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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted June 25, 2018 11:55 AM |
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Sorry not skill, data!
Also the graphics (which is the best graphics still in Heroes franchise) more similar to the old 2D style on the map than in H5 or H7!
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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted June 25, 2018 01:25 PM |
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I was really sad though that there were no Academy faction in H6. It was almost completed but they couldn't put it in azt last because schedule problems.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted June 25, 2018 01:27 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 13:30, 25 Jun 2018.
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hahakocka said:
I think H6 after the expansion was quite good!
Not working skills, bugged dynasty weapons and unique buildings, nearly nothing to explore on adventure maps, overpowered Dungeon, weak champions and overpowered cores, non-existing AI (not working at all or hiring lots of 0 army heroes), ugly town screens which were created in hurry, (nearly) same line-up in every town (2 shooters, tank and damage dealer plus must have healer unit), lack of war machines, same skills for every heroes for (nearly) every class (because other suck), heroes level cap (try to play large map and see how fast you hit 30th level), lack of economy, messed game code, user-unfriendly map editor and UI, black screen with some graphic cards, few maps to play outside campaigns (and lack of random map generator), and not to mention about bugged scripts in campaigns (especially in expansion) and general illogical campaign heroes and plot, and of course always on-online requirements.
Yes, the graphic is fine but this game need a lot more than just graphics. Bosses are fine (especially when Ubi figured how to use them) but for me it's not enough to overcome other weakness of Heroes 6. Dynasty weapons, Reputation and Conflux were fine on paper but they were executed pretty badly in game.
I hope we won't see another Heroes game for some time because I don't think currently Ubisoft is capable to create anything good within this franchise. Heroes 7 was not only released 1 year too early (expansion fixed some of its problems but that's tip of the iceberg) but IMO it was overall released too soon after Heroes 6 fiasco without noticing its predecessor faults... and with Ubi tasked (again) a studio which was not capable (short of man-power and experience requirement) to make such a big game (not to mention Ubi butchered game budget to below minimum).
hahakocka said:
I was really sad though that there were no Academy faction in H6. It was almost completed but they couldn't put it in azt last because schedule problems.
Money, not schelude. 3D artworks are expensive and they weren't completed. Some samples were created but that's all.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 25, 2018 01:59 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 14:00, 25 Jun 2018.
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Avonu said:
I hope we won't see another Heroes game for some time because I don't think currently Ubisoft is capable to create anything good within this franchise. Heroes 7 was not only released 1 year too early (expansion fixed some of its problems but that's tip of the iceberg) but IMO it was overall released too soon after Heroes 6 fiasco without noticing its predecessor faults... and with Ubi tasked (again) a studio which was not capable (short of man-power and experience requirement) to make such a big game (not to mention Ubi butchered game budget to below minimum).
This, was thinking the same. I'd rather have a great title for the M&M series post 2020 than have another thrown-together crapware before then. I don't even care if it's a Heroes game, it can be RPG, 4X Grand Strategy or whatever, just as long as it's not rushed or cheap or just blatantly bad. The series needs a revival, a fresh start, an inspiring take to capture people's attention, and to that end I'm willing to wait for as long as it takes.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 25, 2018 04:54 PM |
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@Avonu
Nice post. I'd just add that latest patch made the game not work on some nVidia graphics. I was unable to run the game at all 
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted June 25, 2018 10:41 PM |
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Did you play the latest and last patch after the Shades expansion?
We played a multiplayer after a long time and there were no bugs! Also the skills that you write every hero got the same oh in H1-2-3 there were so little number or good skills that almost every hero pick the same if he got it by luck.... Here at least you can go for many ways not so much as in H5 or H7 yeah but for the all loved H3 the number of skills are much higher useful ones.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted June 25, 2018 11:48 PM |
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hahakocka said:
Did you play the latest and last patch after the Shades expansion?
Of course. And I was talking about H6 after the latest patch. I even run game few days ago, because someone reported that Conflux didn't work. It worked but guess what? It also deleted 5th trail slot from all my heroes (that one from expansion you bought by Uplay points). And it happened to other players too.
Conflux/Uplay had some issues and the game was unplayable.
hahakocka said:
We played a multiplayer after a long time and there were no bugs!
Sorry but I don't belive that there weren't any bugs, especially with bugged dynasty weapons (which for exapmle increase spell costs). And if you look at Steam forums, you can see many topics about black screen.
hahakocka said:
Also the skills that you write every hero got the same oh in H1-2-3 there were so little number or good skills that almost every hero pick the same if he got it by luck...
Yes, if RNGod was in your favour, otherwise you picked not so good skills but nevertheless useful (not Eagle Eye or Navigation on landmass maps through  ). And you could always visit Witch Hut or Scholar to get some random skills or University to pay for them... or visit Shrines to learn new spell. In Heroes 6 you don't have RNG, you always pick the same skills. There is no difference between various games unless you choose to make one on purpose.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted June 26, 2018 09:07 AM |
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We didnt use Dynasty weapons in multiplayer. We do in this way generally. I used them only in campaign.
IN H3 there are so few good skills there and because of that too with every faction!! you choos the same if you get the good ones! In H6 the baseline in skills generally that with every faction you choose variedly. Also you have two types of heroes and skills. (Might or magic 3-3 level of skills)
Also you can get new skills with blood or tear.
Also you can choose many passive skills.
At our almost 4 hour long 1v1v1 multiplayer 2 weeks ago no bugs were found!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 26, 2018 09:24 AM |
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Special abilities are a constant source of bugs, don't you worry  When you activate them, effects that would normally trigger tend to be ignored. At least they fixed the swapped resurrection between angel and archangel, it sucked so much to upgrade the unit and downgrade your resurrection.
Truthfully, if SoD was the vanilla version there would be some hope. I still remember how they avoided messing with the established gameplay because everytime they did that, they broke something.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted June 26, 2018 06:01 PM |
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Yeah but you know the original our hungraian developers were no more for a month after the release. They would be far more better because they know they own engine what was used in Armies of Exigo also.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 26, 2018 08:02 PM |
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Get real. The engine was one of the two big problems of the game. The second was the asset-wasting on campaigns (which is on Ubisoft).
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 26, 2018 10:04 PM |
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That was the most unfriendly editor I have tried. Creating a map was nerve wracking.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 26, 2018 10:07 PM |
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That engine was s***. As for map editor 
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 26, 2018 10:58 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 22:59, 26 Jun 2018.
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The engine itself wasn't the problem.
The problem was that it was rushed to meet some absurd requirtements.
This incluse Ubi always-online requirement and dynasty weapons.
I take the side of the developers, they hated Ubi as much as we do. They weren't given enough time. They also wanted to make Townscreens from the start, etc. and were told not to.
Also as much as people hate on the systems, I do believe that complex abilities with multiple results which slightly influence the game with a variety of modifiers are good. (if not buggy)
H3 had hidden abilities on creatures anyways and some bugs too (usually not game crashing, though, and not so many)...
And they did create nice 3D assets. That even got reused on Heroes 7. Lol.
That is not to say I like h6, I just think the developer's vision had potential.
And choosing skills is better for balance than random skills. In h3 you will often lose because the enemy got RNG the appropiate magic or skill and you didn't-.
H6 just needed more development time for bugfixing, balance and content creation to be a good game. And to get rid of stupid ubi always online and "dynasty weapon" requirements.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 27, 2018 12:09 AM |
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H6 was fine as an independent game. Just kinda failed as a homm game, it downplayed the adventure map and management. Homm has a lot more to it than tbs combat.
If we're talking improvements:
- Bosses were nice, could have a boss mode in duels. Whether as the boss or against it.
- More adventure map locations and default mixed stacks(too few units led to repetitive patterns).
- At least one extra rare resource. When crystals are used for dwellings AND special buildings, you know what you'll go for.
- Total town building redesign. H3,5 and even 7 had some good ideas on the matter.
- Let's not even discuss few towns, lack of sim turns, rmg, decent editor etc.
- Skill system complete redesign obviously. Ditch tabs, rework or ditch reputation mechanics, introduce faction specific abilities throughout the skills, rework racials, remove spells from skill system because it is in your best interest to minimize active skills, rework stats(luck/leadership not in primary, magic stats diluting the gameplay) etc.
-Tone down creature abilities to 1)avoid bugs 2)minimize shared abilities and focus on those that define units 3)avoid the cluster**** that we got
There is probably a lot more than I remember right now. But those would be a start on how to make H6 a proper homm game.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 27, 2018 12:43 AM |
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Quote:
it downplayed the adventure map and management. Homm has a lot more to it than tbs combat.
- At least one extra rare resource. When crystals are used for dwellings AND special buildings, you know what you'll go for.
THis was a directive of the mighty Erwan who thought there was too many resources and just glowy crystals would be the same, for example.
Quote:
- Let's not even discuss few towns
Again this is the fault of Ubi who wanted to spend less and rush the game.
Quote:
-Tone down creature abilities to 1)avoid bugs 2)minimize shared abilities and focus on those that define units 3)avoid the cluster**** that we got
I actually prefer many abilities such as in H6 than almost no abilities such as in H7 where are creatures hve one or two at most do-nothing passive """abilities""".
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 27, 2018 06:47 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 06:51, 27 Jun 2018.
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Of course you do but H7 was pretty terrible on that account. Like half the units have a 3x3 recoloured/renamed area attack
Some of the things H6 did well was choice between champions, increased synergy between the unit lineup, mass spells less effective than basic and buff/curse effects being affected by spellpower. Also nice gameplay evolution for some units and mana regeneration mechanics.
It had some good ideas, just plenty of bad ones.. But even so, it had a certain direction. H7 felt like it lacked identity, it mostly wanted to avoid the H6 shortcomings. The actually good things it brought to the table were too little, too late. And overshadowed by the bad decisions and plain mediocre implementations. I think it was JJ that said it was the best of, minus the best
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 27, 2018 10:55 AM |
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It is true, that while H6 had a CERTAIN direction (downwards, I could say, cynically), the problem is, that things were only half thought through.
As an example, H6 creature dwelling upgrades not only unlocked better, but more creatures, as everyone knows, and after playing the game for some time, things like "core domination" (even for the non-healer factions) were obvious.
I found myself wondering myself, why the hell it was so much better to go for core upgrades, instead of Elite new builds (as you would have in every HoMM before that - slip in a critical creature build on day 7 of a week, the works) - until I took Black Holes own "power ratings" all units had and checked how much "power rating" each creature dwelling would give to you and what you had to pay for the building in terms of gold and resources.
And that made things IMMEDIATELY clear, because it turned out that compared to Core and Core upgrade buildings everything else was WAY too expensive, which in turn led to patch 1.7 reducing building costs (except for Cores) dramatically (and moving Healer abilities to the upgrade of the Core).
So. How that could escape them, is anyone's guess. They may have had a direction, but they were not certainly not knowing what they were doing.
That said - The Ubihole combo had at least an excuse; they had tried to produce something new and simply miscalculated a couple of ramifications or not thought them as thoroughly through as it would have been possible. You might say, they were ambitious and failed spectacularly, still producing a game that was different.
But what excuse has the Ubilimb combo? Producing a mediocre mess you need top hardware for. And, man, in spite of that, how UGLY a game is H7 - and usually I'm pretty forgiving about graphics. Ugly, clunky, the exact opposite of everything the word "elegant" stands for, optically as well as technically and mechanically.
I mean, can you believe that when their parting shot came in the guise of an optional random skill system and I asked for their probabilities for the hero classes on steam, the answer was, "whatfor? It's random, after all." Probabilities were published, but as a private parting favor...)
Yeah, "best of". I admit, I was kinda negative right from the start, when I heard that was the plan - and then free-pick of skills was announced. "Best of minus best", alright.
Anyway. For what it's worth, I also think that H6 - if you are lucky with stability - offers good mp play. With the last patches, you have enough options for differing tactics. If it was stable and bug-free, it might have even made sense to put some modding work into the game.
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Laurens
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 27, 2018 11:43 AM |
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I'm also not happy with the new Heros. But I hope they make a Heros 8 with new focus on the Multiplayer. The current problem with the Multiplayer of Heros ist the instability and that the players can't operate on the same time.
A good example is CiV 5 or Total War. In the coop of Total War you can play together with one army and the same time. In heros you can only wait and hope that the other player is quickly finished his round.
Greetings from Germany
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Meine Webseite über [url=https://www.kompressorprofi.de/]Druckluft Kompressor[/url]
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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted June 27, 2018 10:16 PM |
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You can play with simultaneous mode in H5 and H7!
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
