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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 19, 2015 10:36 AM |
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Edited by natalka at 11:10, 19 Nov 2015.
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Another issue I see is that each point difference in offece/defence gives 5 % bonus. Final battles last 2 turns. Not very tactical and academy`s racial becomes useless. Wasn`t they 2.5% before?
EDIT: my bad 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 19, 2015 10:41 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
As for the +x% effectiveness, given the state of the game and the nature of bugs, it's fair to say that ,unfortunately, this feature is way above the capabilities of the devs.
I find that hard to believe. Besides there are effects that give +x spellpowwer to certain spells.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 10:56 AM |
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It's like in H3, 5% attack and 2.5 % defense - that's because of division rules: +20 attack doubles damage, +20 defense halves it.
EDIT: The problem here is, that it only works within that window of effect. +40 Attack will triple damage, but +40 Defense would nullify it, which means, you'll be capped at +28 defense (damage will never be less than 30%, while you can have up to +60 attack for full effect.
(That's what BH tried to solve with their complicated formula and by bringing the effect down to 2 and 1 % per point, heroes getting 2 points per level raise.)
The underlying truth has always been that HoMM mechanisms should be simple - but that also means they work only within a certain moderate window, when things become too extreme, certain things are out of whack. There are a couple of H3 maps exploring and living off of this. For example, with the Behemoth (and in H7 with the Trackers), if you have a unit that ignores a significant part or even all of a unit defense, if that unit is led by a hero who has, say, 70 attack, the amount of damage such a stack does becomes staggering. Now hand a Barbarian Water Magic and Clone, let him Clone his Behemoths and you kill everything.
That's because the game has so many hard caps, one being level 30 for heroes here.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 19, 2015 12:06 PM |
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ok let`s not deviate much. What do u think about my proposition about orcs and fire magic and necros and earth magic.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 19, 2015 12:16 PM |
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I don't like it thematically but practically you may be right. I am waiting for the next patch to do some actual testing.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 12:48 PM |
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Maurice said:
Ahh, I see. Well, I did make a post about it earlier, somewhere during launch of the game. The post can be found here. Also, check the changes to those charts from my post on page 8 of that same thread.
With that information, you can judge yourself just how much different the various Skillwheels really are.
It seems that the individual Heroes are quite diverse compared to each other, so the day 0 complaint is just about when playing the same Hero? But given that Limbic added 12 new heroes in a single patch, the replay-ability isn’t in danger. I mean why would someone insist playing the same hero over-and-over again. And according to those tables they can add much more heroes and they will still be diverse. Is this “H7 is fundamentally flawed” argument just about the replay-ability of the same hero??? Really?
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 19, 2015 01:04 PM |
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gomaki said:
Those 2 elementals will also be able to be summoned with the spell 'Summon Elemental' for anyone curious. I'm still brainstorming a good way of making that spell more strategical with out straight up previewing what one you get.
I don`t think seeing what you get will make the spell OP because now it is very underpar - costs a lot, summons with 30 Magic about 15 elementals(IIRC). There are much better damage alternatives for a mage than to cast these weak in stats elementals in hope to do something in the battlefield.
I suggest increasing elementals summoned, because mage heroes are weaker in stats and if we want that elementals to shine on the battlefield we would like either:
1) increasing their stats based on Magic stat of hero
2) increasing their number which is summoned based on Magic
Even with these changes I don`t see a problem if the mage can see what exactly will be summoned. But then next question arises. When do those elementals change now? On his next creature turn or next round of battle. Next creature turn looks good too because that can be a lot of time in a hard battle.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 19, 2015 01:05 PM |
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Bitula said:
It seems that the individual Heroes are quite diverse compared to each other, so the day 0 complaint is just about when playing the same Hero? But given that Limbic added 12 new heroes in a single patch, the replay-ability isn’t in danger. I mean why would someone insist playing the same hero over-and-over again. And according to those tables they can add much more heroes and they will still be diverse. Is this “H7 is fundamentally flawed” argument just about the replay-ability of the same hero??? Really?
It doesn't matter if they have 10.000 Skillwheels that are all diverse. The fact is, you make that choice at day 0 (i.e. before the game starts) and then play with it. That's what matters.
And the new Heroes aren't adding new Classes, as far as I know. They simply get added to already existing Classes.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 19, 2015 01:17 PM |
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I agree now with you Maurice. Ofc we can live with that but why not get even more. Why settle for less 
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 01:26 PM |
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Maurice said:
It doesn't matter if they have 10.000 Skillwheels that are all diverse. The fact is, you make that choice at day 0 (i.e. before the game starts) and then play with it. That's what matters.
And the new Heroes aren't adding new Classes, as far as I know. They simply get added to already existing Classes.
I have no Idea why doesn’t that matter. Until you didn’t play all available heroes it does matter. And not only the skill factors into replay-ability. There are also different maps, different enemy factions, different order of skill pick. Removing the RP element just to have unlimited combination is a very bad idea IMO. I wouldn’t want that.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 01:56 PM |
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Right, why have something you always had.
It's REMOVING the RP element because you can't develop YOUR hero anymore - apart from the fact that this fixation to 10 skills is ridiculous. Imagine that! Haven heroes don't have ANY interest in Earth Magic AT ALL. Never. Any. And, magically, Elrath makes sure their spell books are prepared so that dark spells will be invisible.
Give me a break.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 19, 2015 02:40 PM |
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JJ, any thoughts on my point about the hall of heroes?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 03:00 PM |
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Enlighten me about that one - I don't seem to remember a point about the Hall of Heroes...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 19, 2015 03:09 PM |
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I really wish the random level ups simply dropped the wheel and gave each skill a different chance to appear, like H5 did. Something like 15% chance for favoured skills, 10% for common, 8% for average and 2-4% for rare.
Some banned skills would still apply to prevent level ups from becoming too random(and maintain a class differentiation) but it would be a lot less limited than the manual system that features as few as 9 skills. Honestly, I would MUCH prefer if some skills were harder to get than guaranteed access with a capped mastery.
Right now, there isn't much freedom of choice with half the skills capped at tier 2 and 3 skills having a GM. The game does NOT want you to experiment, it doesn't even give you an incentive. All heroes of the same class in multiplayer are bound to be variations of the same build. At least in H5 you could pursue a different build even if you picked the same skills: Attack could lead up to retribution or flaming ballista. Defense could go for stand your ground or power of endurance. Not all choices were meaningful but each offered a different gameplay.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 19, 2015 03:22 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 15:25, 19 Nov 2015.
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natalka said:
Hall of heroes
I think there is a need of total redesign of the philosophy of it. Heroes (MMH) is a game of multiple heroes. I think even new players should play with at least 3 heroes and learn some basic chaining of troops. That`s where all the magic is.. I don`t know. In previous versions (h3 & h5) we had one native hero and one non-native hero from certain factions. If you were lucky you could get 2 native heroes( 5% chance or less).
Issue 1) We have expensive heroes who can`t be bought day 1. This should be doable on any difficulty.(normal, hard,heroic)
issue 2) we can buy more than 2 heroes with army
On many maps it will be smarter to NOT build completely for one day but buy a hero with army in the first week(s). I don`t know if that is the type of gameplay we all want? I think when the tavern became hall of heroes in MMH6 it totally lost sense. MMH6`s one was even more horrendous!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 04:05 PM |
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I think standard gameplay should be with the ONE hero you start with.
Additional heroes should be part of a decision the player makes, not a matter of cause.
Chaining is a logistics trick that - for me - is kind of an oversight, because it allows all kinds of illogical things.
I don't mind it works that way, but the method used in H4 is somewhat more logical.
As it is, logistics plays too big a role, when it comes to serious playing, because it actually has nothing to do with the game; why have Caravans when you can chain troops way faster than that?
Anyway - I don't mind it, but when maps are an exersize in solving logistics problem I quit - one of the reasons I stopped playing H3 online: I could just as well have played Rail Yard or something, since the game was more or less "asset shifting". 
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 04:38 PM |
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And Elvin has stated the essence of the skill wheel problem...it does not encourage players to experiment. A game that is 100% about replay value and they do this.
I also would like for them to open up (at least most) all skills if we choose to play random. If they have to turn off grand master abilities then so be it.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 04:42 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Right, why have something you always had.
It's REMOVING the RP element because you can't develop YOUR hero anymore - apart from the fact that this fixation to 10 skills is ridiculous. Imagine that! Haven heroes don't have ANY interest in Earth Magic AT ALL. Never. Any. And, magically, Elrath makes sure their spell books are prepared so that dark spells will be invisible.
Give me a break.
I don’t think reverting the meaning of RPG in CRPG solves anything. It’s the computer who creates roles, not you. All it means that you don’t like RP in Homm games. Whereas others do. Because you don’t care about RP right? You just want to experiment: all heroes should be able to do anything they want. Right? Because you find it exciting to play with an orc with grandmaster light magic, whereas I think, that is immersion breaking.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 19, 2015 04:48 PM |
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Ah, sure H7 invented the RP element for Heroes games.
I think, you don't really know what this is all about.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 19, 2015 04:49 PM |
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You mix having 3 heroes from start with expert chaining. Even newbie players would like to have 1 hero to explore and 1 close to gather what the main has freed. Heck that was my gameplay first times I ever touched heroes when I was a complete noob.
That was issue 1 , what do u think about having 5 heroes who all have armies?
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