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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 01:23 PM |
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if the skills are boring to you please set the game to the random skill mode! 
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 01:36 PM |
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*Sigh*
Random skill mode isn't random at all, and random skill mode is still picking from your limited skill wheel. You will end up the same way than playing non-random.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 18, 2015 01:46 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 14:14, 18 Nov 2015.
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Weakness/despair/fortune are very bad for early creeping. Time control can help you in many cases though.
I agree creeping with dungeon with dark/prime is hard but not necessarily forcing you in offence route. You can creep well enough with confusion & smoke bomb. And that is only one skill point wasted for final battle because smoke bomb is very good for it.
EDIT: let`s be constructive here. I propose to discuss the following three buildings - blind brother monastery - random ability for 5 k, school of war - random might skill for 5k, arcane academy - same but for magic.
To clarify for school of war and arcane academy - you have to have picked the ability in the appropriate rank and then you advance to the next for the price.
I like those buildings but made the following mod in my map - reduced blind brother cost to 2500 and propose this to be official.
Reasons: School of war and arcane academy is completely controllable and therefore allows you to have one more skill/ability for final battle. A good reward for 5 K but blind brother monastery is totally(more or less) uncontrollable and you may end up with something you don`t need anyway and you paid the same steep price.
PLEASE DISCUSS
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 02:25 PM |
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I agree that Confusion and Smoke Bomb are pretty good - but both have consequences on your magic.
With Confusion you need the hero to attack - that means they cannot cast a spell.
Smoke Bomb is more or less poor man's Time Stasis, changing initiative - you still need some damage.
Offense isn't a wasted skill for final battle, especially considering effect of GM ability on the damage your assassins will do (that +1 damage will fully count). The same is true for the Trackers, less so for Medusas, but the full range thing makes sure you deals a crapload of ranged damage asap.
I mean, sure, you CAN find a workaround - but why would you?
The problem with the game is that your options are clearly laid out for you, because with every hero it's immediately clear what is possible - and more important, what is IMpossible. Since you cannot control which spells EXACTLY you get from the schools your hero will be able to excel in, you'll have to decide on which route offers best chances, and that route - for me at least - includes Offense.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 18, 2015 03:02 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 15:05, 18 Nov 2015.
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I was talking waster skill/ability in the face of confusion. Anyway..ofc if you hero can level up offence you get offence what is the deal here.
Smoke bomb
Trogs have poor init so they can`t engage proactively in combat but with smoke bomb you can use your two stacks to their maximum - trogs + shades.
Confusion
Do you cast a spell every turn? I feel bad if I cast two spells a battle and if I cast 3 I feel like a noob. So losing a turn is not a problem.
Damage
Trogs + Shades do damage and I was talking about the combo confusion & smoke bomb. Seriously first game with dungeon on my map it was very hard with dark/prime but then I found this combo and second game I was nearly on auto combat this was from first versions of map now guards are even stronger.
Remember to always do maximum damage with shades e.g - full flanking - if that means sacrificing single shade do it. Your poison will be greater too I think. I wonder why you think they don`t do damage - buy all 3 dungeon heroes from tavern. In all previous heroes it was normal to buy all heroes with army(3 for h3 and h5) on day 1.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 18, 2015 03:03 PM |
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natalka said:
EDIT: let`s be constructive here. I propose to discuss the following three buildings - blind brother monastery - random ability for 5 k, school of war - random might skill for 5k, arcane academy - same but for magic.
The one thing I dislike about the School of War / Arcane Academy is that you can arrive at them and not be able to learn anything from them, even if it's your first visit to them. In my opinion, you should always be able to learn something from them.
I would propose the following:
School of War / Arcane Academy: teaches the visiting Hero the next rank of a Might / Magic skill for a fee. If no such skills are available, it teaches the Hero an ability at the maximum unlocked rank of a randomly chosen Might / Magic skill.
So let's say a Hero with GM Defense has unlocked the Expert skill tier, but he didn't yet pick a Perk from the Expert Tier. He has no other Might skills that can be developed. Then he visits a School of War. Since no Might skill can be developed, a Perk is chosen instead. The only viable ones here are Evasion and Preemptive Strike. One of those is randomly assigned.
Another example, of a Hero who has Expert Air Magic and Master Earth Magic, neither tier has any Perks selected yet and no other Magic skills can be developed. The Hero visits an Arcane Academy. Available Perks are Master of Air II, Air Wisdom and Master of Earth III. One of those is assigned randomly.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 03:20 PM |
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natalka said:
buy all 3 dungeon heroes from tavern. In all previous heroes it was normal to buy all heroes with army(3 for h3 and h5) on day 1.
Not with the settings I play with, no.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 18, 2015 04:26 PM |
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natalka said:
Weakness/despair/fortune are very bad for early creeping. Time control can help you in many cases though.
I agree creeping with dungeon with dark/prime is hard but not necessarily forcing you in offence route. You can creep well enough with confusion & smoke bomb. And that is only one skill point wasted for final battle because smoke bomb is very good for it.
EDIT: let`s be constructive here. I propose to discuss the following three buildings - blind brother monastery - random ability for 5 k, school of war - random might skill for 5k, arcane academy - same but for magic.
To clarify for school of war and arcane academy - you have to have picked the ability in the appropriate rank and then you advance to the next for the price.
I like those buildings but made the following mod in my map - reduced blind brother cost to 2500 and propose this to be official.
Reasons: School of war and arcane academy is completely controllable and therefore allows you to have one more skill/ability for final battle. A good reward for 5 K but blind brother monastery is totally(more or less) uncontrollable and you may end up with something you don`t need anyway and you paid the same steep price.
PLEASE DISCUSS
I don't like their design. They should have been 2500 gold as you said but also have the option to pick between two abilities. There are plenty of junk or situational abilities amidst the good ones so going full random feels terrible.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 04:31 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
Upcoming content
OMG LUCRETIA YESSSSS.
Also Christan, Sephinroth, Nur, Naadir, Gem and Ivor.
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 05:26 PM |
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Glad Ivor is returning, my favorite hero of my favorite factions in h3 + 4. I wish he would have buffed the hunters in some way rather than being the ballista guy...
More neutrals, meh. Kappa look like they suck real bad. Mermaids could be cool, elementals look the same stat wise surprise suprise. And panthers! 3/5 have 6 movement which is probably not far off to the % of units in the game with that amount. Surprises everywhere. And they're all taken from h6 
Not that I don't like free add ons...one newly made model for a new creature, or an existing one (looks at blackie) would look way better than importing 5 from h6. Imo.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 05:47 PM |
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Edited by Bitula at 17:54, 18 Nov 2015.
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Maurice said:
Bitula said:
"but that it's all over in turn 0, after you've picked your main hero"
OK, lets assume this is a true statement. But then is it because the Hero itself or because of the faction or the class of Heroes in general? Or anything else?
Isn't the answer rather obvious? It's because when you select a specific Hero, you select the skills you're interested in. Yes, you need to develop them, but given the narrow amount of skills, your path has been set for the most part. It's pretty much a given to develop the Faction skill and very likely the (G)M skills.
Sorry, I guess my question wasn't too clear. What I wanted to know is what widens the diversity (the difference between skills of different heroes, not amount) of skills of heroes. The hero itself, or the class or the faction of the hero? Or something else? What is (G)M?
Edit: not narrows, widens
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 06:14 PM |
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The_green_drag said:
Glad Ivor is returning, my favorite hero of my favorite factions in h3 + 4. I wish he would have buffed the hunters in some way rather than being the ballista guy...
More neutrals, meh. Kappa look like they suck real bad. Mermaids could be cool, elementals look the same stat wise surprise suprise. And panthers! 3/5 have 6 movement which is probably not far off to the % of units in the game with that amount. Surprises everywhere. And they're all taken from h6
Not that I don't like free add ons...one newly made model for a new creature, or an existing one (looks at blackie) would look way better than importing 5 from h6. Imo.
I wish they’d use up all models from H6. They were OK. And it is a good opportunity to merge the two games. H7 has a better mechanics and overall feel but I would have played H6 as well would it not end at 7 factions (I did buy it). Changing creature skills/stats is much cheaper than creating a new mode.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 18, 2015 06:15 PM |
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Bitula said:
Sorry, I guess my question wasn't too clear. What I wanted to know is what widens the diversity (the difference between skills of different heroes, not amount) of skills of heroes. The hero itself, or the class or the faction of the hero? Or something else? What is (G)M?
(G)M means (Grand)Master.
Not sure what you're asking for, though. Do you want to know a change that would remedy the issue of having a Hero's path laid out from day 0? Because no matter how many Skillwheels they design, the diversity will always be limited by the 10 pre-selected Skills in any Skillwheel.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 18, 2015 07:14 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 19:21, 18 Nov 2015.
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{i]Ivor
Ivor - Class Warden. This class has perfect defence and has also access to expert offence and GM leadership.(withouth looking @JJ) With this +50 init elves will surely go first in a might vs might battle which may decide the winner. Nevertheless I would like to have it I am sure it will not be second Wyngaal.
School of War, Arcane academy
Maurice, I am on the same page with you about this but why make it so strong and hard to core? I would like to give one random might or magic skill - it will still be controllable very much but not always offering you more viable skills.
Blind brother monastery
Ok 2500 gold for two completely random perks
Hall of heroes
I think there is a need of total redesign of the philosophy of it. Heroes (MMH) is a game of multiple heroes. I think even new players should play with at least 3 heroes and learn some basic chaining of troops. That`s where all the magic is.. I don`t know. In previous versions (h3 & h5) we had one native hero and one non-native hero from certain factions. If you were lucky you could get 2 native heroes( 5% chance or less).
Issue 1) We have expensive heroes who can`t be bought day 1. This should be doable on any difficulty.(normal, hard,heroic)
issue 2) we can buy more than 2 heroes with army
On many maps it will be smarter to NOT build completely for one day but buy a hero with army in the first week(s). I don`t know if that is the type of gameplay we all want? I think when the tavern became hall of heroes in MMH6 it totally lost sense. MMH6`s one was even more horrendous!
Skillwheels
OK Maurce, JJ I think I get what you want now. You want complete redesign and that won`t be bad in its sense and I was defending we can live with it why not get the best system possible ever, hell yeah.
BUT, gomaki, are you ready for a complete change of the skill system to a one similar to heroes IV?
There is no point otherwise ...
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 07:30 PM |
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Maurice said:
Bitula said:
Sorry, I guess my question wasn't too clear. What I wanted to know is what widens the diversity (the difference between skills of different heroes, not amount) of skills of heroes. The hero itself, or the class or the faction of the hero? Or something else? What is (G)M?
(G)M means (Grand)Master.
Not sure what you're asking for, though. Do you want to know a change that would remedy the issue of having a Hero's path laid out from day 0? Because no matter how many Skillwheels they design, the diversity will always be limited by the 10 pre-selected Skills in any Skillwheel.
Is it so that every Hero has 10 skills to choose from? Because if so, my question is/was, that how different are those skills for each Hero? I mean if I choose hero A, will his skill pool be significantly different from hero B, or the difference is rather on the level of the heroes class or faction or something else.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 18, 2015 07:55 PM |
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Bitula said:
Is it so that every Hero has 10 skills to choose from? Because if so, my question is/was, that how different are those skills for each Hero? I mean if I choose hero A, will his skill pool be significantly different from hero B, or the difference is rather on the level of the heroes class or faction or something else.
Ahh, I see. Well, I did make a post about it earlier, somewhere during launch of the game. The post can be found here. Also, check the changes to those charts from my post on page 8 of that same thread.
With that information, you can judge yourself just how much different the various Skillwheels really are.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 08:53 PM |
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I feel like I've been trolled and it makes me want to laugh.
Community rages about re-using assets from heroes 6,and we get h6 creatures for neutrals. Except from kappa, the rest were never bad so why not use them? But re-using as an idea is really irksome. In gameplay I don't think those units look bad.
Community asks for per-level specials and we get the exact same specials we all hated since h6. -.-
I truly believe they just can't figure out how to do it. Like really.
New content is nice, but if i don't see diversity in the skillwheels between classes,tooltip bugs,balancing,general bugs,then why add new bugs and stuff to be balanced?
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 18, 2015 08:56 PM |
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I'm doing a crossword right now and there is a question, to which the answer is "Cuirassier." If it wasn't for Heroes VII, then I wouldn't know their name So, it seems that picking unusual names for units might have a little bit of sense. 
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted November 18, 2015 09:03 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 21:13, 18 Nov 2015.
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I knew about that name from Age of Empires 3. They were rather common between the 15th and 18th centuries so I am not sure the name is unusual.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 18, 2015 09:17 PM |
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Gryphs said:
I knew about that name from Age of Empires 3. They were rather common between the 15th and 18th centuries so I am not sure the name is unusual.
Well, I've never met this name before it was shown on the Heroes VII website.
PS. They were in AoE 3?  I don't remember them (maybe because I haven't played the game for over six years.)
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
