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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 06, 2016 09:29 PM |
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Who's who? I know the dork at the bottom, of course, but not sure on the rest  .
Spiders of the Apocalyps? 
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Valen-Teen
Famous Hero
UFOlolOgist
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posted October 06, 2016 09:35 PM |
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I want Heroes VIII anyway. Give it to me.
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Our hopes for Heroes VIII!
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted October 06, 2016 09:43 PM |
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Valen-Teen said:
I want Heroes VIII anyway. Give it to me.
I'm still waiting for Heroes 6 to be made lol
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 06, 2016 09:48 PM |
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Sumsum
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 06, 2016 09:59 PM |
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Where's Might And Magic Heroes I 
How can you stop making Heroes of Might and Magic after the 5th game was released, and released an apparently 6th Might and Magic Heroes, without releasing the first. Well done.
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olorin
Adventuring Hero
tophatchild.blogspot.com
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posted October 06, 2016 10:05 PM |
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Alright.... let me get this straight: does this 'Limbic Apocalypse' mean that 1. Heroes VII won't be having a fixed MP and 2. the memory leaks will persist in devouring it to the bone like... forever?
For f*** sake, I feel nothing but relief for not buying that big screw up. At least H6 was playable.
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Top Hat Child dixit: http://tophatchild.blogspot.com.es/
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted October 06, 2016 10:14 PM |
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Sumsum said:
Where's Might And Magic Heroes I
How can you stop making Heroes of Might and Magic after the 5th game was released, and released an apparently 6th Might and Magic Heroes, without releasing the first. Well done.
Retcon, I guess.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 06, 2016 11:51 PM |
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olorin said:
Alright.... let me get this straight: does this 'Limbic Apocalypse' mean that 1. Heroes VII won't be having a fixed MP and 2. the memory leaks will persist in devouring it to the bone like... forever?
I wasn't expecting much better, but I was almost barely convinced that they would at least leave the game without many major bugs? Haven't bought it either, but feeling rather cross with all this circus.
And, as Verriker pointed out, those two lines spoken by you-goddamn-know-who feels and digests wrong. We don't need to mull over for too long to get the feeling of a trolling farewell.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted October 07, 2016 12:17 AM |
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olorin said:
Alright.... let me get this straight: does this 'Limbic Apocalypse' mean that 1. Heroes VII won't be having a fixed MP and 2. the memory leaks will persist in devouring it to the bone like... forever?
In short....yes, lol.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 07, 2016 01:37 AM |
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Edited by Momo at 01:40, 07 Oct 2016.
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Storm-Giant said:
On the bright side, the endless bickering on this thread will end too, right?
I mean, it's officially dead, no reason to keep beating a dead horse lol
I never thought of this as "beating a dead horse". I always thought there is some (marginal) usefulness in debating about what went wrong. We may never come to a consensual agreement, but we could leave behind us some ideas that maybe, if someone ever develops a HoMM again, could be useful to them.
Following up, some issues that caught my interest.
Galaad said:
by people who were still rushing for capitol and using one main and a secondary, and they're doing the game. Jesus f Christ.
Interestingly enough, they designed maps and creatures placement so that only by doing exactly this (exploring and expanding only with a main and a secondary) you can progress in the game. The stratregical choice of having 4, 5, 6 heroes was cut away... as were many many others. Splitting armies, patrolling the borders and/or chokepoints, investing in magic researh, developing a different town... all made nihil in HOMM6 and blandly redesigned in HOMM7. Basically they put their efforts in making the game as dumb as they are. It is a jerkish thing to say, and I'm not proud that I'm saying it, but this is my impression. Hopefully if the series has a next installment it won't be plagued by this childish fear of complexity.
Galaad said:
IMHO this specific example would be very stupid, let's try and turn Starcraft into the Sims because "things change", and see how that goes. 
I really disagree with this one. Let's take the most successful (the only one?) instance of Ubi's M&M: it is different from the classic canon of HOMM3 in all its aspects, gameplay (riddled with puzzle elements), (Ashan-ian) lore, and manga-like feel... yet everyone agrees it was the only decent thing to come out of their hands. Clash of Heroes. How could Clash of Heroes be such a well received product when it has really nothing in common with HOMM3 and its legacy?
Well, for starters, it doesn't suck. Lore is decent, plot is decent, gameplay is good, the software plays smoothly. In other words, it's not a downright bad game. For the most part, it's really that simple: the latest HOMM chapters just weren't that much of a good job, and often a subpar one.
I think we should give more credit to ourselves and admit that we could be willing to forgive a change in the lore or in the gameplay or even many changes, if they weren't handled with such bold incompetence.
Now of course I'd love to see a RTS with a M&M setting but I'd be disturbed if it was sold as a HOMM, because HOMM is what it is (and first and foremost, it is a TBS), but that's another point.
More on this below:
Antalyan said:
What's the "true HoMM game"? I guess it's something completely different for each person.
Here lies your misconception. While not everyone will agree about everything that makes a HOMM game a HOMM game, you can get the general feeling of what people mean.
- HOMM is a TBS
- HOMM works with a three-parted gameplay (town management, battles and exploration all have its own system and interface)
- HOMM is settled in the world of M&M which has its own themes and lore and characters
- HOMM is a gameplay-centric title with little stress on the lore, highly customizable maps and a solid editor
- HOMM makes a strong point not in the depth of its economic or political system (it's easily outclassed by other TBS titles in that regard) but in the emphasis on combat management
- HOMM relishes in the variety of items, sidequests and minor events that are placed on the maps
The key point here is, you an step in as a new director and change one or two of these elements, and still get something that has a distinct HOMM feeling. But if you step in and change most of them or many at a time, you hare taking a very big gamble here, and should come up with an extraordinary product. Which was never the case with Ubisoft, not even once.
The point is not that nothing can be changed after the perfection peak of HOMM3, but rather that change in itself isn't a merit. You could very well choose the wrong things to change and/or change them with worse alternatives.
The need for change excuses nothing.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 07, 2016 01:55 AM |
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olorin said:
At least H6 was playable.
Glad to meet a fan boy that sees the truth for what it is. You must be a centrist.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 07, 2016 03:01 AM |
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Momo said:
Meh, we keep arguing on this but a while back Artu nailed it:
Artu said:
If done right, both a loyal sequel with not so radical enhancements or a completely fresh perspective will work.
H3 after H2 was an example to the first approach and it was right on spot. H5 was, in a way, a "back to roots" move, because H4 was a failed attempt at the second approach but it can also be partially seen as an example of the second approach, since it changed a lot compared to H2 after H3 and it was also a success. (Personally, I'll still take 3 over 5 any day, though.)
The bottom line is, if the game is good enough by itself in general, it's relevance to its predecessors won't be that determinative.
Still, I consider a loyal sequel to be safer. It was supposed to be h7! They ****ed up so bad, and even worse.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted October 07, 2016 03:15 AM |
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"Clash of Heroes" wasn't billed as a continuation of the HOMM line, though.
It was a "spinoff" thing.
Spinoffs don't have to be loyal to the mechanics or look and feel of their predecessors.
If it would have been billed as "HOMM X" instead of as "Clash of Heroes", people would have been mad, and understandably so.
So, you can make a Sims-Like Starcraft game, if you bill it as (for example) "Within Starcraft"... you just cannot call it "Starcraft III" and expect people not to be mad about it.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 07, 2016 08:29 AM |
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Momo said:
Basically they put their efforts in making the game as dumb as they are. It is a jerkish thing to say, and I'm not proud that I'm saying it, but this is my impression.
That is not incorrect. The team wanted to avoid percentages +x% because they thought it might confuse people. You also may have noticed that there is a reminder for your hero turn at the end of a combat round. Guess why? If they forgot their hero turn, maybe the players would too! Has any of you forgotten their hero turn in the last 5-10 years?
Back in H6 ubi clearly simplified the adventure map through conversion, universal growth pool, area of control, reduced amount of resources and locations and general lack of things to do. No incentive to rush for champions or mix armies, no real complexity in developing your town. They attempted to make homm a combat-focused game by completely neglecting economy, management and exploration.
Obviously they didn't want to stretch people's minds too much in case they sprained something. Mind you, I did not hate the resource reduction and area of control. Universal growth pool was also cool in campaigns if you wanted a smooth experience without bothering with chaining over distances that take a week to cover. But were they good moves? Not so much.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 07, 2016 09:08 AM |
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Elvin said:
Momo said:
Basically they put their efforts in making the game as dumb as they are. It is a jerkish thing to say, and I'm not proud that I'm saying it, but this is my impression.
That is not incorrect. The team wanted to avoid percentages +x% because they thought it might confuse people. You also may have noticed that there is a reminder for your hero turn at the end of a combat round. Guess why? If they forgot their hero turn, maybe the players would too! Has any of you forgotten their hero turn in the last 5-10 years?
I have 
For explanation, I gave H7 another try yesterday (and stumbled over plenty of bugs). I went with Bilashi (because his class is still the only one skill percentages are known for) and random skilling, and since I didn't get a Magic skill offered at all except Air Magic, even though gaining levels basically after every two fights, I wasn't prepared to pick my magic school beside Air (I really hate the way they implemented magic in the game). I hired Drahon as a secondary, and so I waded in Gnolls. I also got the Artefact that allows you to cast Regeneration once and another that allows casting Summon Elemental (same slot, so mutually exclusive). Add to that the fact that I HATE the FREE hero sttack (waste of an opportunity for a useful skill for Mights instead of the stupid Warcry skill) - and so I kept "forgetting" my great hero attack.
I mean, this is a showcase of how silly this is. If I'm not completely wrong the free hero attack was introduced in H5, to give players a chance to do something with their heroes in battle even if they couldn't use an active ability, because - think of the initiative system(!) - it would be boring (or strange), if it WAS the turn of the hero and you couldn't do anything.
When that was reverted to heroes having no specific turn, they kept that dumb free hero attack (can't have the players suffer an idle heroes), prompting them to warn players in H7 lest they didn't forget to act with their hero.
So for me, the reminder isn't the dumb thing here. The dumb thing is, keeping the free hero attack. It was sillyin H6 already because Heroes also had the racial action as well.
I also disagree a lot with Momo's last post.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 07, 2016 09:24 AM |
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You forgot it because you despise free hero attacks. Have you forgotten a turn when you wanted to cast a spell though? 
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 07, 2016 09:34 AM |
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No, of course not.
That's why I say, the reminder not to forget your hero action isn't silly, but a reminder of how silly the free hero attack is.
I mean, this is probably even true in general: if you have to be REMINDED of something, lest you don't forget it, the thing you are reminded of should be under investigation, because if players tend to forget it, there must be something that isn't quite right about it.
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted October 07, 2016 05:37 PM |
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Edited by SoilBurn at 17:41, 07 Oct 2016.
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Elvin said:
You also may have noticed that there is a reminder for your hero turn at the end of a combat round. Guess why? If they forgot their hero turn, maybe the players would too! Has any of you forgotten their hero turn in the last 5-10 years?
Is there anybody who has not forgotten their hero turn ever? lol
This happens all the time. This reminder at H7 was actually fantastic, it saved me many times.
Elvin said:
Back in H6 ubi clearly simplified the adventure map through conversion, universal growth pool, area of control, reduced amount of resources and locations and general lack of things to do. No incentive to rush for champions or mix armies, no real complexity in developing your town. They attempted to make homm a combat-focused game by completely neglecting economy, management and exploration
This is very true for H6 (one of the reasons why the game lacks replayability), but it got remedied in H7. Especially after the 2.2 economy changes, the town build-up has become much more flexible and dynamic now. Sometimes it makes sense to rush for the higher tiers, and sometimes it is simply bad strategy and you have to stick to a Core/Elite mix until you secure resources.
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted October 07, 2016 06:17 PM |
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Would be nice if they put a little effort into anything they did. The hero turn reminder is an okay feature but it also doesn't recognize when you're about to kill the last stack and end the friggin battle...
Hey I know you're about to kill the last stack but do you wanna attack it first and weaken it a little? No? Lemme ask you one more time...
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imid
Hired Hero
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posted October 08, 2016 01:02 AM |
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yep, indeed, H7 is an amazing game because the reminder of hero's turn was implemented correctly lol
i guess that H7 is a game for masochists lol
SoilBurn said:
Elvin said:
You also may have noticed that there is a reminder for your hero turn at the end of a combat round. Guess why? If they forgot their hero turn, maybe the players would too! Has any of you forgotten their hero turn in the last 5-10 years?
Is there anybody who has not forgotten their hero turn ever? lol
This happens all the time. This reminder at H7 was actually fantastic, it saved me many times.
Elvin said:
Back in H6 ubi clearly simplified the adventure map through conversion, universal growth pool, area of control, reduced amount of resources and locations and general lack of things to do. No incentive to rush for champions or mix armies, no real complexity in developing your town. They attempted to make homm a combat-focused game by completely neglecting economy, management and exploration
This is very true for H6 (one of the reasons why the game lacks replayability), but it got remedied in H7. Especially after the 2.2 economy changes, the town build-up has become much more flexible and dynamic now. Sometimes it makes sense to rush for the higher tiers, and sometimes it is simply bad strategy and you have to stick to a Core/Elite mix until you secure resources.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
