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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 20, 2014 10:02 PM |
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As I've heard they didn't do a great job with the modding kit in Legacy either. I don't know if it's the same dev team but it certainly is the same publisher. Has Ubisoft learn nothing after all? They keep doing the same mistakes over and over again.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted May 20, 2014 10:53 PM |
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On MMX they totally screwed the modding part, announcing the release of a modding kit for which "modders will get access to almost everything in the game from level building, adding objects, changing textures, adding monsters, modifying values, creating texts, etc."
But when it was released, it turned out that it was actually the Unity Editor, which is behind a $1.500 paywall - yeah
It was a mistake from Limbic guys. Hopefully they won't repeat it on the future
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted May 21, 2014 03:12 PM |
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Quote:
I - What are your thoughts on how the franchise has been managed so far?
In a nutshell JVC had a vast vision for the HoMM world which lived till H4. Since then, Ubi has been tinkering with individual neighborhoods that old world without understanding (well) how all areas relate to the Game nor how the larger world (vision) relates to we the people.
Instead of a complete world of on-line-features(gamer's must-haves),Map/Camp-making tools and ease, Modding tools and ease and easy music format & pics etc. that has improved with age, UBI has held one component up at a time, as if it were optional. It may be optional to them but not to the many fans that favor more than one SP campaign experience and little else.
Quote:
II - Can you make a top of the biggest mistakes the devs have ever made (no number limit)?
*WORST. Acting (by way of what's released) as if the community support and creativity is unimportant; i.e. mapmaking fiascos and no modding vision.
*And just as bad, making a game that most PCs cannot run and even a person gets lucky...they find they purchased a beautiful bug-fest.
*Small amount of spells. Jeepers Devs, this is Might and MAGIC after all.
*I'm probably asking too much here but not having the sense or imagination to see/understand the importance of Quantomas' A.I. vision. How many complaints does it take for a company to understand..."We have a serious problem, our game's A.I. is consistently the butt of jokes." You would think having to script everything to make a decent campaign would have rattled some cages. Or We/I would think by default.
Quote:
III - What about top best decisions (again, no number limit)?
*I like the move to 3D but would now do it a bit different.
*H5 Skills
*H3 Map and Camp Editors
*Music for all terrains as well as Hero and special stuff.
***Point-lighting and Ambient-SkyDomes of the H5 Editor as well as the new feature provided by 3D..."Elevation"
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"Do your own research"
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted May 23, 2014 01:21 PM |
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Ok, so here I go with my thoughts on this matter:
I. It's all downhill at the moment; maybe things will get better, some of you think so, and you might be right, but until I see some tangible results I remain skeptical. Regarding Ubi, I can say that I think they did a good job with HoMM5 overall, so imagine my dissapointment on what was to follow; HoMM6 is a stain that they won't be able to eliminate, can they make amends for it? sure, but that should serve as an example for when they think about this franchise future.
II. I will refer here to the mistakes on HoMM 6 because the rest are ancient history.
- very poor resources were given to the developers ( people and money wise);
- they tried to change too much instead of improving on HoMM5, which as I mentioned was good, and would have been a good starting point;
- the skill/spell tree was absolutely dreadful, resulting in people no matter what they played having some straight forward optimal builds with no way to create diversity whitout the price of performance, I use the term performance lightly since this game was barely playable let alone competitive;
- despite postponing both the game and the expansion, when they came out, they were unfinished, untested, unplayable;
- the speed with which issues were resolved was nonexistent;
- no publicity, no marketing whatsoever;
- while having vips within the community might have been beneficial, this proved to be useless since nobody listened to what they had to say, and none of their ideas were taken into consideration;
- 5 factions is way way less than it should have been;
- making the warlock an inferno hero;
III. - they created a nice fantasy world with some good lore behind it;
- the factions seemed more well composed, creature wise in homm6 than before;
I cannot think of anything else good to say here.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 07, 2014 12:24 PM |
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Gonna port this here since it's related:
Stevie said:
I think that Heroes 7 is undoubtedly gonna happen. What's really uncertain is the "how". My prediction is this: It will be slightly better than H6 but worse than H5. There will be a bugfest with vanilla as we've seen with H6. There will be bad plot. And bad art, neon colors everywhere. There will be bad implementation of mechanics. There will be things that'll make little sense. There will be less than 7 factions even with expansions.
Simply put, it will be another disaster. Mark my words. When it gets out, come back and read this and tell me I was wrong, I dare you.
Also, I'm heavily doubting the whole "insider" thingy now. I'm kinda fed up with this lack of transparency from our own community members. I don't wanna bash on anyone, just expressing my discontent towards what I perceive as being a way to silence the community. What are we actually getting from all this? A chance to discuss with Ubi in order to improve Heroes? Or are they simply buying us by giving privileges to a few key people so the rest of us can shut up?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted June 07, 2014 02:21 PM |
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Stevie said:
I don't wanna bash on anyone, just expressing my discontent towards what I perceive as being a way to silence the community.
I've been very critic towards Ubisoft here for over 2 years, and I've never been told to shut up.
VIP/Insiders allow a direct contact between the communities and Ubisoft&dev team. How much is a different question.
On H6 obviously was too litle. And too late too? I'd swear it has been mentioned before this insiders communication didn't start after H6 was already in hands of BlackHole and it was too late for big changes.
On H7...we can't know it yet. We have to give them time and see how H7 is.
Stop with this paranoia nocence, Stevie.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 07, 2014 02:45 PM |
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The lack of transparency in all this VIP thing is no paranoia. There is no real communication between the Ubi and the community. It's just between them and some individuals. That's hardly what all this is supposed to be, unless this is what they aimed for from the beginning.
Tell me what discussion have you participated at? Has Ubi told you what they would like to bring with Heroes 7? What do you know exactly about the direction of the franchise? Unless you know more than me, you know nothing.
So for me this looks like a clever manipulation. A handful of people are more easy to handle than a community. And it switches the attention from them to the insiders.
My 2 cents. One thing's clear tho. I do not feel more informed or taken into consideration with this insider initiative at all.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted June 07, 2014 03:33 PM |
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Stevie said:
Tell me what discussion have you participated at? Has Ubi told you what they would like to bring with Heroes 7? What do you know exactly about the direction of the franchise? Unless you know more than me, you know nothing.
So for me this looks like a clever manipulation. A handful of people are more easy to handle than a community. And it switches the attention from them to the insiders.
No offense, but you are either naive, stupid or both at the same time.
I mean, do you really expect Ubisoft to talk with individuals? with each single one? Please give me a break.
In what world do you think you live???
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 07, 2014 03:58 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 16:12, 07 Jun 2014.
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You misunderstood me completely.
First of all, what is this initiative of "insiders" if not consulting individuals? Secondly, I was arguing AGAINST it. And not in the way that we should all be insiders - that's impossible and stupid. But! What I want to see is Ubi actually giving a fair chance for the community to express itself, not just some individuals. In other words, open and transparent discussions. That's quite the contrasts with the secrecy and people under NDA that we have now, don't you think?
It's not that I don't trust Elvis or JJ, it's that I don't trust Ubi. And this whole thing to me as an average heroes fan doesn't do much but raise more doubt. What am I supposed to think when I see some people being selected from amongst us as our representatives but can't say anything to us? That's supposed to be communication with the community? What's the difference between Elvis and an Ubi employee in regards to what they can tell you? It's 0!
And I'm unsure about how I am supposed to not feel offended when you call me stupid. But I'll let it slide since you probably misunderstood me.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 07, 2014 04:31 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 16:33, 07 Jun 2014.
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You should not trust ubi. The best you can do as a fan is show them what you want and shout against what you don't. If they did something wrong, point it out to them. If you do not like the games they make, then don't buy them. They'll get the message one way or the other.
The whole insider thingy is a mixed case. In H6 it clearly did not work as BH barely had the time to deliver the game, even after 4-5 delays, shortly before they went bankrupt. It is a miracle the game was even shipped as it was. People were shouting about the delays but they had no idea how relieved we were every time we got another one.. So if that situation were to repeat, there would be little point to us being there.
From ubi's side, having us there is very dangerous as we could leak sensitive information that could harm them. Without an NDA ubi would be taking a leap of faith, that we would not screw them over. This is not the way to do business and they have to protect themselves legally. Aside from that, accepting a group of individuals brings up other issues. You don't just hand over the keys of your apartment to a stranger, there can be all kinds of issues and meddling with your own stuff God knows they have heard all kinds of rants and arguments against a lot of their plans and ideas. Some of us are real thorns on their side heh But it cannot be helped and compromises have been made. The cooperation between ubi, the developers and us requires a delicate balance to work. And there are always time/budget constraints which means many good ideas have to be scrapped or be simplified. Even to the dismay of all parties.
Have they learnt enough to make it work? Only the results will show
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 07, 2014 04:43 PM |
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Wouldn't an Open Dev as seen with MMX or some other idea like that be a much more simpler and efficient way of consulting the community? You're carefree of leaking info, so no NDA, you let everyone express their opinion if they want to, not just some individiuals, and it's transparent so no secrecy, unlike the total darkness we live in now.
I'm sure Ubi hates that they have to take the community into account, us being thorns and meddling in their plans. And that what comes out of that is a compromise. But I'm happy that they struggle with it, rather than just cast us aside. After all we're the ones buying the game. Anyway, guess this insider thing is better than nothing at all, but I think it's not sufficient. Or maybe I'm asking too much... I dunno anymore, just gonna see what happens.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 07, 2014 04:59 PM |
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Why do you think the open dev initiative happened with MMX? Guess who the forerunner was
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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RedEmperor30
Famous Hero
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posted June 07, 2014 08:47 PM |
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I - What are your thoughts on how the franchise has been managed so far?
I have only been involved within the M&M and HOMM environment since H5 - so my exp with ubi is limited, that being said, H5 rocked it even with all its apparent bugs and the playability of it is and was fantastic. i wont even mention h6 <--- disastrous from get go, blackhole fall out etc etc, where there is smoke, there is bad administration. THEN along came polly - oh wait thats a different thread - along came Elvin teasing me into DoC - herald times and WOW game was new, fresh exciting - elo system was tough - challenging - decks were secret, bottom line i loved what they had created - hats off to them... but then....came their changes, and with multiple BAD decisions and the inevitable alienation of i would say 15000 players - sorry i digress - in short h6 was a disaster by the franchise and currently DoC is sliding in that general direction, they seriously need to up their game, breathe new life into DoC or face its end.
II - Can you make a top of the biggest mistakes the devs have ever made (no number limit)?
H6 - period
1. I think change in res system in DoC - making seals impossible to get
2. the news that they are NOT going to be releasing any new factions in DoC
3. ...did i mention H6
4. lack of marketing for DoC
5. it doesn't appear that the dev's listen much to the community, let alone hi-ranking players [enclase for all his bluster - was a great player/ enthusiastic player - he disappeared along with half his followers - with some really great points - which have not been taken into consideration!!]
6. focusing on what i see as soft patches instead of hard patch fixes - the ones that the community have "screamed out" for
7. bad/ no communication between support/ social platform and community
8. this is not really their responsibility, but i do believe that sites like mmdocking/ mmdoc.net ruined the "secret" build nature for players - these sites do not give opponent players the choice to reveal their deck or not - and i believe this has emphaised the carbon copy, 1 deck rules all scenario - in the beginning you had to craft your own deck based on the losses you had - which in turn gave you a much better understanding going forward. now it's jkkk posts a deck everyone copies and plays
9. no space for players to have free access to all cards to test decks, no change to ranking or resource, just pure testing - give them something to aim for.
III - What about top best decisions (again, no number limit)?
1. not releasing anymore expansions for H6
2. art department for DoC - phenomenal
3. storyline and history created by the might & magic franchise - so enticing HUGE
4. H5 plus expansion - i dont really care about the bugs, i played that game solid for 2 years + - loved the skill wheel for unique heros, loved the unique heros abilities that actually made a difference, loved how in expansion they gave a 2nd choice to upgraded creature, caravan rocked as well
5. R2P - DoC needs more tournaments, needs more participation - needs to make new players also feel like they can compete in a tournament and have a chance as well.
somewhat all over the place, easy to subpath off topic!!!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 07, 2014 09:05 PM |
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It's ok. DoC also uses this franchise as a setting, right?
But it's worrisome how these kind of things happen repeatedly not just with MM Heroes, but also with the other ones.
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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted June 07, 2014 09:24 PM |
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Elvin said:
And there are always time/budget constraints which means many good ideas have to be scrapped or be simplified. Even to the dismay of all parties.
Elvin, if you have one thing to say to Ubi and i think that the community would say to Ubi, it would be:
"Don't scrapped good ideas or simplifies them please, because we will buy your game at full price only if there are many good ideas"
Ubi have to understand that the price is not so important for a fan and also a lambda player, the quality of the game is the same one that will sell the game no matter the price.
So Ubi please take your time....
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red_flag
Known Hero
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posted June 11, 2014 08:12 PM |
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Edited by red_flag at 20:16, 11 Jun 2014.
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Stevie said:
The lack of transparency in all this VIP thing is no paranoia. There is no real communication between the Ubi and the community. It's just between them and some individuals. That's hardly what all this is supposed to be, unless this is what they aimed for from the beginning.
Tell me what discussion have you participated at? Has Ubi told you what they would like to bring with Heroes 7? What do you know exactly about the direction of the franchise? Unless you know more than me, you know nothing.
I well understand your feelings, I think the same. But on the other hand, you miss couple of things. What do you want to hear about heroes 7 if they still aren't announced? There are rules of business and here that you won't do, we need to wait for result only. Certainly, the result can disappoint and this presentiment forces to make attempts somehow to affect a situation. But if it is honest, there are professionals works in the industry, and there are we. Yes, we can be great players but insignificant game designer. I saw so many idiotic ideas at the forums, for example that in Heroes 7 need to be 1000 spells. How it to you? Now imagine hundreds ideas on several forums - who will manage it? Insiders? I’m not sure they want.
Therefore is Ubisoft put the money for talent of developers. In result or all will win or will lose. Such is reality.
Elvin said:
Nival had no community contact, was hardly professional
Are you serious? I think you just don't like Russians 
Also I will tell something about H7 engine that won't be pleasant for Elvin since if it is right, insiders can get under suspicion. Something occurs in Limbic and if it Heroes 7 – the engine will be Unreal Engine 3. But it is only my conclusions on the basis of information provided on their website.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted June 11, 2014 08:32 PM |
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Still the leak might be at Limbic and not with the insiderfans.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 11, 2014 08:48 PM |
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red_flag said:
Yes, we can be great players but insignificant game designer. I saw so many idiotic ideas at the forums, for example that in Heroes 7 need to be 1000 spells. How it to you? Now imagine hundreds ideas on several forums - who will manage it?
Back in H5 I saw a gargantuan community wishlist in the ubi forums and honestly? It didn't make sense. An idea can be great or poor depending on the game mechanics, how well it interacts with the game features or whether it is even supported by them. Throwing lots and lots of ideas together - some from good players, others from bad players, some being cool but not practical, others practical but no fun etc etc - is unlikely to yield good results. It is the developers that should have a vision and from there on they should see how the community's ideas will enrich and complement said vision. The community is fragmented and has different tastes when it comes to heroes features, to an outsider it would look like a cacophony of voices. Someone will have to grasp the community pulse and make the best out of it.
Elvin said:
Nival had no community contact, was hardly professional
Are you serious? I think you just don't like Russians
Nah, Russians are cool. But Nival did not act professionally in my eyes. They had very limited contact with the community and a particular member was sarcastic towards the fans and even went as far as to call us whiners. The map editor had so much leftover mess that a great mapmaker said it could only have been made under the influence of vodka. They said in public that they created stuff while ubi told them not to, something that should never have been done out of common courtesy. Ubi said the opposite but whatever the truth is, you don't take a dump on the people who feed you.
To me it looks like a questionable code of conduct.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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red_flag
Known Hero
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posted June 11, 2014 09:44 PM |
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Edited by red_flag at 21:51, 11 Jun 2014.
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War-overlord said:
Still the leak might be at Limbic and not with the insiderfans.
No leak, just several facts:
1 Unannounced project
We are currently working on our next "secret" production, which will be presented on this website as soon as it will reach its closed/open beta state.
http://www.limbic-entertainment.de/en/games/references
2 As additional support for our current AAA PC/Online production, Limbic Entertainment is looking for a
Lead programmer
Experience in working with the Unreal3 engine
http://www.might-and-magic.ru/uploads/monthly_12_2013/blogentry-3-0-45491000-1388350296.jpg
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?p=2586548
https://forums.epicgames.com/threads/952472-Limbic-Entertainment-is-hiring!
http://www.moddb.com/forum/thread/limbic-entertainment-is-hiring
3 As additional support for our current AAA PC/Online production, Limbic Entertainment is looking for a
(Senior) Level Designer
Extensive experience in designing levels for strategy games (TBS, RTS)
http://www.limbic-entertainment.de/en/jobs/how-we-work/senior-level-designer
So, easy make the conclusions for the hungry fan.
Elvin said:
Back in H5 I saw a gargantuan community wishlist in the ubi forums and honestly? It didn't make sense. An idea can be great or poor depending on the game mechanics, how well it interacts with the game features or whether it is even supported by them. Throwing lots and lots of ideas together - some from good players, others from bad players, some being cool but not practical, others practical but no fun etc etc - is unlikely to yield good results. It is the developers that should have a vision and from there on they should see how the community's ideas will enrich and complement said vision. The community is fragmented and has different tastes when it comes to heroes features, to an outsider it would look like a cacophony of voices. Someone will have to grasp the community pulse and make the best out of it.
So, exactly about that I tray to say. Everyone stating the idea considers it ingenious, everyone wants to participate in creation of Heroes. In practice it is the deadlock for developing.
Elvin said:
But Nival did not act professionally in my eyes.
…
To me it looks like a questionable code of conduct.
In this case I agree. But nevertheless Nival was under big pressure as from Ubisoft and fans who executed them long before there finished the game. I was the author of couple of unflattering pearls to. But years later I understand that Nival made great job, not ideal but great. The gameplay in Heroes 5 became much deeper and more fun. So, what we received from Black Hole - a half of game?. Therefore as technical specialists Nival are good, it for me is more important.
Elvin said:
The map editor had so much leftover mess that a great mapmaker said it could only have been made under the influence of vodka.
The map editor was taken and adapted from other Nival’s game. On the basis of that game the engine of Heroes 5 was created. Therefore the editor was initially written for experts, and then is already adapted for players as far as it was possible. So, it wasn't created initially for players, in it all problem.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 11, 2014 09:58 PM |
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red_flag said:
But years later I understand that Nival made great job, not ideal but great. The gameplay in Heroes 5 became much deeper and more fun. So, what we received from Black Hole - a half of game?. Therefore as technical specialists Nival are good, it for me is more important.
Nival's vision had plenty of flaws but they knew how to keep things fun  The skill structure and depth of combat were incredible.
red_flag said:
The map editor was taken and adapted from other Nival’s game. On the basis of that game the engine of Heroes 5 was created. Therefore the editor was initially written for experts, and then is already adapted for players as far as it was possible. So, it wasn't created initially for players, in it all problem.
I understand that the same happened with H6. The editor was so messy that it could not have been created with H6 in mind. You had to 'paint' the map with not only terrain but also combat paint because battles would not trigger otherwise. Wtf  The scripts were handy though, unlike H5 where you had to know the scripts by heart.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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This thread is pages long: 
