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| Thread: Why Heroes IV is the best game in the series |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · NEXT» |
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leonhart
Hired Hero
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posted November 22, 2013 01:33 AM |
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Why Heroes IV is the best game in the series
I seriously believe that H4 is by far the best game in the series despite the harsh criticism from most of the players. (I hope I didn't have to state that this in fact is my opinion.)
I've played a lot of rest of the Heroes games and at times I'd think for a while that H3, H5 or even H6 would've been the best, but none of these games have had very long lasting impressions on me. I always find myself coming back to H4. I've played it for almost 10 years and it still feels fresh and keeps getting better. The 'Equilbris' mod fixed most of the crippling balancing issues so kudos for the people behind it.
Here's some reasons why I find H4 to be the best;
1. It has some of the best music in the series, the OST is even better than in H3. 'Searching For a Dream' is quite possibly my favorite song in the entire series. All the town themes are immortal classics aside from maybe Academy and Stronghold which were better in H3.
2. It has the best atmosphere due to the OST and the amazing visuals and adventure map design. I'd even say it has the best writing. I love the vanilla campaigns and all the tidbits in item/spell/hero etc. descriptions. The adventure map hasn't lost it's magic and I feel the game has soul in it. H3 would be the second in this department, but in my opinion it lacks variation and it feels cold and breathless. H5 is okay, but the all-around style doesn't suit my taste. H6 is no doubt the best looking game, but graphics alone don't make a game. For me it's style without substance and it doesn't have the same 'magic' as the earlier games.
3. Hands down the best skill- and magic system followed by H5. I don't find any of the skills or schools of magic too strong or useless. I think they have a really good balance. Also the random factor is still there unlike in H6. For me that's one aspect that defined Heroes. Most of the games have the cookie cutter builds for skill- and talent systems.
4. I find the unit system the best, again followed by H5 (7 levels and alternative upgrades). Your army doesn't always end up the same even though some of the choices are better 95% of the time like monks over crusaders or angels over champions. Another thing I like about the system is that it's effective to use units associated with other factions. I don't remember having units of other factions in H6 due to the town conversion which was a bullsnow feature. Also even the lv.1 units are viable in the end-game because there's only 4 levels in total so the gap between the strength wasn't as big.
You could even make armies with units alone. This was a great way to send several scouts to gather resources at the beginning. I also loved the unit abilities. H3 didn't have many interesting units due to the lack of abilities.
5. What is there not to love about the heroes who join in the battleground? This was the best goddamn feature in the whole game. The heroes are also extremely well balanced, at least till end-game and it's not like all the heroes were suited for combat anyway. I don't think I need to elaborate this any further since if you like the system you know what I'm talking about.
6. The gameplay in general. I couldn't pretend when I say that skills, spells, unit abilities and artifacts were all my favorite in any given Heroes game. And it feels like I have the most control over them too. The game flows so naturally and I always know what I'm doing at the moment. The gameplay in H3 was too unpredictable for me and I never learned how that game should have been played.
7. The new features in general. Caravans, heroes in combat, the new display of adventure map and battles, simultaneous retaliations and the new skill system. (Best map editor too.)
I don't have anything else to add at the moment except that I acknowledge some of the more negative aspects of the game like the horrendous adventure map AI, but then again aren't these games and games in general supposed to be played against human opponents? Though the loading times keeps getting longer as the game goes on in network matches.
Another weakness of H4 would be the lackluster expansions, but at least we got the opening cinematic of Winds of War.
Okay so I'd like to know am I biased, clinically retarded, completely delusional or something.
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Hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted November 22, 2013 08:18 PM |
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Edited by Hippox89 at 20:19, 22 Nov 2013.
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Well, it's about tastes, really. Nothing wrong with you favoring H4 over other Heroes games.
The music is really nice, but so is H2, H3. I just mix the music when playing; best of both worlds.
I think the graphics in H4 is really quite good. Much better than it'd would have been in ugly 3D at the time.
H4 is a good game in itself, I think, though I mostly prefer H3 design over H4. Again, about tastes.
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rtx
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 22, 2013 09:43 PM |
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I personally don't like H4 magic system, but just because you need to spend about 2 hours to learn level 5 spells of 2 schools. However that depends on map and skill [I'm casual slow-paced strategy gamer-lamer]. I would prefer Wisdom skill [like h3] that all magic guys would start with and magis schools as they are.
Another thing is too few skill slots, I would really like a mod with 2 more of them.
However Heroes IV is still great, I love its music, gameplay, heroes [but I hate the fact that they are random], combat, terrain height system & many more things.
But its most important flaw is that game is almost totally abandoned by modders - there isn't even widescreen support, with which Heroes IV would propably become my favourite one when it comes to gameplay. But nothing would replace good ol' sentimental Heroes II. 
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Ronbrgundy
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 22, 2013 10:39 PM |
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Introduction:
I too believe that Heroes IV has the potential to be the best in the series on some levels. Lets be honest though this is all opinion. You can't really pick just one game. People will choose H2 and H3 for nostalgia and other reasons, and thats not necessarily bad. Just because someone takes an existing game and updates the graphics and options, the updated game is not necessarily inherently "better".
Here is my rambling opinion below - again this is all opinions we are throwing around and this one happens to be my opinion. To know where we are going we have to look at where we have been. There may be others but these are the most important events precluding Heroes IV that are relevant to its development.
12th Century - King Arthur stories are compiled or created based on the work of earlier authors by Geoffrey of Monmouth's book History of the Kings of Great Britain
Other stories are worthy of mention here but imo this was one of the most important ever created / popularized. We could go on endlessly about every character in the fantasy game series from a Minotaur (Greek Mythology) to a Djinn (Arabian Mythology).
1937 - J.R.R. Tolkien publishes The Hobbit. "Tolkien recollects that he began work on The Hobbit one day early in the 1930s, when he was marking School Certificate papers. He found a blank page. Suddenly inspired, he wrote the words, "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit." " - ref Wikipedia
IMO THIS ONE ACT ABOVE CHANGED THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.
1970 - Play by mail game Nuclear Destruction invented by Rick Loomis.
1974 - Dungeons and Dragons, created by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson is published.
1975 - Play by mail game Tunnels and Trolls by Flying Buffalo created.
1979 - Citadel Miniatures comes about more commonly known as Games Workshop today.
1985 - MUDs (Multi User Domains) begin to be accessible to normal people on personal computers, not just college undergratuate coding supernerds.
EVERY MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER GAME YOU HAVE EVER PLAYED IS BASICALLY JUST A MUD WITH A CRAPLOAD MORE CODING AND GRAPHICS ADDED. THESE MUD GAMES COINED THE SYSTEM THAT SUCKS PEOPLE INTO THE GAMES AND GETS THEM ADDICTED AND PAYING MONEY, NAMELY SOCIAL INTERACTION SUCH AS CLANS, POWERING UP CHARACTERS WITH SEVERAL HOURS OF PLAY INVOLVED, RANDOM REWARDS BASED ON CONQUERING DUNGEONS AND MINIONS. THESE 3 THINGS ARE KEY TO SUCKING IN A HUGE PLAYER BASE.
1989 - Hero Quest board game is released created by Stephen Baker of UK division of Milton Bradley.
1990 - Final Fantasy is released for Nintendo.
1993 - Arena is released by Bethesda and would spawn many Elder Scrolls sequels, my favorite of which is Oblivion thus far.
1993 - Magic The Gathering is published.
1994 - Master of Magic is created by SimTex and published for Microprose for MS-DOS system.
THIS IS THE GREATEST FANTASY STRATEGY TURN BASED GAME EVER CREATED.
(1990's - 2000's) An explosion of fantasy games are released that we could talk endlessly about, from Ultima Online to Warcraft to Neverwinter Nights.
Back to Heroes IV:
Im going off my shoddy memory and personal feelings here, so if I misstep don't nail me to the wall. I played Heroes 2 the most, but have also played Heroes 1 and 3. I have not played 5 or 6 but have to wonder if I would want to. The graphics are so far away from the beautiful simple sprites I so enjoyed in the early 90's. I suspect I would enjoy these anyway even with their over-the-top corny World of Warcraft looking graphics. I suppose this is what gamers want these days. Hell I did enjoy Oblivion (Elder Scrolls) immensely and their graphics were incredible. Here is why I like Heroes IV gameplay the best so far.
- Heroes join the fight instead of just being a general
- Items system keeps getting more and more involved i.e. how some of the items stack with skills, you've got robes that can make you ignore the first 3 hits of the game, you've got items that make you immune to magic, swords that drain life or give you 2 extra attacks, armor and rings that regenerate hit points, etc.
- Skill system keeps getting more and more involved i.e. I've got a barbarian in my current game with 4 types of magic on top of his powerful might skills. Necromancers make skeletons, then ghosts, then vampires. What a treat. Summoners can make elementals. Order magic Hypnotize. Everyone on your team can get Grandmaster Archery and put up a wall of arrows, then throw on top of that some of them are exploding flame arrows, silk binding arrows, stunning arrows, poisoning arrows etc.
- Each Castle brings something unique and interesting to the table with interesting creatures and their special powers. Angels can resurrect, Vampires make more of themselves, Elves shoot twice and Faerie dragons cast lightning or fireball, Black Dragons are just awesome as always and immune to magic unless your opponent has ring of negation which is a neat item in that regard.
- QUESTS! Quests are excellent tools for private map developers to give special awards and make the game exciting.
- Super Items / Super Monsters: There are some items like Horned Bow and monsters such as the Gargantuan that I could play 5 various maps and only see on 1 of the 5 maps. This is how you keep gamers excited by having things be rare like this. This is how you keep that Oh S factor for a game that involves hours and hours of play.
And this was the greatest improvement over previous games:
- DUNGEONS RESPAWN WITH ANOTHER SET OF RANDOM TREASURE ITEMS.
(As a side note, this is all you need to create a game that people will pay subscription fees to play in a massively multiplayer online environment. The reason for this is the same reason you see retirees pulling the rod on a slot machine with their retirement check over and over. The human brain responds with pleasure sensation when you are awarded something seemingly at random. Charming graphics and musical tones reinforce the sensation. Another thing that reinforces the sensation is if some of the things you are awarded at random are mediocre and some are very good. Throw on top of this into the mix that characters power up and get more powerful and stack abilities and items, this is what makes people get "addicted" if you will)
I really don't care that that was probably lifted from countless other games that do the same thing, it was a massive improvement.
General other things I like about Heroes IV:
I love the little music when you beat a dungeon.
I like how scouting tells you the exact number of enemies in a dungeon.
There is more than one way to defeat a very powerful enemy.
Complaints:
After you play the game a while you fall into very stereotypical patterns of gameplay and how to win. There is definitely some imbalance that some people have fixed with a game mod.
There are certain things H2 and H3 offer that H4 cannot live up to that are more sentimental and nostalgic than anything else. There is no replacement for 10k skeletons swinging their scimitar through a group of bone dragons and the sound effect of said scimitar and the bone dragons death knell. Vampires "blahh!" is another sound effect. Medusa gaze with that "heearrahh" grunt. Spritely graphics. The way the designers could take something very vile and give it a cutesy look with the graphics.
There are a handful of maps that explore this game better than any game designer made map. King Reprecht Attacks is one such map. The thing that sets it apart is numerous quests and numerous packs of 10k+ enemies that you must use every cheap trick in the book to defeat.
What I want to see in the future:
I am playing a map right now called Draconic. The heroes on it have individual super powers. I.e. The Necromancer on it has the ability to generate Bone Dragons if he defeats normal Black or Faerie dragons. Only he has this ability the way it is designed - other Necromancers don't. I want to see more of this type of thing whether it is an award via a Quest or whatever.
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted November 26, 2013 06:53 PM |
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Edited by Aron at 18:54, 26 Nov 2013.
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Frankly I liked where it was going in the sense of the bigger battlefields. There's an other game that reminds me of it but now I can't remember. 1-2, also castles and two levels, might and magic type of thing....
But I just couldn't take the art direction. Graphics aren't a big thing for me but the graphics of homm 4...to bright, to cartoony, to unfinished, no atmosphere! Basically due to the engine that they used everything felt disconnected.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted November 26, 2013 09:50 PM |
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I'll put it like this. Heroes 4 is probably the heroes game I feel in the mood for most of the time. Sadly the mood disappears very shortly after I start it up and it feels very forced to continue. 
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Living time backwards
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TheUnknown
Known Hero
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posted November 30, 2013 02:51 AM |
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rtx said:
I personally don't like H4 magic system, but just because you need to spend about 2 hours to learn level 5 spells of 2 schools. However that depends on map and skill [I'm casual slow-paced strategy gamer-lamer]. I would prefer Wisdom skill [like h3] that all magic guys would start with and magis schools as they are.
Another thing is too few skill slots, I would really like a mod with 2 more of them.
However Heroes IV is still great, I love its music, gameplay, heroes [but I hate the fact that they are random], combat, terrain height system & many more things.
But its most important flaw is that game is almost totally abandoned by modders - there isn't even widescreen support, with which Heroes IV would propably become my favourite one when it comes to gameplay. But nothing would replace good ol' sentimental Heroes II.
I love wisdom in heroes 3 too, but if you enable it as such in heroes 4 where you can have more heores per army the army can easily become overpowered. So the games just have different approach or to say different style. I love heroes 4 even better because you pick how many heroes you bring to a fight. You want to go with one? Ok sure go ahead, you get more experience and sooner access level 5 spells. You want seven heroes? Ok you go for slower access to high level spells but sometimes quantity is very good like with summoners or sorcerers.
Heroes IV is slower paced if you take individual hero development into account and it's a bit more boring because there are less types of skills, but you can get many heroes at once and you in fact develop more types of skills per gameplay (that is the fun part), one goes into nobility (maybe estates), other into scouting (pathfinding is great here), then another into tactics (all is a must), someone maybe goes combat and almost all should go for spell schools. While in heroes 3 you were more limited to certain skills and offensive or defensive play from the start depending on the chosen hero, in heroes 4 after a week you can get a hero that enables you to go into an opposite direction be it combat, tactics, nobility, magic, scouting ... its a lot more versatile and tactics are a lot more different than in h3.
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Bluesky
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 30, 2013 06:57 PM |
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Edited by Bluesky at 19:01, 30 Nov 2013.
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Heroes 4 is a good game with no doubt,but lets not overstate it.There is a reason why it didn't had success like it's predecessors had.
Although it is the first version of heroes I've played,I can't say I really enjoyed it...there seems to be something missing here.
The graphics are almost simplistic,game play needs a lot of work and the combat music has very little variety in it : I can remember at H3 four or five types of compositions when engaging a battle,and this is an older game.
Sure the adventure music is great,and some graphic designs are very appealing,but that would be it.Besides these advantages,it was also a step backwards.(Of course there exceptions to the rules : I can remember 5 or 6 maps that I really enjoyed)
Also no random map generator was ever made.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 30, 2013 07:04 PM |
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I am glad it is your favourite. Do you ever feel that because of resourses you find you are drawn to build the unit one you strategically didn't want? Like I found it so hard to build Elves I almost always caved in and just built the Tigers :SS But I am not sure if I was just weak minded xD
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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ShadowHero
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 05, 2013 04:22 AM |
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H4 is also best game from series for me, though I must say that I wont play it anymore.
Can't really compare all aspects with successors, because I tried only H5 and I spent only 5minutes in game till I uninstalled it - horrible graphic, horrible battlefield, chaotic adventure map/city and movement etc. But when compared with H3 I can say that I especially like:
- heroes are part of the army and acts on their own (far better than older concept, though it needs some balancing though - I usually end up with a army created by six heroes which seemed quite a powerfull but maybe its because of a bad map design that I was able to level up all six heroes to such high level at all)
- magic system is far better than in H3, imo wisdom is total stupidity and the H3 mass spells are the most unbalancing aspect of the game, H4 solved all this very smartly, also the fire magic is useless in H3 except of the single spell armagedon which however needs very high endy army and hero to be useable
- units magic and units combat choices, so creatures can either attack and return or not return, shoot or attack melee at the same time and choose which spell they want to cast which is so great (H3 fan expansion made few of this available but it still doesn't work in multiplayer which is shame)
etc. etc. The graphic is pretty but still not far from preceddesors so its not that hard to get used to it. I think that H4,5,6 should all have a possibility to exchange graphic into low-texture/detail or even 2D/pseudo2D as thats what suits this game the best anyway. I mean the graphic is nice in single player but needless and sometimes obstructing the gameplay especially in multiplayer.
But then yes when I want to play Homam I play H3 because it has better multiplayer support, there is a WoG fan expansions, various mods a player can try and random map generator. Shame that WoG is atm just bunch of features instead of a clone of best features from H3 and H4 which is how it was featured. Thoug now when I learned about equilibrium, I guess I gave it a chance!
BTW (and if this is offtopic send me PM) does any of the homam episode allows to view battles of my allies in multiplayer when Im not on turn?
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Da_venom
Hired Hero
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posted December 09, 2013 05:24 PM |
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lol fire magic bad on h3? ROFL just check beserk >
but anyway my opinion is that both H1-4 are great to play rest that came after was unbalanced and sucky graphics h5 had HORRIFIC AI loading times online(which they never fixed)
So we mainly got h3 lovers or h4 lovers i for one like both
h3 is more simple on hero advancement and alot more easy to predict Ai movement in battles. But simplicity is what you need in online gameplay to get people hooked  at high skill that will all change ofcourse you also need to separate better players from the noobs
and this is what the switch from h3 to h4 pissed people off they were all thinking it would be the same style and easy to learn. Since after a couple years later and they play it they find it suitable (sad irony) xD
h4 tried something new with putting heroes on battlefield and giving them SECONDARY classes with abilities. It also got a bit more complicated with all skills involved and the battle system also was a bit more fiendish but still likeable
also a thing what h4 missed was and that prolly killed it for alot of people is a RANDOM MAP GENERATOR! i know the h3 one wasn't perfect but atleast you had one..
h3 is also better suited for online play imho
h4 is a bit more tricky and a little bit unbalanced faction wise
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted December 09, 2013 07:07 PM |
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Da_venom said:
and this is what the switch from h3 to h4 pissed people off they were all thinking it would be the same style and easy to learn. Since after a couple years later and they play it they find it suitable (sad irony) xD
I must be a special case then. Coz I enjoyed H4 a lot when I first played it (after a lot of years with H2 and H3 ), for like 2 years I played H4. Then I just couldn't play it again, I go to 5-20 turns and I get VERY bored
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Bluesky
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 09, 2013 09:52 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
I must be a special case then. Coz I enjoyed H4 a lot when I first played it (after a lot of years with H2 and H3 ), for like 2 years I played H4. Then I just couldn't play it again, I go to 5-20 turns and I get VERY bored
Yes,the game play is very predictable,and the skill system with town upgrades are drastically simplified.
Also,the lack of random map generator didn't help either...because after you play the maps for about 5 or 6 times you get bored.And it costs a lot of time/money to make/or to pay someone to create new maps.
What keeps me in playing Heroes 4 is the amazing adventure music and the new graphics (although I'm not completely satisfied here).Also a few changes in this reincarnation are pretty cool (like heroes in combat and altars of magic).
Overall,it's a good game with a few flaws.Perhaps Ubisoft should be pressured to make some major improvements...and if it costs to do so,then so be it.
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sammydakid
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 10, 2013 05:40 AM |
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Heroes 4 is my favorite as well. I do like heroes 3 with wog, I do like heroes 5 and 6, I even like heroes 2 for the retro feel, but none of them compare to heroes 4. There's simply just something about it. The charming music, the picturesque graphics, the unique gameplay, I can lose myself in a game of heroes 4 unlike any other in the series. And with the balance issues addressed in equilibris, it's perfect.
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Duzeom
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 19, 2014 07:30 PM |
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Heores 4 is the best for three reasons:
1. A very nice connection of strategic game with rpg game. It could be improved in the next HOMM games, but unfortunetaly this idea isn't picked up again.
2. Great music.
3. Very intuitive and giving a lot of freedom editor.
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DarkDXZ
Known Hero
Haiku sensei
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posted January 21, 2014 02:09 PM |
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Glad to see people that too enjoy H4 over H3.
It's not without its flaws, I'll sure give you that, but they're not big enough to spoil the great gameplay.
I just wish that there was some sort of HD version, because the resolutions are really bad. And sometimes the grid in the battle was kind of unintuitive.
Other than that, best game in the series.
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"If I can't determine whether people are trolling or not within a moment's notice I will just start flailing with this chainaxe without any particular aim besides general slaughter." - Adrius
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castlevania
Hired Hero
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posted February 23, 2014 12:27 PM |
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I also think that Heroes IV is a great game. I love all Heroes games from II to VI. I do not have an opinion to Heroes I because I didn't play it and I do not think I will 
The best things in Heroes IV for me are:
1. Amazing graphics - I prefer them to Heroes III ... really!!! Heroes 3 has its charm but I just prefer H4!
2. I like the idea of chosing your creatures. If you get Vampires you can't build Venom Spawns and upgrade to each creature would've been nice but hey it is still great
3. The caravans are very nice edition to the game!!! Now the dwellings outside the town are actually usefull!!!
4. The map editor is just amazing!
5. The main hero is your one man army! That really explains the title of the game HEROES of might and magic!
6. I love the town screen terrain change depending on the type of land you are on. For example if you are Death in frozen land the town is on snow terrain. Why didn't UBI take this!!!
7.. I really enjoy the campaigns I am still only on the 3rd map of Might but I like the stories Done Life and I like it.
Room for improvement! I know there is no hope for some kind of succession or projects to continiue the development of Heroes IV just like Heroes III Horn of the Abyss or WoG but ... hey hope dies last
1. Upgrades for the chosen creatures.
2. The hero avatar to be both male and female for each class. Also if the hero is a genie it's avatar should also be genie etc.
3. One more faction I think will be nice. I didn't really like the Death/Inferno merge but it will do I guess
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted February 23, 2014 04:13 PM |
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My favorite Heroes version? H3, specially with WoG.
Why is not Heroes IV?
Unbalanced factions, AI is mostly unable to beat the map at higher difficulty levels.
I hate the way computer seems fixed on Combat Skills. Transform a Necromancer in somekind of barbarian simply doesn't pay.
To be played against computer needs seriuos work like in "Around the Calender", "Angels are back" or Draconic.
But I love the concept. I think is by far the most ambicious of all heroes versions.
I love the music and the graphics, the moral/luck system,the creatures habilities and also the way you can combine two or three heroes in one army and make better use of artifacts (pathfinding and boots of travel, helm of command and tactics, Master's Spellbook and archmage class).
As map maker I like the neutral heroes concept (and the fact that you can use them to protect a mine or a garrison) and also the easy, even if limited, way to script.
Anyone who has ever tried to script in ERM can't underestimate it.
When H5 came out I felt very disapointed. I was expecting a better looking, more intelligent H4 and what I got was an horrible looking version of H3, with all his worst and none of his best.
The tactics being a subskill of attack was the thing I hated the most. Didn't played it for more then a month.
So, I also would be glad if Ubisoft looked at the product they own from another perspective.
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castlevania
Hired Hero
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posted February 23, 2014 04:46 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
My favorite Heroes version? H3, specially with WoG.
 I do not know but I do not like WoG I was excited at first but then I just prefer the normal version of Heroes III. I was sceptical about Horn of the Abyss because I though that it will be just another wog but man was I wrong.
The map editor is better than the original. And the new things are original and not made from different things like in WoG.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted February 23, 2014 08:52 PM |
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castlevania said:
And the new things are original and not made from different things like in WoG.
How originality of graphics can affect game play at all?
I don't like HMM4, it's very time consuming with all it's micromanagement. And creatures on maps often are too big even for hero with army from 1-2 towns.
Features I like are buildings in town blocking one kind of units by other. Now VCMI supports it from "box" finally.
And another thing I like is 5 levels of skill. This makes hero training more difficult and allows to specialize heroes on specific skills not taking first emerged good skill like in HMM3.
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