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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted August 26, 2015 08:41 PM |
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Edited by Steyn at 20:42, 26 Aug 2015.
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Marzhin said:
One thing that needs to be said is that Heroes is, on one hand, a very expensive game to make (tons of graphical assets and animations to produce, much more than in Civilization for instance), and on the other hand, it is a niche game, with what some would consider very old-school mechanics (it's turn-based, for a start), and it's only for PC, where piracy is a real issue (I've experimented it firsthand with MMXL, so trust me when I say it is painful). Long story short, we're not getting the budget of Assassin's Creed (for instance) because Heroes sells 10 times less than Assassin's Creed. It's as simple as that.
In the last decade or so, the cost of assets has skyrocketed to the point where making a new Heroes with the kind of old-school turn-based gameplay we all know and love without recycling is simply not viable anymore. It is sad, but it's the truth. We had to compromise, which is never pleasant but cannot be avoided, and went for 4 recycled units and 4 brand new ones in 3 of the factions (Haven, Necro and Dungeon), and completely new art and animations for the other 3 factions (Stronghold, Academy and Sylvan).
Would it help to use a more 2D style like Clash of Heroes, or would that not be cheaper. I, and I guess with me many more, would prefer the budget to be spend on improving and expanding the game-play, instead of on top-notch graphics.
You could even say that an old-school 2D style would fit the heroes game type.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted August 26, 2015 08:43 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 20:46, 26 Aug 2015.
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Steyn said:
Would it help to use a more 2D style like Clash of Heroes Heroes of Might and Magic I-IV
FTFY
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 26, 2015 08:56 PM |
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted August 26, 2015 08:58 PM |
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Marzhin said:
In the last decade or so, the cost of assets has skyrocketed to the point where making a new Heroes with the kind of old-school turn-based gameplay we all know and love without recycling is simply not viable anymore.
Does it mean that MMH7 is the last installment of Heroes franchise?..
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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted August 26, 2015 08:58 PM |
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Damn beta server problems.  Always just connecting to the server and time out.. .Online multiplayer doesnt work... Once i got in a russian server but after it when loading the map the game crashed to Win 8.1.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 26, 2015 09:00 PM |
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Why I can't simply understand is investing so many resources into high quality models when in-game they are represented in the tiniest sizes possible
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted August 26, 2015 09:02 PM |
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3lion said:
Does it mean that MMH7 is the last installment of Heroes franchise?..
fingers crossed, I would much rather remain happy with the Heroes games we have than see any more badly-designed bargain basement new ones that are so rushed and so bad they damage the series lol
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 26, 2015 09:03 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Why I can't simply understand is investing so many resources into high quality models when in-game they are represented in the tiniest sizes possible
So they can use budget as an excuse 
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted August 26, 2015 09:04 PM |
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What I would like to know is that is the current budget low as a result of the H6 sales figures or is the current budget an actual improvement compared to what Blackhole were working with. If it's the first then that I can accept if it will lead to a more complete Heroes experience down the line whichever iteration it may be but if it is the latter then the level of mismanagement during H6 development may have been bigger than we could have ever guessed.
I simply can not belive that having outsourced graphics development can take up this much of the development budget.
But before the nerdrage intensifies any further let me remind everyone that Gameplay > Graphics. So let's keep everything in perspective ok?
Map editor, RMG, modding and sim-turns are back and are all great features and their return is worth bearing with some reused art assets imo. (The question is why they were missing in the first place in H6.)
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 26, 2015 09:10 PM |
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fuChris said:
But before the nerdrage intensifies any further let me remind everyone that Gameplay > Graphics. So let's keep everything in perspective ok?
Map editor, RMG, modding and sim-turns are back and are all great features and their return is worth bearing with some reused art assets imo. (The question is why they were missing in the first place in H6.)
They are, to a certain degree. Crappy Hero Specializations, Skill pizza, bland creatures abilities and bad Magic System aren't (although that should be clear by now...)
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted August 26, 2015 09:12 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
They are, to a certain degree. Crappy Hero Specializations, Skill pizza, bland creatures abilities and bad Magic System aren't (although that should be clear by now...)
I consider all those "work in progress" untill atleast the second expansion. lol
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 26, 2015 09:13 PM |
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Why do people claim the skill system is skill-pizza? Some claim it is a skill-mess.
At least pizza is digestible.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted August 26, 2015 09:14 PM |
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You still want to expand this thing? Good grief!
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 26, 2015 09:15 PM |
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I blame Stevie, he likes to use that term too much
@Panda: 
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted August 26, 2015 09:19 PM |
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Thanks for the info Marzhin.
If your still around, is there any plans on giving necropolis and dungeon's reused units some more touch ups, like you guys wanted, in an expansion or update?
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drusain
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 26, 2015 09:20 PM |
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I got a key for buying H2 and H4 for a dollar, so I tried about an hour or so of Dungeon vs Haven, going in with very low expectations.
I pumped up skilling into Exploration/Logistics/etc to see how much a potential advantage I'd get over a faction who can't even unlock that tree and was really underwhelmed. Base movement was 22 and at Expert level that was bumped up to 25. which is really negligible considering the amount of points I spent into the Logistics skill set. Though Snatch was helpful, but is oddly a novice level skill.
At no point did I feel I was getting stronger with each level. That's a big problem. What keeps you engaged in these types of games is feeling like your skill choices make you feel strong, and if that feeling isn't there, then the game quickly feels dull and plodding. Hell, in H6 I felt more accomplished by Level 5 than I did in the H7 beta.
It could just be that choosing to go for Exploration/Logistics wasn't intended for your main character, but boy, did I get bored really quickly and I certainly didn't feel like I had any sort of map control advantage by skilling in Exploration.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted August 26, 2015 09:20 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Why do people claim the skill system is skill-pizza?
I don't know why.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted August 26, 2015 09:27 PM |
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fuChris said:
But before the nerdrage intensifies any further let me remind everyone that Gameplay> Graphics. So let's keep everything in perspective ok?
I always have completely agreed that gameplay is more important than graphics and would always accept less effort being allocated to that aspect if it makes the gameplay shine, but what gets my goat up is to see a game put in almost zero effort lol
the games are supposed to be professional efforts and I don't think it's right to compromise our high and even average expectations, Nival was rightly given a hard time for plagiarising Warhammer as they translated the series to 3D but christ, at the very least their plagiarised assets were new, when your graphics seem unfavourable compared to Heroes 5 I'd say there is a serious problem lol
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted August 26, 2015 09:29 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Why I can't simply understand is investing so many resources into high quality models when in-game they are represented in the tiniest sizes possible
This actually needs to be reposted and eventually answered by marzhin or someone else in charge.
Was it expensive to have better camera zoom?
We all know the game is not a seller. Yet better decisions could be made. But i m speaking without any experience on the matter.
Thanks to matzhin's truthful words (thank you for that) i now know there is no hope for inprovements. Playing one hour and already encountered more than ten bugs. Minor but still.. And the graphics....
Not going to spend 40 euros for an unfinished game.
And how does someone expects to make money from a non quality product? Are they depending on chance that someone buys it without knowing what ubisoft means???
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted August 26, 2015 09:37 PM |
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verriker said:
fuChris said:
But before the nerdrage intensifies any further let me remind everyone that Gameplay> Graphics. So let's keep everything in perspective ok?
I always have completely agreed that gameplay is more important than graphics and would always accept less effort being allocated to that aspect if it makes the gameplay shine, but what gets my goat up is to see a game put in almost zero effort lol
I would like to belive that Limbic/Blackhole put the effort in but if they have to make a game only using a rubberband, some string, a paperclip and some tinfoil instead of a normal budget then then some leniency is due.
It will not be enough to satisfy most fans but that is why I will only buy a gold edition sometime later. Depending on how good the game will end up being it may be at full price on release or maybe 10 years later for 5$ at some sale.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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