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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted November 18, 2015 09:24 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
PS. They were in AoE 3?  I don't remember them (maybe because I haven't played the game for over six years.)
They were the Frenches special cavalry unit they upgraded to the Gendarme for the late game though.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 18, 2015 09:24 PM |
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There's an AoE III?! 
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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LightAvatarX
Known Hero
Water,Earth,Fire,Air
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posted November 18, 2015 09:25 PM |
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Yes,yes,yes,yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Next Academy hero then of Zehir is gay too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fehida,I love you!
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 18, 2015 09:45 PM |
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Gryphs said:
Pawek_13 said:
PS. They were in AoE 3? I don't remember them (maybe because I haven't played the game for over six years.)
They were the Frenches special cavalry unit they upgraded to the Gendarme for the late game though.
Alright, thanks.  This may be because I usually upgraded units from the lowest to the highest level at once, so I rarely stayed in the middle upgrade for too long.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 10:06 PM |
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I wonder if we will get a Gem/Yog vs Sandro DLC?
Now that Lucretia was added i can oficially start snowing for a Lucretia scenario or w.e.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted November 18, 2015 10:34 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
I wonder if we will get a Gem/Yog vs Sandro DLC?
Now that Lucretia was added i can oficially start snowing for a Lucretia scenario or w.e.
you are a curious guy, you are always saying the old universe and games were crap, but then go on to squee whenever an old universe hero is cloned or ask to copy paste stories that were already told into the Erwin universe lol
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 18, 2015 10:43 PM |
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verriker said:
GenyaArikado said:
I wonder if we will get a Gem/Yog vs Sandro DLC?
Now that Lucretia was added i can oficially start snowing for a Lucretia scenario or w.e.
you are a curious guy, you are always saying the old universe and games were crap, but then go on to squee whenever an old universe hero is cloned or ask to copy paste stories that were already told into the Erwin universe lol
Actually, i have never said that lol. I just point out the fallacies of your criticisms against Ashan by explaining how the same points applied to the old universe.
Besides, I'm also a sucker for retellings.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 18, 2015 11:00 PM |
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Wow, so they are adding a whole 5 new creatures, all of which are taken directly out of H6 if I'm not mistaken ... must have taken a big effort from their side.
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What will happen now?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 19, 2015 06:27 AM |
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Better in than out.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 19, 2015 06:59 AM |
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from my conversations with gomaki I have understood one thing. If we lay down the idea clearly and in details it is more likely to be pushed. If he gives a green light about skillwheels we can come up or we have already come up I am sure with something.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 08:22 AM |
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Gomaki has said there will be no redesign of the skillwheels - it's also difficult to imagine what that would do with the campaigns. If they had been interested (or less in love with what they did) in something else, there was time enough to do it a year ago - it wasn't like i wouldn't have tried to make them rethink this monster.
The only way I see to change something within the confines of the current system (a more revolutionary system would be a different game) is something I've also suggested immediately after this came out: to make each classes skill wheel less specific, by assigning conditions, but letting the players "fill in" the rest on the fly.
So each class wheel would consist of:
1) necessary specific skills (for example, the faction skill on GM; Priest must have GM Light; Necromancer must have GM Prime or some such;
2) necessary unspecific conditions; (for example, Class X must have no Magic GM skill, at most 1 Magic Master and at most 2 magic skills);
3) universal rules: (for example: no hero can have a GM in Offense and Defense).
Skill wheels would be empty, except the stuff heroes came with: a basic faction skill plus, if a special added something.
Also, should a certain class call for a specific skill being at a specific position, it would be in as well.
Now, obviously you wouldn't need 6 hero types for each class - but since they are all there, it would probably be fun to work out the minimum traits giving each class it's individual character.
Obviously, this would involve:
1) The faction skill (on GM);
2) probably another GM skill; this can be a Magic school or the skill I hate with a vengeance, Enlightenment/Paragon for Magic heroes; it can be every Might skill for Might heroes, but I would expect Luck as well (with Inferno heroes at the latest) and even Explorer (the Ranger?)(of course the Explorer skill needs some work).
3) Regulations: must have at least or at most a certain number of might, magic or neutral skills
This would obviously solve a lot, since the main thing you would win is the ability to combine magic schools. You might go with Fire and Defense, for example.
It would also be logical, since you'd gain individuality back which now is gone - and as I write this, it hits me again, how ridiculous it is to define things this far - that a fledgling hero is already defined to the end. For example, no Sylvan hero will ever have an interest in Light Magic - I mean, this is so obviously silly I still can't believe it did actually appear in a game.
Also, GMs in both Offense and Defense look like a game killer. I have no problem with that, within the rules and confines of this system - it's not that much of a stretch (on the contrary) to say that a GM ability means a hero is so much of a specialist for a specific skill that he cannot become a specialist in the opposing skill as well.
That would mean, other GM pairing would impossible as well:
1) Offense/Defense
2) Light/Dark
3) Earth/Air
4) Water/Fire
5) Either Prime and ANY other Magic or Prime/Enlightenment
I also suggest:
6) War Cries/Magic school
7) Economy/Explorer
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 19, 2015 08:28 AM |
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I am certain that it can be improved, what remains to be seen is to what extent And let's face it, everyone would like to see the skill system improved. Even within its framework.
Magic system would be significantly improved if only prebuilt guilds did not have a set specialization(that you would set when entering the town), classes had freedom of picking the magic skills in their skillwheel, situational spells were improved so as to be used more often or at least be comparable to the other spell(s) of their tier, GM magic skills were rebalanced and the ability to write spells you cannot learn in the spellbook in the hopes of unlocking them later. Forcing you to revisit locations to learn spells you could not the first time around is not only annoying but a pointless waste of time.
I have a question: Some heroes have a special that improves the mastery of a spell by 1 level, what happens if you have fully mastered its magic skill? Is there some kind of hidden formula so that the spell can jump to the next level or does the special become worthless? If not, what exactly was the point of that design?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 08:41 AM |
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Power during early game? They did say before their intentioms with specs were an starting bonus. But yeah its snowty if they basically becoke spec-less heroes later.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 19, 2015 09:01 AM |
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Elvin said:
I have a question: Some heroes have a special that improves the mastery of a spell by 1 level, what happens if you have fully mastered its magic skill? Is there some kind of hidden formula so that the spell can jump to the next level or does the special become worthless? If not, what exactly was the point of that design?
there are some heroes who can level up to expert and there it makes sense but for most it is pointless unless you make it so that the hero casts it at GM level. This way we can have stone skin specialist which can be good for final battles even if he provides 6-8 more defence than a usual hero. He will be not top choice but definitely viable and interesting.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 19, 2015 09:05 AM |
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And what happens if you have GM? 
Why not just make that +x% effectiveness and solve all problems..
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 19, 2015 09:13 AM |
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Ok to add up to JJ`s post I would say that developers have some elements set to certain factions so let`s use them in this way - Elves can always level up to M in Air, Earth, Water, Prime but can level up to E in fire, light, dark.
JJ, what do u think about orcs getting access to mass inner fire? Now only Vindicators and Blademages have access to fire and if more classes have it everybody will be dealing lots of damage.
I don`t agree with :
5) Either Prime and ANY other Magic or Prime/Enlightenment
I think there are classes now who have GM Prime and GM magic school and don`t think they are OP.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 09:45 AM |
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That's not out of OP but of RP reasons, but I wouldn't insist on it.
If (Mass) Inner Fire is too powerful, then it's a problem of (Mass) Inner Fire, not Fire Magic.
I'm not against "quirks" of one or two faction classes (so that SOME Elven classes would shy away from Masters in certain Magics - but why all? There should always be a "pariah" class prone to going taboo ways.
For example: an Inquisitor should ABSOLUTELY be able to learn Dark Magic, should they chose to (and of course find sorces for Dark spells). You know, Inquisitors would more often than not deal not only with demon cults but also with Malassa-heretics - and since you have to know their enemy they would be prone to succumb to the temptation of mastering the dark arts. I mean - why not? Play Inquisitor, have Underground with Dungeon town near you, conquer Dungeon town, root out Malassa heretics - and become a Dark Magician in the process. Sounds right, and sounds like the stuff, stories are made of, in this case the mad Inquisitor, casting Light, Fire and Dark spells and become a plague in the process.
Specifically for Orcs, I would allow GMs only for Earth or Air, for Orc Might heroes no more than one master in either Air or Earth, and no more than two magic skills in all.
What IS of course interesting with THAT way of dealing with class skill wheels would be a way to "invent" new INDIVIDUAL hero classes that would work only for one very specific hero. For example, Kunyak the Liberator might have been able to grandmaster Offense and Defense (allowing him to win even when badly outnumbered). Or imagine the skill wheel of the Demon Messiah 4 GMs - Demon racial, Academy racial (!) plus two magics or something like that.
So if we are stuck with that system, it must become more flexible!
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 19, 2015 10:02 AM |
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No inner fire is not poweful it is the same as stone skin but many classes have earth magic while only 2 might classes have fire magic.
there must be some restrictions for the sake of balance. I think orcs deal enough damage so no fire for them if they are might class. Also no earth and dark combined for necropolis heroes of any kind. Weakness is enough of "defence"spell if you put in there stone skin skeletons will never be killed 
Another balancing thing could be to double(1.5X) mana for using spells in the currently "pariah" schools.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 10:03 AM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 10:12, 19 Nov 2015.
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Elvin said:
And what happens if you have GM?
Why not just make that +x% effectiveness and solve all problems..
Well one way to look at this,is that if you cast that spell in a higher rank, you can spend less points in that particular magic school and go till expert
Just speculating the logic behind this.
As for the +x% effectiveness, given the state of the game and the nature of bugs, it's fair to say that ,unfortunately, this feature is way above the capabilities of the devs. And I'm saying this without a hint of hate. It's a fact by now.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 10:25 AM |
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For a couple of reasons offense is better than defense (with current rules; simultaneous retaliation would do a lot for making things equal, but isn't of course necessary), that's why offensive effects should be weaker than the corresponding defense effects (Inner Fire weaker than Stone Skin, that is, give less points).
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
