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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted December 25, 2013 02:25 PM |
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Edited by smithey at 14:27, 25 Dec 2013.
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angelito said:
smithey said:
I dont know about what Islam considers normal but I know one thing - When I go to Japan, I will do my best to act according to Japanese culture, and when I go to Arab country I will respect their culture, in neither of those places I will not try to force my beliefs/my way of life on their culture, coz Im just a guest/new citizen... That's how decent people act IMO...
I think your behaviour in such a case is directly dependent on the way those natives treating you. If you're treated well and welcomed with opened arms, you will do your best aswell of course. But if you are "hated" from the very beginning, left out in every situation and categorized as a terrorist from the very start, your behaviour will be different, don't you think?
I know many muslims in germany, mostly turkish and africans, and they are all great guys. They are treated well, they never try to convince me of Allah, we have always great time.
--> What goes around, comes around!
As simple as that
For every "bad" muslim, we have an arrogant christian...This evens itself out...
Not to convince you of Allah brother, but to enforce their way of life on you, which will happen once they become the majority, I have spent 2 months in Berlin, above alexander platz there is a Turkish quarter, so I walk into a store and a muslim girl working there waves her hands at me and says "no german, no german".
Do you know what that means ? If a 19 yo Turkish girl, who works in a store cant be bothered to learn 10 words in German (which takes 2 hrs and is enough for basic communication) then she basically says - I dont want to be a part of your society...
How many kids do you have Angelito ? My guess is 1-2, my guess is you're paying 40% taxes each month, my guess is you're ignoring the fact that all your taxes are going to muslim families with 6 kids, same muslim families that dont really want to be a part of the society anyhow but rather have a society within society...
Sweden is number 2 in rape per capita (S africa number 1, raping a woman in S africa is believed to cure aids), majority of the rapists muslim immigrants, when a muslim teen has been asked about rapes, he replies - "its ok to rape a Swedish girl coz they're probably slu*s anyhow, its not the same as with muslim girls who must stay pure" - that is the state of mind of majority of muslims, thats how they're raised to think, if you're not a muslim you dont matter at all, that is never gonna change !!! A regular German is gonna marry a woman he loves regardless of her religion, a regular muslim will only marry a muslim girl (in 85%+ of the cases) coz muslims dont wanna be a part of the society, they wanna dictate their way of life...
Feel free to check the statistics, I bet most non-muslim girls who married muslims, had to convert to Islam, coz Islam leaves no place for other people, its not live and let live, its live my way or cease to exist..
It is not only Islam btw, Jews/christians have their extremes as well, but Islam is a pushy violent religion unlike the other two (at least in 2013)
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 25, 2013 02:51 PM |
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Although not completely off topic, your example isn't exactly about religion, is it? There will always be immigrants who are less drawn to integration/assimilation especially if they are populated enough to build their own community. I went to Miami and some Cuban immigrants couldn't speak English but only Spanish, we see Chinese immigrants speaking Chinese only all the time in US movies, there are European immigrants here in Istanbul who speak almost no Turkish at all... Muslim immigrants having integration problems doesn't automatically make that problem religion based. And although I think Islam is problematic and it really has compatibility issues, as I mentioned before, I think it's quite a distopian fantasy to imagine the minorities in Europe will populate enough to be the majority (at least in enough generations to remain not integrated at all) and then declare holy war and try to bring Sharia law to European countries. It's historically absurd.
Besides, Angelito tells you he has many friends who are Turks or Africans, I bet he can't speak Turkish or Swahili, so I'm guessing they are communicating in German. To your single example of an immigrant who does not integrate at all, he has many who did.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 25, 2013 02:52 PM |
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Kisphaz, as you said, you lived with for 6 centuries. Also your country wealth system does not invite new ones, far from that. On the other side, France got 8 million in the only last 20 years and keeps getting 300 000 every year, attracted by unreal advantages and positive discrimination.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 25, 2013 03:07 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 15:08, 25 Dec 2013.
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Quote:
I guess, it's the main phobia of the bums of brussells that sit around governing the EU. screw them.
and a strategy to distract us from what they are doing. actually, wasn't it with bush and his axis of evil that the whole islamophobia began?
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted December 25, 2013 03:19 PM |
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Edited by smithey at 15:22, 25 Dec 2013.
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artu said:
Although not completely off topic, your example isn't exactly about religion, is it? There will always be immigrants who are less drawn to integration/assimilation especially if they are populated enough to build their own community. I went to Miami and some Cuban immigrants couldn't speak English but only Spanish, we see Chinese immigrants speaking Chinese only all the time in US movies, there are European immigrants here in Istanbul who speak almost no Turkish at all... Muslim immigrants having integration problems doesn't automatically make that problem religion based. And although I think Islam is problematic and it really has compatibility issues, as I mentioned before, I think it's quite a distopian fantasy to imagine the minorities in Europe will populate enough to be the majority (at least in enough generations to remain not integrated at all) and then declare holy war and try to bring Sharia law to European countries. It's historically absurd.
Besides, Angelito tells you he has many friends who are Turks or Africans, I bet he can't speak Turkish or Swahili, so I'm guessing they are communicating in German. To your single example of an immigrant who does not integrate at all, he has many who did.
In queens they only speak Spanish, however they are learning and they certainly arent discriminating aka marrying only latin girls, far from it, Chinese are extremely racist (based on my personal experience) hence will marry mainly other Chinese people or whites (they dont have issues with whites due to racism) but thats mainly "old country oriented" Chinese people, modern types are mixing it like most Americans are.
I think you're wrong, coz even though the % is aprox 5%, it has been growing with each year, in a generation or two numbers will be even higher, and one of the biggest problems is your attitude - People dont care about the future, whether it is Islamization or destruction of planets resources, people dont think outside the box, about the not so distant future problems...
Angelito knows a few muslims, Im talking about the entire quarter thats literally in the middle of Berlin yet has no ties to Germany, and its not like Im saying all muslims are like that, far from it, there are many muslims who dont give a damn about religious BS, those are the good ones, the other ones dont view you as an equal and want to see your way of life destroyed, those are the same ones you will see making riots and resorting to violence everytime something doesnt go their way, and they represent the majority of muslims IMO, I see it here with orthodox jews as well, religious = depression of others (the most eff'd up thing about it is that they're doing so as a minority, which raises a question - what will it be like when they're the majority ? Answer - see Iran, Saudi arabia or smth alike)
P.s. There are already villages in Sweden (populated by muslims) where Sharia laws are being implemented and Swedish police rather not intervene to not upset the immigrants..
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 25, 2013 03:37 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 15:39, 25 Dec 2013.
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Quote:
My guess is 1-2, my guess is you're paying 40% taxes each month, my guess is you're ignoring the fact that all your taxes are going to muslim families with 6 kids, same muslim families that dont really want to be a part of the society anyhow but rather have a society within society...
apart maybe from impostors appearing at the tv, I have not yet read a single economist who said that. there isn't one who says the welfare system is the cause or even a part of the problem. and welfare doesn't really cost that much, compared to what is given to banks, or even EU. (well, when it comes to France at least)
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 25, 2013 03:45 PM |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 25, 2013 03:46 PM |
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Edited by artu at 15:52, 25 Dec 2013.
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Quote:
I think you're wrong, coz even though the % is aprox 5%, it has been growing with each year, in a generation or two numbers will be even bigger, and one of the biggest problems is your attitude - People dont care about the future, whether it is Islamization or destruction of planets resources, people dont think outside the box, about the not so distant future problems...
Well, YOU talked about Sharia Law coming, so I perceived it like you were talking about the future. In very near future, such a thing seems impossible anyway.
Quote:
There are already villages in Sweden (populated by muslims) where Sharia laws are being implemented and Swedish police rather not intervene to not upset the immigrants..
I don't know about the exact situation in Sweden but Sharia law has domestic sections (about marriage, inheritance etc etc) and criminal sections. I find it hard to believe in some parts of Sweden, they started to cut the hands of thieves or beat people who commit adultery with a stick.
A law that was formulated in feudal times replacing modern law by the hand of some minorities seems quite impossible not just because they are minorities, it simply wouldn't answer to the needs of its time. Saudi Arabia is not a post-industrial country and Iran has quite a different history, too. The Westernization in 20th Century was lead by a totalitarian regime and a series of corrupted governments which caused a reaction. (Some say that a similar effect although with a lesser extent is the reason the conservative muslims get so many votes in Turkey, too. It certainly is a factor.) My point is Sharia Law isnt even practiced in all of the muslim countries, let alone Europe:
Quote:
Thats mainly "old country oriented" Chinese people, modern types are mixing it like most Americans are.
It's quite reasonable to expect a similar development with the muslim immigrants too, once they spend a few generations there. That was what I meant by "at least in enough generations to remain not integrated at all."
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 25, 2013 04:22 PM |
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Reasonable yes, realistic not. Let's say you try to boil water but you keep adding cold water every 10 seconds, will it ever boil? No.
You can't expect to get integrated immigration if you let enter every year more than you can assimilate.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 25, 2013 04:31 PM |
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I agree with you that the numbers you gave about France are problematic. That's way too many new comers per year, especially considering they are usually from the poorest countries with bigger cultural gap. I guess the numbers arent that high everywhere else though.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted December 25, 2013 05:18 PM |
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@: Salamandre: Well, you're right, at some points.
Our Tatars as well as Karaims have adapted and merged with us over the centuries, but they still preserved their traditions and culture. an example of such merging is that cheburekki and kybyns( halfmoon shaped pastries with meat basically) are popular fast food items in here. Other muslims are from african nation, and Liban who come here to study medicine.
Now this gets interesting. All the scum from islamic countries, most notably afghans use Lithuania as a transit station to the EU. they get fake documents and marriages and blam! instant ticket to the EU where they can abuse the welfare of <insert western european country here>.
I'd say if you migrate to another country at least learn the snowing language. Also in my opinion, if you chose the path of an emigrant, at least put some good in the community you're going to. open a business,, or work your bloody arse off at a factory or something.
Also, nobody wants you to relinquish your tradition, just keep it yo your snowing self, not force it on others.
Quote:
It is not only Islam btw, Jews/christians have their extremes as well, but Islam is a pushy violent religion unlike the other two (at least in 2013)
this is the biggest load of bullsnow I've read in a while. Really.
@:Fauch: You're right, it escalated when Bush blew up the World trade center towers. But I'm not hearing the "muslims are invading us" crap from 'murica.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted December 25, 2013 05:22 PM |
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kipshasz said:
Quote:
It is not only Islam btw, Jews/christians have their extremes as well, but Islam is a pushy violent religion unlike the other two (at least in 2013)
this is the biggest load of bullsnow I've read in a while. Really.
I think you're just not aware of it due to not being overly exposed to it, however I would most certainly enjoy hearing why its such BS in your opinion
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted December 25, 2013 05:31 PM |
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artu said:
Quote:
There are already villages in Sweden (populated by muslims) where Sharia laws are being implemented and Swedish police rather not intervene to not upset the immigrants..
I don't know about the exact situation in Sweden but Sharia law has domestic sections (about marriage, inheritance etc etc) and criminal sections. I find it hard to believe in some parts of Sweden, they started to cut the hands of thieves or beat people who commit adultery with a stick.
A law that was formulated in feudal times replacing modern law by the hand of some minorities seems quite impossible not just because they are minorities, it simply wouldn't answer to the needs of its time. Saudi Arabia is not a post-industrial country and Iran has quite a different history, too. The Westernization in 20th Century was lead by a totalitarian regime and a series of corrupted governments which caused a reaction. (Some say that a similar effect although with a lesser extent is the reason the conservative muslims get so many votes in Turkey, too. It certainly is a factor.) My point is Sharia Law isnt even practiced in all of the muslim countries, let alone Europe:
I cant say I know to which extent such laws are implemented however I find it extremely unusual that there is a muslim committee deciding on vast issues while ignoring the laws of the country they live within, it makes no sense to me that a country allows "society within society" to play by their own rules... IMO such behavior will lead to their own demise, its like a dominant gene taking over the recessive one...
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted December 25, 2013 05:37 PM |
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allright, for example, jews are performing a bloody genocide on palestinians since... when they founded bloody israel after WW2.
and who orchestrated all this crap in middle east? certainly not muslims themselves. after WW2 there was the evil of communism. now we have evil of islam.
and it's not about religion itself. NO religion encourages war. only stupid people do. speak with any theologist about that.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 25, 2013 05:53 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 18:10, 25 Dec 2013.
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okay so now I've gotten over my post about citizenship (I strongly disagree with Mvass's view) getting deleted for no apparent reason so....
smithey said:
P.s. There are already villages in Sweden (populated by muslims) where Sharia laws are being implemented and Swedish police rather not intervene to not upset the immigrants..
WTF!? Where do you get your information from?
There is ZERO truth in this. The only country I know of that has appeased public demand for sharia, of which there is NONE in Sweden, is the UK. There is very little support that Muslims in Europe, or even their own countries, want to live in a Sharia state. Rather, I find it far more likely that European muslims are getting europeanised to share values of secularism and equality.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted December 25, 2013 05:57 PM |
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kipshasz said:
allright, for example, jews are performing a bloody genocide on palestinians since... when they founded bloody israel after WW2.
and who orchestrated all this crap in middle east? certainly not muslims themselves. after WW2 there was the evil of communism. now we have evil of islam.
and it's not about religion itself. NO religion encourages war. only stupid people do. speak with any theologist about that.
First of all I said there is extremism amongst jews and christians as well but that Islam is the most violent oriented...
Second of all, do you know what genocide is ? coz since 1948 aprox 50k palestinians have been killed, thats in 60+ years, forget about you disliking the jews for a second (I have no issue with that) and think logically - Israel , a country with a decent army, nuclear abilities, and in 60+ years 50.000 people is all they managed to kill ? If killing them aka genocide was the goal, dont you think they could kill 50k in a week instead of over 60 years ?
(for the sake of comparing - genocide - Turkey kills 1.000.000 kurds, Darfur genocide - 400.000 dead in 4 years)
Third part - Syria, Egypt, there are bloody revolutions going on there so while I do believe USA had smth to do with, muslims have a part in it as well..
Last part, Im not saying it encourages war, Im merely saying Islam is an agressive religion that solves many of its problems with violence...
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 25, 2013 06:04 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 18:20, 25 Dec 2013.
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communism and socialism are still considered evil. and islam is probably considered evil for the same reason, what religions teach usually seem closer to communism than capitalism. you don't see religions teaching you to accumulate as much as possible and not share with others.
Salamandre : ok, welfare was a bad chosen term, way too generic. yes of course, number of poors and unemployed are increasing, so spendings increase too. I'm not under the impression that people consider that paying for the pension of retired people or for the health system is bad, and I don't think that's the subject when we talk about a "muslim family with 6 children"
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted December 25, 2013 06:28 PM |
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xerox said:
okay so now I've gotten over my post about citizenship (I strongly disagree with Mvass's view) getting deleted for no apparent reason so....
smithey said:
P.s. There are already villages in Sweden (populated by muslims) where Sharia laws are being implemented and Swedish police rather not intervene to not upset the immigrants..
WTF!? Where do you get your information from?
There is ZERO truth in this. The only country I know of that has appeased public demand for sharia, of which there is NONE in Sweden, is the UK. There is very little support that Muslims in Europe, or even their own countries, want to live in a Sharia state. Rather, I find it far more likely that European muslims are getting europeanised to share values of secularism and equality.
Really ?
Are you not familiar with "Sveriges muslimska råd" and that they deal with "inner" issues according to sharia laws ?
Do you know whats going on in Malmo ?
Did you notice you can hear allah ahbar prayer in Stockholm now ?
Have you noticed a few months ago how muslims marched in Stockholm beating the living crap out of your Swede brothers (unprovoked) for no reason ?
Have you noticed that you're considered the rape capital of the world ?
Ohh and this is the best, your gov' issued a statement - Asylum for all Syrians, which is just amazing considering the fact that muslim population has doubled in Sweden in the past decade and that you Swedes barely make one baby per family...
Tolerant, Swedish indeed are... A couple of other words come to mind, but hey, if Im getting more upset over things like that than actual Swedes.. You will without a doubt reap what you sow 
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted December 25, 2013 06:59 PM |
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Genocide is a purposefull extermination of people because of race/ethnicity/religion etc. So I do know what it is. but it can last for decades and centuries. So if the jews would wipe out plaestinians the same way Hitler tried and failed to exterminate jews themselves, wouldn't that be recognized, like you know... instantly? Now the people of Palestina is doomed to a slow and painful extermination that no one will give a damn snow about it.
So yes, the invaded islamic countries solve some problems with violence. Gandhi's methods won't work on stupid bloodthirsty 'muricans & co. so we have suicide bombers running amok in Iraq and such. so yea. when USSR annexed the Baltics and other countries, guerilla fighters used the same snowing thing against soviet NKVD and their istrebiteli legioni, the so called defenders of the people. some rigged themselves with explosives and went to blow snow up. Another fun fact, the 'murica and NATO used the same techniques used by the Soviets in the recent middle east conflicts and the so called "war on terror".
It's called terrorism. by some. I call it defending your homeland by any means necesarry. As for the victims, You know the saying, "sacrifices must be made".
If they have issues within their country, let them snowing solve it themselves you bloody warmongering basterd sons of snows! If america wants war, and basically war is on what their whole snowing economy is based on, wage that war within your snowing borders!
Also, I'd recommend reading the book called "One God, Three Truths". pretty good insight on the maze of these three religions.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 25, 2013 07:06 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 19:27, 25 Dec 2013.
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Quote:
So if the jews would wipe out plaestinians the same way Hitler tried and failed to exterminate jews themselves, wouldn't that be recognized, like you know... instantly?
not sure, we don't have the right to say anything about jews. though people say it's sionists and not jews, but it's still considered anti-jews racism.
Quote:
Gandhi's methods won't work on stupid bloodthirsty 'muricans
maybe it would have more chances inside US. not sure. US army disobeying would be the best thing to happen, but so far, it seems not likely it will.
Quote:
If america wants war, and basically war is on what their whole snowing economy is based on, wage that war within your snowing borders!
exactly, it seems their economy is on the verge of collapsing, all those wars seem like their last resort to keep their dollar alive. there is less and less trust in dollars that USA prints like it was nothing. if they weren't that intimidating and bellicists, a good bunch of the world would probably stop buying so many dollars.
on that point, I've heard a couple of researchers recently saying that establishing and maintening a monetary system was overall, (and contrary to what we usually hear I think) rather based on coercition, than on trust.
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