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| Thread: Do men really want to have children? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted May 18, 2014 10:29 PM |
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Thanks guys. I really appreciate the honesty and male perspective here. I guess maybe I should stop being so suspicious 
But you have all helped to clarify some things for me. 
And Bak - I don't get it????
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted May 18, 2014 11:05 PM |
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To be completely honest I think men and women want to have kids for the exact same reason.
You could say that men desire fatherhood to prove their potency, but if that's the case then certainly certain women want kids to prove that they are "real women" or whatever bullcrap.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted May 18, 2014 11:15 PM |
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Edited by meroe at 23:17, 18 May 2014.
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 To be honest Jaba, I don't think they do.
I think for women they have a strong biological and chemical impulsion to have babies. There has to be a real chemical kick there to want to put yourself through all that. I mean, women have all the bits installed ready for one tiny little sperm and they are pretty much doing it all by themselves. Not just pregnancy and childbirth, but child rearing too. Biologically its what we have been made to do.
I am not stating that I think men don't have some kind of broodiness or biological drive for children. Obviously I don't believe its the same as women's or as strong. So I was wondering, if it is there, how strong it gets or feels. Or if you really notice it all until you settle down with someone?
Because some of you guys who haven't already had kids are talking about having children at some point. And having a real desire for them.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted May 18, 2014 11:23 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 23:24, 18 May 2014.
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Yeah I guess you're right.
Sometimes when I'm out with my girlfriends and we see a bunch of younglings, they express their desire to have kids of their own. They explain it as if their womb is screaming for it.
What I meant was besides those biological reasons, I don't think there's a big difference between men and women.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 18, 2014 11:23 PM |
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Are you preparing for fornication or some such..
Anyway I wouldn't generalize, each person has his/her own reasons. I'm not surprised if people who do not want children have a harder time finding a partner, but I think it's because those people have closed doors which others, while not certain, find likely to be doors they want to go through at some point.
So I don't think it's as much a drive as it's the idea that children is not possible, at all.
Edit: Btw. there's always adoption..
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Living time backwards
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 18, 2014 11:31 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 23:32, 18 May 2014.
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meroe said:
I am not stating that I think men don't have some kind of broodiness or biological drive for children. Obviously I don't believe its the same as women's or as strong. So I was wondering, if it is there, how strong it gets or feels. Or if you really notice it all until you settle down with someone?
Because some of you guys who haven't already had kids are talking about having children at some point. And having a real desire for them.
I think I've never felt that desire.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 18, 2014 11:48 PM |
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Just read the whole thing...
I don't even...
I think...
Er...
This subject is too complicated for me. 
I just find it abnormal to be actively opposed to having kids. 
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted May 18, 2014 11:55 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 23:56, 18 May 2014.
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Why on earth would you find it abnormal? 
Biologically you could argue that having children is the purpose of life. We don't need to abide by that though, because in the animal world they have sexual desire make us want to have kids. But we have outsmarted nature itself by being able to have sex without producing kids.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted May 19, 2014 12:00 AM |
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Edited by meroe at 00:33, 19 May 2014.
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See Jaba that is partly what I am asking.
A man's desire to have sex surely is different to any desire he may have about having children????
I just can't believe they are the same.
Isn't it just about a man's desire to have sex and the procreation bit comes later. Maybe years later??
EDIT:
I am having to edit this here because I have overrun my post limit. Gee thanks.
I wanted to say this, but now my response won't be how I wanted it. But here goes:-
*slaps forehead*
"Should have just asked Joonas in the first place".
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 19, 2014 12:02 AM |
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Let's start with a couple of facts.
According to research people without children are happier than the people with them untill the age of 50-60, that is, the time that the children move out(they're significantly happier than their counterparts the rest of their lives though).
Small children set off a hormonal response in both the adults and the small children themselves that creates a strong imprinting both ways.
Think about that for a moment. Then read Angelito's, Markkur's and Corr's posts here. Markkur's post can be dismissed because he's already old enough to be at the happy part, enjoying the fruits of his labour(huehuehue). Angelito and Corr don't exactly seem sad about having kids though, do they? As rough as it sounds, they don't know what they're talking about. They can't take a step back and look at their own situation objectively because of the emotional connections that tie them down. They are living a "delusion"(if someone knows the right word here that would be much appreciated) where their mind is unable to properly assess the pros and cons of their own situation.(statistic averages, who knows, angelito and corr are both rich as hell so they are propably way happier than their average counterparts)
The fact is that raising children is a burden that takes more than it gives if happiness is the factor we use. They are an excellent experience gain though(but really, we all know gold beats experience anyway).
That is all averages though, you might be way happier with children than without. Then again, you might win the lottery too.
meroe said:
Roughly - "Do men really feel the need to breed?"
Do all women really feel the need to breed?
NO. So why should men?
Do most women really feel the need to breed?
YES. So why shouldn't men?
Do men really feel the need to breed?
On a statistical average, yes(the jury is still out on the taking responsibility part though).
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JoonasTo
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Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 19, 2014 12:06 AM |
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See meroe, having sex is just having sex. Fun and games.
Having kids is having kids. Serious business.
Separating the two is a good way to start.
Having kids is having kids. Serious business.
Raising kids is raising kids. A huge effort.
Separating the two is a great way to continue.
From a man's perspective, breeding only involves impregnating women. Raising kids is a whole other thing entirely.
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Jabanoss
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posted May 19, 2014 12:25 AM |
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Joonas is really hitting the nail on the head today, such a bright poster.
But yeah, having sex is very different from having kids.
I wonder though Joonas, if people who have kids are "deluded" by their connection to their kids, isn't this "delusion" keeping them happy? Kinda like a drug if you want to have a blunt metaphor.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted May 19, 2014 12:28 AM |
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Jabanoss said:
Joonas is really hitting the nail on the head today, such a bright poster.
Don't say it too loud or his ego will become unbearable
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 19, 2014 01:17 AM |
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So on to my take on the issue then. TLDR first:
Do I felt the need to breed? Yes.
Do I felt the need to have and raise kids? No.
The wall of text part:
Curiously, if you've read my rant you might know I'm a pretty weird person to be writing about this. I have for, pretty much all the time I've been a fertile, that is, since I was 9, felt the need to breed. So that is probably an inner mechanism that is hardwired into me. I have not been made aware of successfully accomplishing this need as of yet. Not that it would matter. There is no way to fulfill this need. There is no magic number that would make it disappear. If I could snap my fingers and make every female bear my child I would feel the urge to keep snapping my fingers(of course that would probably doom the human race due to too shallow gene pool and all that). This is in no way connected to sex for me. I don't feel the need to get the pleasure of the act itself. Just the end result. Thus snapping fingers would be just as good, if not better, than having sex.
The part about having and raising kids is way, way more complicated. I've thought about it a lot. Then I've thought about it again. And again. And again. But the more I think about it the more I find myself being against the idea. There are no real postives to it when looking at my life now and what it will be in the future. While I am more than confident in my ability to raise children I just do not see it as a good choice to make in the foreseeable future. I am already grasping at straws when it comes to fitting everything in my life. It is about to get a lot simpler in the next half-a-year or so but still far from what you'd call average.
Interestingly, if you've read my somewhat recent rant about my life you know this presents quite an interesting concept for me. I am practically a sociopath and if I had the choice I'd be a mother instead of a father. Which brings me to Meroe's question in an earlier post. Would I still want to breed if I had to go through childbirth? Yes I would.
In the end, I've dealt with this in a mvass kind of way, because the concept is not logically feasible for the current me I've pushed it back and diminished the need to practically non-existant. If someone asks me whether I want a family and kids the answer is still yes though. Just that I can't see myself arriving at the situation in the next five years unless something in my life takes a radical change.
I still think the best way to raise my first kid would be to pamper it like no tomorrow and the day it finishes high school kick it out to the world with nothing. That would be so glorious!
The second one would get nothing but would instead have to work it's ass off for everything it wanted. It'd be interesting to see what kind of relationship the two would end up having.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 19, 2014 01:25 AM |
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If you have trouble hittin the nail on the head just get a hammer big enough so you can't miss. 
Jabanoss said:
I wonder though Joonas, if people who have kids are "deluded" by their connection to their kids, isn't this "delusion" keeping them happy? Kinda like a drug if you want to have a blunt metaphor.
To be frank I've thought about this myself too. I can not say I know the answer.
If you ask someone they will probably tell you that of course children are a lot of work but they bring so much good into your life that it's all worth it.
When you ask people how happy they are the ones with the children, especially small children btw, don't rate themselves nearly as happy as the ones without children.
The best I can give you is that they are unable to clearly assess their own situation. Financial trouble, lack of time, increased stress might be the things causing the difference in happiness but perhaps they are not able to identify these or are unable to link them to having and raising children. *shrugs*
As I said, I'm not sure.
PS. I'm just using the "delusional" in lack of a more suitable word.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 19, 2014 01:35 AM |
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Edited by artu at 01:36, 19 May 2014.
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JonaasTo said:
When you ask people how happy they are the ones with the children, especially small children btw, don't rate themselves nearly as happy as the ones without children.
That may vary from culture to culture. In countries such as US, Italy, Turkey, Spain, the family ties are stronger compared to Nordic countries. People keep in touch with their family and they share more. So the ones without kids are more likely to feel like they are missing out on something great.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 19, 2014 01:36 AM |
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Not speaking of my experience but crossborder studies done on the subject.
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smithey
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Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 19, 2014 08:59 AM |
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Edited by smithey at 09:06, 19 May 2014.
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meroe said:
This is something that has been bothering me for quite some time and male perspectives, honest perspectives on this issue would be a great help.
Do men really want to have children?
As a female of the species who has no desire whatsoever to breed, I am constantly surprised at the amount of men who have told me that they would love to have children one day. In fact many guys have even told me that it is imperative that they become fathers'.
I really do not understand this. The obvious jokes aside i.e. "does a guy realize he is a father? Or does he just notice all the small people that live in his house?", what is a male perspective on having children.
As a specie, our biological instinct is to breed, Yes, most men want to have kids, whether its that biological thingy kicking in or our "Hybris" of wanting to have mini mes around, the feeling is present and it is strong within most guys and girls.
No kids means the end of the line, we were not "designed" to want the end of the line.
Self awareness however is usually not present in people, so while some "want" kids they might discover unfortunate facts after having kids, the same applies to those not wanting kids - The only thing one can truly know is that kids change you, how ? It's on each and every one to find out, or not to find out
Quote:
I have many questions, but I will try to keep it brief. Is the desire to become a father at some point in your life always there - compared to a woman's broodiness (for example)?
In most men, Yes, however there is that thing called individuality, so different men will have different needs, based on their childhood, education, traits... Parenthood is not for everybody.
Kids...
Quote:
If you really felt the need to become a father, but your partner/girlfriend/wife had no interest in ever having children. Would this affect your relationship with her? Would you stay and be childless or leave someone you claim to love and find someone else so you can have children?
This depends on the person obviously, but yes, this can be a game breaker as its a huge issue, for either of the sexes btw - guy who doesnt want kids or a girl who doesnt want kids - either way you look at it, one side has to make a huge sacrifice hence - game breaker...
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Or is the issue of having children out of your hands? You become a father when your partner decides she wants children? How do you feel about that? Is that the norm?
I dont think its the norm, some couples plan it, to others it just happens (coz the girl wanted it to happen or coz of an accident), I dont see it as an issue, as its how you deal with it as a couple that matters. Trust is important and should play a big part in baby making
Quote:
Did you plan parenthood with your partner? Or was it a happy accident?
It was an unhappy accident, she adopted a cat
I am not going to include abortion in this topic as it doesn't really apply, as I am asking if men truly get broody and have a desperate need to pass on their genes.
With a rather disturbing msg the Roots got one thing right - "you'll be keeping my legend live"
Seed...
With all that being said, each person is an individual and has his/her own path, dont be bullied into smth you dont want, its your life and you know whats best for you, be true to yourself and be happy, with or without kids, man or a woman, coz at the end of the day that's what's important, to look back and have no regrets..
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She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
I got better
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted May 19, 2014 12:52 PM |
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meroe said:
See Jaba that is partly what I am asking.
A man's desire to have sex surely is different to any desire he may have about having children????
I just can't believe they are the same.
Isn't it just about a man's desire to have sex and the procreation bit comes later. Maybe years later??
EDIT:
I am having to edit this here because I have overrun my post limit. Gee thanks.
I wanted to say this, but now my response won't be how I wanted it. But here goes:-
*slaps forehead*
"Should have just asked Joonas in the first place".
snowing post limit snow, Youve made more than a thousand posts and still you're being bothered by this crap.
Anyway I really don't bloody get you. First it seemed to me that you equated procreating to sex. It actually seems that you get the difference but believe that men think you want kids so that's what they say to get to snow with you. I'm not sure if you use condoms or pills when you have sex but if you do how would they ever keep that lie going beyond the first encounter with you? How would you believe it? Even sub-consciously.
Do you get into relationships where you do not want to have sex until you are absolutely certain you want kids? But then you don't want kids at all so are you just against having sex?
What the snow?
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Sandman
Known Hero
Fearsome Warrior
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posted May 19, 2014 12:54 PM |
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Joonas Its funny how you justify not have kids by saying people who have them are delusional?
Dont really see how im the delusional one when ive experienced both sides of the coin and you have obviously not
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