional player or anything but I could accompany 12 bar blues on stage with actual bands, that is almost completely gone too, now. If you don't practice it just vanishes.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted March 16, 2017 01:23 AM |
|
|
True that regular practice is vital but as long as your brain works you can study, classical music is a lot about how you make your instrument sound but jazz is so clear and logical you could easily learn some standards (imo), and the beauty of it is anyone can play it at his level.
____________
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted March 16, 2017 01:24 AM |
|
|
artu said:
I could accompany 12 bar blues on stage with actual bands, that is almost completely gone too, now.
What, how can it be gone now? Tell me the form, now.
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted March 16, 2017 02:26 AM |
|
|
|
Well, if it was some standard blues such as Rambling on My Mind or Sweet Home Chicago, you know... the standard blues template, I could play along the blues harp by ear, I can't describe that in text. But for instance, if I had a harmonica in G, I could only play along songs in that tone, where as a more advanced player could use a G harmonica to accompany a few more tones. A blues harp is different than a standard harmonica, there are only ten holes and you can't use any blues harp to any key, and when it matches, the structure is quite easy to follow by instinct anyway. But if you don't practice, you lose dexterity of breath, it's not like forgetting to play the piano but rather like going back to a really advanced level of a platform game after not playing so many years, you know which buttons to press, there are just a few anyway but you can't press quick enough anymore.
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted March 16, 2017 08:47 AM |
|
Edited by Galaad at 14:03, 16 Mar 2017.
|
Well the basic blues form is:
I | % | % | %
IV | % | I | %
V | % | I | %
(% means repetition of what was before)
So if you're playing in G, I is G, IV is C and V is D. You can play all chords dominant (7) but a lot of people (I mean the idols on discs) like to play normal Major6 and make the dominant sound just before change (for instance in fourth bar, I becomes I7 before going to IV).
A very common variation is to have V, IV, I, V for the last four bars (D, C, G, D in the key of G). Then later on you get the bebop blues with some II(m)-V(7) added here and there and the turn around (I-VI-II-V or III-VI-II-V) in last two bars.
On piano, the basics of playing is to have tonic in left hand with the thirds along sixths or sevenths while having the scales go up and down for practice on right hand (up until the 7th, not octave!).
It's nice to play by ear but you really know it once you fully get it, then the ear becomes a bonus and real asset instead of life saver, but most importantly, you're never too old to play. 
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted May 08, 2017 09:35 PM |
|
|
Lol. I e-mailed a blues guitarist from the States, since there was no info about his middle name available in Google, writing:
Hello, I just bought your Dusty Porch album from iTunes store, after hearing one of the songs on the radio, (a really good album, btw), what I wanted to know is, do you have some middle name that I can use in the "album artist" info box. Because when I fill in plain John Williams, iTunes puts your album right in the middle of composer John Williams' albums and I don't want that. I can simply put a dot after your name but then it looks bad and I'm a little compulsive about such details. Thanks in advance for the reply.
He replied "Yeah, there's too many of us." Said I can use John D. Williams and asked for my address to send his latest CD as a gift! I bet classical guitarist John Christopher Williams wouldn't have sent me a free album.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted May 10, 2017 05:04 PM |
|
|
In this context, what does rhetorical mean? Sal?
"These are not, with certain exceptions, probing performances. Some of Beethoven’s profoundest statements are reduced to showpieces. The exceptions, such as the Pathétique Sonata, are highly rhetorical anyway and thus suit Pienaar’s treatment."
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted May 10, 2017 08:05 PM |
|
|
|
No idea, would need more context about "these". Pienaar googling returned two famous rugby players so didn't help me much
|
|
Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
|
|
posted May 10, 2017 08:31 PM |
|
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted May 11, 2017 03:32 AM |
|
Edited by artu at 05:10, 11 May 2017.
|
Salamandre said:
No idea, would need more context about "these". Pienaar googling returned two famous rugby players so didn't help me much
Here's the full article and here's the third movement from his Pathetique, if it helps: Download
I have this thing about the Beethoven sonatas, so I've been collecting and downloading various interpretations for some time now. This one sounded rather different, not exactly in a great way but not in a terrible way either. So I got curious about the word of critics.
Btw, who would you suggest I add to this "project" of mine, I already have:
Alfred Brendel: Full set
Andras Schiff: Full set
Annie Fischer: Full set
Artur Rubenstein: 18, 23 (1940's), 8,14,18,21,21,26
Artur Schnabel: Full set
Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli: 3
Claudio Arrau: Full set
Danieal Barenboim: Full set (EMI), Full Set (DG)
Daniel-Ben Pienaar: Full set
Emil Gilels: 8,14,23
Fazil Say: 32, 14
Freddy Kempf: 8, 14, 23
Friedrich Gulda: Full set
Glenn Gould: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,23,30,31,32
Maurizio Pollini: Full set
Paul Badura-Skoda: Full set
Paul Lewis: Full set
Remi Geniet: 2,9,14,31
Richard Goode: Full set
Stephen Kovacevich: Full set
Svaitoslav Richter: 3,4,9,11,12,18,19,20,22,23,27,28,30,31,32
Vladimir Ashkenazy: Full set
Vladimir Horowitz: 14 (1946), 8,14,21,23,28
Walter Gieseking: 8,9,10,13,14
Wilhelm Kempff: Full set (1950's), Full set (1960's)
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
