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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 24, 2014 07:25 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 19:43, 24 Oct 2014.
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@ fred, I feel you. I'm not terribly proud of Ubisoft either. One thing I do give credit to them is for somehow keeping the franchise alive. Although to some that isn't necessarily a good thing, since they consider that it would be better off dead than alive in such a state.
But just wondering, are you following Heroes VII? What do you think, getting any good vibes?
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted October 24, 2014 07:27 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 19:33, 24 Oct 2014.
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Kimarous said:
Living in support columns sounds like a bad idea. You just know that one day they'll dig out a new room in the wrong spot, causing a chain reaction cave-in that destroys the entire city.
...sounds like it has storyline potential. 
They already did:
...Rokos, the deep place where Dark Elves trade with the things that live in the deeper darkness; and Renekon, which its on an island in the Great Waterfall that pours into the bottomless Abyss
This Abyss is one of few thing in Ashan which intrigues me... and that is not an easy task.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted October 24, 2014 07:49 PM |
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Personally, I don't have many qualms with the world of Ashan - if anything, I care for it more than Enroth (heresy, I know) - but I think one thing that really hurts the series is that the installments after H5 have been set earlier in the timeline. Sure, we don't know what happens to individual people, but the big events are already set in stone. The demons never win an Eclipse, both the Griffin and Falcon bloodlines survive the Second Eclipse, the Falcon bloodline falls to Jezebeth and Ivan reforms the empire under the Griffin banner... in terms of the broad narrative, there's no tension because we know what is going to happen: the heroes win the day. Had things been told in chronological order, the stakes of each installment would resonate all the stronger, allowing for more investment. As it stands, we're only going to worry about Ivan in gameplay terms, rather than in narrative.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 24, 2014 08:03 PM |
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Stevie said:
@fred, I feel you. I'm not terribly proud of Ubisoft either. One thing I do give credit to them is for somehow keeping the franchise alive. Although to some that isn't necessarily a good thing, since they consider that it would be better off dead than alive in such a state.
But just wondering, are you following Heroes VII? What do you think, getting some good vibes?
as far as keeping the franchise "alive", i really can't knock them for that. remember, the batman movies were all second-rate garbage after the first one, but then nolan came along... 
i stick my head in every now and then, concerning the newer heroes games. but like i said before, every "improvement" that i've seen, hasn't BEEN an actual improvement. just more hack work. and it's sad, it really is.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted October 24, 2014 08:50 PM |
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I do get good vibes with Heroes VII.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 24, 2014 09:05 PM |
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i get good vibes when i eat drugs, too.
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Kronos1000
Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
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posted October 24, 2014 09:10 PM |
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Wellplay said:
I do get good vibes with Heroes VII.
I agree. From the looks of it Heroes 7 is shaping up nicely.
____________
Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago?
Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa? - 'The Wanderer'
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A8T
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 24, 2014 09:13 PM |
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Avonu said:
Kimarous said:
Living in support columns sounds like a bad idea. You just know that one day they'll dig out a new room in the wrong spot, causing a chain reaction cave-in that destroys the entire city.
...sounds like it has storyline potential.
They already did:
...Rokos, the deep place where Dark Elves trade with the things that live in the deeper darkness; and Renekon, which its on an island in the Great Waterfall that pours into the bottomless Abyss
This Abyss is one of few thing in Ashan which intrigues me... and that is not an easy task.
Yeah, I always wondered about that Abyss. I would have thought that if you go too deep you end up in Sheog which we already know a fair bit about.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 24, 2014 09:53 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
This is exactly the kind of nitpicking that leads nowhere. The game can be perfect or at least acceptable as successor in any other aspect, but if the way they choose to present the units is not to my liking the game becomes unworthy.
That kind of rigid thinking is not helpful to the developers.
I heartedly disagree criticizing art direction is nitpicking, moreover in a fantasy game.
Visualy speaking I don't see what was the problem with keeping atmosphere established by NWC, Ubisoft decided to follow the generic trend instead, which is legitimately questionable.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted October 24, 2014 11:00 PM |
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Galaad said:
Visualy speaking I don't see what was the problem with keeping atmosphere established by NWC, Ubisoft decided to follow the generic trend instead, which is legitimately questionable.
I'm just glad Heroes didn't go downright anime after Clash of Heroes.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted October 24, 2014 11:10 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 23:12, 24 Oct 2014.
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fred79 said:
as far as keeping the franchise "alive", i really can't knock them for that. remember, the batman movies were all second-rate garbage after the first one, but then nolan came along...
I don't want to go too much off topic here but this comment shows how much an opinion may differ between two people. First Batman movies, yeah those bloated freaky Batmans, were more to my liking because they had this abstract atmosphere, quite true to the 90's Batman TV series which I really liked, while Nolan's Batman, aside from the fantastic Heath Ledgers Joker role, were not to my liking. I had a thought that the "Batman" character (a comic book character who's mind and motives were explored so many times already) was only an excuse for Nolan to make films the way he likes, overflowing with psychological and philosophical mumbo-jumbo, which are important in the case of Bruce Wayne character, but are not my idea of entertainment if overused. And I simply didn't like this modern-world setting. Batman should have his own setting. Arkham game series and their success can be used as reference here (actually I wouldn't mind if they made a movie out of that). Simply put, I didn't go with the hype and disliked Nolan's movies because I have a different view on how a Batman movie should look...
The same can be said about Heroes. I still had more fun with the "underdeveloped" H4 then with any Ubi era Heroes game... I guess so far, aside from some solid game mechanics (rest are hit n' miss) I can't seem to find "that something" in their Heroes games. So yeah, thanks for keeping the franchise alive, but keep trying 
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted October 24, 2014 11:10 PM |
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Well its H3 worshipers that say it doesn't matter how units look its gameplay that matters, that's why H3 is still the best. And now all of the sudden unit look is what matters most. It matters when you want it to matter and doesn't when it suits your argument.
And if you say that H3 units look superior to those of HV we have nothing to talk about.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 24, 2014 11:24 PM |
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I think it's a bit more complicated than that. I mean, in regards to me, yea, gameplay values way more than art and animations. That's not to say that I'm totally ignorant of that side of the game, because I too get the feeling of the universe from what I see and if that's not pleasing my eyes then there's definitely a problem there, at least for me.
But since we haven't seen anything in regards to art but Haven and Academy, and the environment in the demo, which are all still not final, I can only say that the direction of the art is fine with me. And I have hope that there will be a lot of improvements to the current setup, provided we as a community express our desires.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted October 24, 2014 11:26 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
Well its H3 worshipers that say it doesn't matter how units look its gameplay that matters, that's why H3 is still the best. And now all of the sudden unit look is what matters most. It matters when you want it to matter and doesn't when it suits your argument.
And if you say that H3 units look superior to those of HV we have nothing to talk about.
I'm a H3 worshiper and as much as I like the gameplay, it's artistic side and design are also what gives it a special place in my heart (how poetic is that!). Saying things like "I'm not talking to anyone who finds H3 graphics better then H5" does not speak well of you. Mona Lisa is an ugly b*tch, yet her portrait is the most valuable painting in the world. Meaning what, it's the prettiest portrait in the world? Does it mean anyone who says otherwise is inferior in some way?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 24, 2014 11:27 PM |
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at dw: i've never said that graphics don't matter, myself. graphics matter 50%. gameplay, the other 50. if you can't get the graphics right, don't expect me to bother with gameplay; because i'm not going to be interested.
but i wasn't only speaking of graphics, anyway. i DO read up on some of these games. and everything i read, tells me that i shouldn't waste my time caring about them.
my 2 cents.
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Adilmaru
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 24, 2014 11:31 PM |
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Expect to see so much rage in the next week when they announce winner. It is going to be: "OMG, NO INFERNO??? HOMM WITHOUT INFERNO IS NOT HOMM!!! THEY ARE HERE FROM THE 2nd GAME!!!"
And I am so happy not to see them again ! (Not saying that they are bad or boring, but for me they were always my least favorite race, especially in the 6th game.)
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted October 24, 2014 11:39 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
Well its H3 worshipers that say it doesn't matter how units look its gameplay that matters, that's why H3 is still the best. And now all of the sudden unit look is what matters most. It matters when you want it to matter and doesn't when it suits your argument.
And if you say that H3 units look superior to those of HV we have nothing to talk about.
uh i don't see why lol, I personally do think they look superior,
not even the first time someone here said "just shut up, H5 looks better, period" either, can you actually describe what you mean lol,
are you talking about actual design and style or just technical artistry? obviously H3 has prerender sprites, H5 is made 7 years later and is in 3D, so the creatures are "superior" on a technical level because they're not sprites, but I mean that's as flawed as telling me Michael Bay movies automatically look superior to David Fincher ones lol
H3 unit design is so coherent and immersive to me, believable proportions, simple and clear silouettes, good textures, every character looks distinct, well animated, and all round good art direction
H5 is like H3 on drugs lol, proportions are insane, units are overdecorated and messy, downright weird stuff like gargoyles and genies, several designs shamelessly ripped from Warhammer, pink Necropolis alts.. all over the place basically
that's just bad design and makes me think "ugh get this over the top Warcraft, Warhammer crap out of my series", I definitely wouldn't come in and shut down anyone saying H3 units look better than H5, so please be kind to explain lol
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted October 25, 2014 12:42 AM |
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dark-whisperer said:
Well its H3 worshipers that say it doesn't matter how units look its gameplay that matters, that's why H3 is still the best. And now all of the sudden unit look is what matters most. It matters when you want it to matter and doesn't when it suits your argument.
It's almost as if "Heroes 3 worshippers" consist of individuals with different priorities. Shocking, innit?
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted October 25, 2014 12:52 AM |
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Let me put it this way.
If you think that any big developer in this time and age would choose to make a game using H3 technology instead of HV we have serious disagreement.
H3 looked good when it appeared but that kind of graphics belongs in the past. Do you think that any 15 year old would even think to pick up box with game made in 2014 with screenshots from Heroes 3 on cover?
I love heroes 3 but I'm not burdened with nostalgia.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted October 25, 2014 01:03 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 01:05, 25 Oct 2014.
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Let's not forget that graphical (fidelity?) and aesthetics are two quite different things.
I swear, "it's just nostalgia" is such a cliché argument,
I rather want it to die out so I can be nostalgic about it.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
