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lordgraa
Promising
Famous Hero
The Whisperer
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posted August 16, 2016 01:58 PM |
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 16, 2016 02:19 PM |
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Most of the stats in h7 look pretty random to me and IMO most of them don't fit the units at all, unlike in previous heroes. For example genies are slow and beefy, dungeon dragons are weak and so on.
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted August 16, 2016 02:19 PM |
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Elvin said:
This is plain bizarre, the necro dragons have always been the weakest champion.
How this is bizare? Why always look back?
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Creature Scale mod (patch 2.2.1 compatible)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 16, 2016 02:23 PM |
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Because necro has always been numbers over might and vice versa for dungeon. It is fundamental. What next, make necro more mighty than stronghold? Sure it's a new approach but a crappy one.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted August 16, 2016 02:46 PM |
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Edited by 3lion at 14:50, 16 Aug 2016.
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Elvin said:
Because necro has always been numbers over might and vice versa for dungeon. It is fundamental. What next, make necro more mighty than stronghold? Sure it's a new approach but a crappy one.
I'm not sure that it is how it works. All champions in the game has the same growth. So you must adjust its power to the whole lineup, not just for comparing with other champions.
Yes, 1 vs 1 the Black Dragon will be weaker. But Black dragons are able to inflict a lot of damage with single AOE to the enemy's army. Even though Spectral dragon is stronger, he can't do this much damage since his AOE only one tile wide.
And considering, that Black Dragon has immune to all magic, and Spectral is not (Emerald Dragon immune to Earth and regenerates), I conclude that SPectral Dragon is the weakest dragon in the game.
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Creature Scale mod (patch 2.2.1 compatible)
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted August 16, 2016 02:46 PM |
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cleglaw said:
upgrading green dragon to emerald dragon makes no sense. all the stats remain same wtf! that made me angry. doesnt worth building/upgrading cost, its like scam.
You get Acid breath and +1 movement, so that's worth of upgrade for me.
Elvin said:
So.. H7 spectral dragons have the highest hp of all(490hp), surpassing titans, angels and blackies. Limbic didn't get the memo apparently 
No offense but do you realise that 99% of players don't care about spectral dragons being weaker in previous games?
I agree with some H7 critics and there are plenty of things I can understand being criticised/dislike but I don't agree with.
However I have no idea how can anyone really care about it. This is how the opinions about this community being conservative are born 
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted August 16, 2016 03:04 PM |
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The most shocking revelation for me was that some people play Rise of Hamsters! 
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
channeling capybara energy
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posted August 16, 2016 03:06 PM |
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IT's not about Spectral Dragon in particular, but the long-established tradition of Necro overwhelming opponents with superior numbers, not with quality of troops. In previous games, the champion unit reflected that, either with comparatively increased growth, or significantly cheaper building requirements and recruitment cost. The tradeoff being that they needed superior numbers to stand up to other factions' champions. This fit the overall necro playstyle like a glove, so now old players can find themselves skeptical of this change, and with good reason.
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Friend-shaped
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 16, 2016 03:12 PM |
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I do care and it's because Necro has always been about high numbers of weaker than average creatures, also consistent with the fact that most of them are fleshless bones devoid of life. Thanks to Limbic, that's no their trademark anymore.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted August 16, 2016 03:15 PM |
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Antalyan said:
No offense but do you realise that 99% of players don't care about spectral dragons being weaker in previous games?
do you realise that 99% of players don't care about Might and Magic: Erwins 7 lol
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2016 03:16 PM |
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Antalyan said:
No offense but do you realise that 99% of players don't care about spectral dragons being weaker in previous games?
I'm part of that 1% too then. I absolutely hated already in h6 that bone dragon were stronger than the real dragons(black dragons) which used to be always among the strongest creatures in the game. It also applied to necropolis in general, they were always team that relied on quantity over quality and it was characteristic for the faction(to me at least). That all changed in h6 and in the h7 where they thought all factions should have same units with just different textures. Only thing that reminds me of old necropolis is the actual necromany in h7 rising hordes of skeletons and ghosts(which was utterly unbalanced on big maps when I tried the game).
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 16, 2016 03:22 PM |
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Not that I defend h7, but necro never had the most "underdog" units, in heroes 2, skeletons were the best level 1 creature stat-wise, in heroes III, skeletons could beat most lvl 1 units in melee 1v1, liches were always above average and vampires were arguably the best on their tier due to OP life-drain, then there dread knights in h3 which were almost as good as level 7 units. Necro's essence was mainly in having a carousel of worst and best units to compensate for each other, the big ball of skeletons was the cherry on the top. Now don't get me wrong, h7 spiderpolis has poor-thought units, in fact most units are just like that, fit into a mold, nothing special, they seem rather stale as every faction kinda acts the same.
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted August 16, 2016 03:33 PM |
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The_Polyglot said:
IT's not about Spectral Dragon in particular, but the long-established tradition of Necro overwhelming opponents with superior numbers, not with quality of troops. In previous games, the champion unit reflected that, either with comparatively increased growth, or significantly cheaper building requirements and recruitment cost. The tradeoff being that they needed superior numbers to stand up to other factions' champions. This fit the overall necro playstyle like a glove, so now old players can find themselves skeptical of this change, and with good reason.
And in H7 you have this as well. Skeletons has the largest growths among all other creatures. Besides, the Necro Faction Ability allows you to get even more skeletons and ghost after each battle. I even think that this racial requires some nerf. Necromancer's hordes are so annoying.
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Creature Scale mod (patch 2.2.1 compatible)
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted August 16, 2016 03:33 PM |
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Elvin said:
So.. H7 spectral dragons have the highest hp of all(490hp), surpassing titans, angels and blackies. Limbic didn't get the memo apparently
Guess who's probably the over all best stats for any champion unit? Yeah that goes to swordmasters, those humans in armor with a sword. I mean there are ****ing Dragons in the game  but I guess 99% of players don't give a damn about how retarded it all seems 
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted August 16, 2016 03:42 PM |
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cleglaw said:
upgrading green dragon to emerald dragon makes no sense. all the stats remain same wtf! that made me angry. doesnt worth building/upgrading cost, its like scam.
Yep same with the giant -> Titan. One of the biggest upgrades in the game since the unit was created. Getting the powerful ranged tier 7 creature was an accomplishment!!! You felt good after getting all those gems and gold! Now it's...maybe star silver? Or blood crystal? Who gives a **** since you only need 5 of it. And the gold cost is the same as all the others. Stats of giant don't change, only the addiction of a ranged attack. its idiotic.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 16, 2016 03:55 PM |
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The sworddudes are on par with other champions because the devs thought of h4, when people would chose angels over champs almost all the time. So instead of fixing this problem by reducing building cost (in h4 champs dwelling was still fairly expensive), reducing requirements, making them cost only gold (in h4, champs also cost ore and wood), enhancing their growth and add some nice specials to make them a good choice in certain conditions, and a decent choice otherwise. In h3 terms, think of having swordmasters paladins, as having a lvl 7 dwelling that has few requirements, is cheap and can be build in week 1, while the angel dwelling requires lots of requirements and resources.
And the stupid reason they made the building dirt cheap, I bet it's because of h6, because 7 resources were "far too many", and to add 7 resources again they had to lower prices. That's stupid
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 16, 2016 04:47 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 16:51, 16 Aug 2016.
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I wish my problem was the spectrals. Ubi has systematically destroyed faction uniqueness and diversity despite their claims of pushing for it. It's not even about the tiers, skill system or growth, it's just a matter of terrible visualization and implementation.
Diversity has always been part of heroes' charm but everything is so uniform and artificial to the point of bordering on soulless now.
Fun fact, in H6 marksmen had more speed than cavaliers. It was changed after I brought it up.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted August 16, 2016 05:05 PM |
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I agree with you about the unit diversity, Elvin.
However thanks to these things like arguing about the power of spectral dragon being higher than in previous games, this community looks like from outside as it looks like - conservative and punctilious.
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted August 16, 2016 05:06 PM |
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The_Green_Drag said:
Yep same with the giant -> Titan. One of the biggest upgrades in the game since the unit was created. Getting the powerful ranged tier 7 creature was an accomplishment!!! You felt good after getting all those gems and gold!
Especially when you get them early W2. 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 16, 2016 05:26 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 17:27, 16 Aug 2016.
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Antalyan said:
I agree with you about the unit diversity, Elvin.
However thanks to these things like arguing about the power of spectral dragon being higher than in previous games, this community looks like from outside as it looks like - conservative and punctilious.
It's the other way around. Things like this make the current team look out of their depth. Skill/magic system, creature tiers, town screens, map visibility, hero classes, town development, even combat has been poorly designed. I have made numerous topics in the past of how they can become better but so far ubi has only succeeded in making them worse than before.
I do not want blind adherence to the past, what I want is improvement over the past. What I get instead is regression.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
