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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 22, 2013 02:13 AM |
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yeah, only about brainwashed people unable to vote correctly
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 22, 2013 11:37 AM |
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mvassilev said:
Agree to disagree? Innocent children are born and immediately indoctrinated into Islam and a backwards culture
That may be true for other religions aswell mvass. Just ask Elodin for example....
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And you think that's okay, that's their culture?
It's evil, and tolerating it is tolerating evil.
Different religions will always have different point of views to many things. "Evil" is completely non-objective, it is also just a matter of culture. And no, the american culture may not be the best example of how it works best. Because there, money and wealth is on spot no.1...and I am not sure this was the main idea benhind the creation of the world itself. Made by a God or by anything else...
And about voting for immigrants...
As long as corrupt politicians can be voted for by criminals, and as long as mass murderers are allowed to vote, I do not see any problem for an immigrant to vote aswell. An immigrant may have a better view of what is good for people than people like Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy or Anders Breivik!
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mvassilev
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posted December 22, 2013 03:59 PM |
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Quote:
That may be true for other religions aswell
Certainly. Children being brainwashed is always bad, whether it's into Christianity, Islam, nationalism, "alternative medicine", etc.Quote:
"Evil" is completely non-objective, it is also just a matter of culture. And no, the american culture may not be the best example of how it works best. Because there, money and wealth is on spot no.1...
Many pages have been written just on HC about whether there is objective morality. I'm sure you can find those topics. For now, I'll just say that disagreement about what's good and evil doesn't mean that there are no objective moral truths, just like disagreements about physics don't mean that it's subjective. As for your comment about America, it's a typical strawman of the US you make too often.
As for voting for immigrants compared to voting for criminals - there are two points to be made. First, maybe criminals shouldn't be allowed to vote, either. Second, criminals and immigrants aren't analogous in this case, because criminals don't change the composition of the voting public (because they're already here) and immigrants would. Think of a vote as a share of political power. In the case of criminals, those shares aren't going to anyone new, but in the case of immigrants, they would be.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Fauch
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 22, 2013 04:06 PM |
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mvassilev said:
Quote:
That may be true for other religions aswell
Certainly. Children being brainwashed is always bad, whether it's into Christianity, Islam, nationalism, "alternative medicine", etc.
maybe no one should ever get to vote? 
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mvassilev
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posted December 22, 2013 04:21 PM |
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No, here I'm just talking about cultural problems. People shouldn't be excluded from voting on the basis of being Christian or Muslim. The reason immigrants shouldn't be allowed to vote (without acquiring citizenship, which wouldn't be easy) is because it would require natives to give them something - shares of political power. Letting immigrants come freely is non-interference and doesn't require natives to give them anything, but that's no longer true if natives have to give them political power.
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Eccentric Opinion
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smithey
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Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted December 24, 2013 07:56 PM |
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All I got to say is this -
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/23/marks-and-spencer-muslim-alcohol
I would ship all their asses back home.. When I say "all" I mean those who refuse to adjust their ways and become a part of the society...
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Fauch
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posted December 24, 2013 08:30 PM |
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maybe that's the society which has trouble adjusting his ways? there isn't any harm in this example.
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smithey
Promising
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Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted December 25, 2013 12:32 AM |
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How you reckon that ? you figure a country should change its culture to cater to foreigners (who in the first place came to the said country for the things supplied by that same culture) ? Sure thing, in that case Im gonna rephrase my statement and say - I would ship your ass to Arab countries so they would change their culture in a manner that will suit you...
Fauch, Im disappointed with your lack of reason...
And no harm done ? By not serving a customer coz his standards dont meet hers ? Ohh boy
Europe is doomed due to its ignorance and inability to recognize the reality as it is... It is an ongoing war, in which side A is trying to take the higher road and cater to the other side, while the other side couldnt care less and will not rest untill they exterminate Side A's way of life... Europe is doomed...
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted December 25, 2013 01:12 AM |
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Damnt Fauch, I hear Taubira when I read what you wrote. Maybe then french deserve what comes to them, end of their culture, hegemony and pride. A nation of servants they will become, pants down in front of everyone.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 25, 2013 01:14 AM |
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Edited by Fauch at 01:15, 25 Dec 2013.
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why should anyone change his culture?
I understand people would get pissed if a clerk refused to serve them, but that's because we are born in the society of consumption. from what I know, according to islam, getting all you want, immediately isn't considered something normal.
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Europe is doomed due to its ignorance and inability to recognize the reality as it is...
that is to say?
we are already a nation of servants, with Hollande leading the way.
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smithey
Promising
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Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted December 25, 2013 01:33 AM |
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Edited by smithey at 01:34, 25 Dec 2013.
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Fauch said:
why should anyone change his culture?
I understand people would get pissed if a clerk refused to serve them, but that's because we are born in the society of consumption. from what I know, according to islam, getting all you want, immediately isn't considered something normal.
Coz you came to another man's country (for reasons known to you), you change and adapt to the new environment instead of demanding the environment to adapt to you...
I dont know about what Islam considers normal but I know one thing - When I go to Japan, I will do my best to act according to Japanese culture, and when I go to Arab country I will respect their culture, in neither of those places I will not try to force my beliefs/my way of life on their culture, coz Im just a guest/new citizen... That's how decent people act IMO
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we are already a nation of servants, with Hollande leading the way
Your statement is beyond ignorant, I suggest you visit an Arab country or two, and see what the future holds for your grandkids, once you do that, you will maybe grasp the misconception of the above statement...
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mvassilev
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posted December 25, 2013 02:03 AM |
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There's not enough information in this case to know exactly what went wrong. Did the store not know that the Muslim woman wouldn't sell alcohol? Most likely, the store assumed that she would, and the woman didn't think to bring it up (or didn't want to jeopardize her chances of being hired), so there was a miscommunication somewhere.
As for culture, it's only as good as the practices that contain it. It has no value in itself.
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Eccentric Opinion
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 25, 2013 02:08 AM |
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smithey said:
All I got to say is this -
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/23/marks-and-spencer-muslim-alcohol
I would ship all their asses back home.. When I say "all" I mean those who refuse to adjust their ways and become a part of the society...
I think in this example firing her would be enough, deportation is a little extreme. She wasn't rude to anyone and caused no real harm. If I was the employer, I would give her one and definitely last warning and if she refused to serve again, I would simply fire her.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 25, 2013 02:17 AM |
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Edited by Fauch at 02:25, 25 Dec 2013.
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I don't see how, in your example, the muslim woman is forcing his beliefs / way of life, on the customer.
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Your statement is beyond ignorant, I suggest you visit an Arab country or two, and see what the future holds for your grandkids, once you do that, you will maybe grasp the misconception of the above statement...
what do you mean? middle east countries seem to have some serious problems with religious extremists, but that's really not the case of France.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 25, 2013 02:25 AM |
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I think it's not an example of forcing beliefs but an example of demanding extra tolerance for religion. Normally unaccepted behavior doesn't magically transform into accepted behavior just because it's religious. (That's partly an American effect on the world, when their puritanism meets the immigration based structure and culture, religious beliefs keep getting "extra shield" all the time.)
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Fauch
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 25, 2013 02:32 AM |
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artu said:
I think it's not an example of forcing beliefs but an example of demanding extra tolerance for religion.
yeah, that's what I mean in my 1st post. it seems that just showing you are muslim is considered an act of agression sometimes
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Salamandre
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posted December 25, 2013 04:07 AM |
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Fauch said:
why should anyone change his culture?
In my mother culture, gypsies are considered sub-race by almost all Romanians. Now that I am in France, I guess you don't mind if I consider gypsies as less than amoebas, just because is my culture, right? Do you think those muslims who refuse to respect the country feeding them have better feelings toward you? Really?
Let aside the exaggerations, I consider the Muslims to be highly provocative and constantly test Europeans. A short peek into their every day sh*t holes of countries can very well explain why this feeling of frustration and truculence. Except the turks, the only ones with a healthy brain left. And, boy, those ex-brilliant Arabs were on top of the history for centuries, look what they became...religion guidance, heh.
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angelito
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posted December 25, 2013 11:18 AM |
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smithey said:
I dont know about what Islam considers normal but I know one thing - When I go to Japan, I will do my best to act according to Japanese culture, and when I go to Arab country I will respect their culture, in neither of those places I will not try to force my beliefs/my way of life on their culture, coz Im just a guest/new citizen... That's how decent people act IMO...
I think your behaviour in such a case is directly dependent on the way those natives treating you. If you're treated well and welcomed with opened arms, you will do your best aswell of course. But if you are "hated" from the very beginning, left out in every situation and categorized as a terrorist from the very start, your behaviour will be different, don't you think?
I know many muslims in germany, mostly turkish and africans, and they are all great guys. They are treated well, they never try to convince me of Allah, we have always great time.
--> What goes around, comes around!
As simple as that.
For every "bad" muslim, we have an arrogant christian...This evens itself out...
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kipshasz
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Elvin's Darkside
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posted December 25, 2013 12:01 PM |
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I agree with Angelito here.
If you go there and treat people like crap, they'll do the same bloody thing. I'd say we need to snowing ignore the whole islamophobia crap that comes from the states. in my country there were muslims living for at least 6 centuries, and no one sees a problem in it. I guess, it's the main phobia of the bums of brussells that sit around governing the EU. screw them.
my expirience with muslims is simple.
Most muslims in Lithuania are tatars, but we see some students from islamic African countries and arabia as well. Never seen one trying co convert anyone to islam, or being accused of being a terrorist.. Only religious talk I had with a couple of them is where to find a mosque in the city.
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smithey
Promising
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Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted December 25, 2013 02:07 PM |
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Fauch said:
Quote:
Your statement is beyond ignorant, I suggest you visit an Arab country or two, and see what the future holds for your grandkids, once you do that, you will maybe grasp the misconception of the above statement...
what do you mean? middle east countries seem to have some serious problems with religious extremists, but that's really not the case of France.
Yeah, its not the case in France right now, but thats the whole point of the thread - Islamization of Europe, hence I said "what the future holds for your grandkids"
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This thread is pages long: 
