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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 09:31 AM |
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I still dont get it. Is Sandro good or bad guy? ... I mean skeleton ... I mean Lich 
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 30, 2015 10:06 AM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
I still dont get it. Is Sandro good or bad guy? ... I mean skeleton ... I mean Lich
NOooo he is not evil at all.. he just wants to conquer the world/destroy it (depends on the incarnation) for decorating purposes and to save all people from taxes.
For sakes he is almost a comic supervilian. Driven to have revange/power for some mediocer reason most people would get over in a few months. But he is just too good at beeing evil.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted January 30, 2015 10:15 AM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
I still dont get it. Is Sandro good or bad guy? ... I mean skeleton ... I mean Lich
Besides wanting to destroy all creation and reality as it exists, so he can create his own? Nah, he's a nice guy, just misunderstood  .
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shadowdust
Hired Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 10:26 AM |
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Maurice said:
Zombi_Wizzard said:
I still dont get it. Is Sandro good or bad guy? ... I mean skeleton ... I mean Lich
Besides wanting to destroy all creation and reality as it exists, so he can create his own? Nah, he's a nice guy, just misunderstood .
At least he has good intention 
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted January 30, 2015 10:39 AM |
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Maurice said:
Besides wanting to destroy all creation and reality as it exists, so he can create his own? Nah, he's a nice guy, just misunderstood .
He is egomaniac, not "just misunderstood".
He want to erase Ashan and create his own one - no one, who wants destroy Ashan could be called bad guy. He's our hero. 
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 30, 2015 10:43 AM |
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What was the Ancients smoking when they came up with Ashan? 
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted January 30, 2015 10:43 AM |
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Maurice said:
Just grabbing back to this statement, because I do see a clear advantage. In the current setting, a Lich needs to sustain himself with blood of the Mother Namtaru. The story with Sandro clearly shows a weakness there, when he tries (but fails, thanks to the player's interference) to erase the Mother Namtaru from existence and from history. All Liches and Vampires start to die off all over the place.
That's a serious weakness exposed by Sandro right then and there. I can't imagine any intelligent being not taking countermeasures against such a single point of failure in their survival. Finding other means to sustain oneself in a future event that the Mother Namtaru is unavailable would seem a logical drive. Even if it means tapping into Void Magic energy, it doesn't mean they need to adopt the same philosophy as our good and dear Sandro.
This!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 30, 2015 10:52 AM |
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Steyn said:
My take on this whole lich-archlich discussion.
That might have been convincing were it not for the H6 Archlich Unit-description. Which reads:
Quote:
"An Archlich is given that title when he has continued “living” beyond what his or her physical shell would have normally permitted.
Though this passage might seem arbitrary, it is not, for a Lich feels the moment pass when death should have come.
As they journey beyond the sacred cycle of Life and Death, they gain comprehension of greater powers, some of which can be used to sap the life force of living creatures."
This suggests that this seemingly arbitrary point is a point of great of great revalation to the one undergoing it.
Now the point you make about study matters insofar as the person is involved. The fast-lane route to Archlichdom, as Stevie proposes, is only usefull when people use it who have magical skill to begin with. Otherwise you are right and it's just a quick way to be flensed
But as I tried to explain yesterday, the reason of why this is done has become entirely secondary. Because Marzhin has cast doubt on the moment of death and on if this is or is not pre-ordained.
Which, as opposed to what Chris suggests, is not a question of physics but one of theology. The question of free-wil versus predestination. Which in turn has implications on what the player is. Predestination would suggest that the Player is the hand of Fate, guiding things along their proper course. Whereas free will would suggest the player is the thought-process of the commander and the commands s/he issues.
Sleeping Sun & Maurice:
As I suggested pages ago the fact that the Necromancers have had threats agaist the Mother Namtaru in the past, would make them fools not to do something about that. Now what you do not tell, and what would be the simpler course of action, is why they have not opted of taking the Mother Namtaru and all other Namtaru to somewhere safe and secure their supply of Venom.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 11:10 AM |
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Ok so ... he's not good guy. But I remember him mostly as a Necro hero from H3. And Necro were evil back then. But now they are sort of good. How come he exists in Ashan aswell? Did he open interdimentional rift, that allowed him to pass from Erathia to Ashan?
Or was he rewritten because of being fan favourite? Because if he exists, and existed in Erathia, this means Erathia is cannon now 
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 30, 2015 11:17 AM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Ok so ... he's not good guy. But I remember him mostly as a Necro hero from H3. And Necro were evil back then. But now they are sort of good. How come he exists in Ashan aswell? Did he open interdimentional rift, that allowed him to pass from Erathia to Ashan?
Or was he rewritten because of being fan favourite? Because if he exists, and existed in Erathia, this means Erathia is cannon now
This is were we get to the term "LEGACY HERO"
Several Heroes in the M&M franchise have multiple incarnation in different world's. For Example we had atleast 3 Crag Hacks so far. These are usually fan favorite heroes. Like Sandro, Maximus etc.
Each incarnation is a character of it's own, and is not related to the former one, but they do share some personality traits. Like Crag being a freeminded adventurer, or Sandro being a power hungry but cunning villain
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted January 30, 2015 11:54 AM |
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War-overlord said:
Sleeping Sun & Maurice:
As I suggested pages ago the fact that the Necromancers have had threats agaist the Mother Namtaru in the past, would make them fools not to do something about that. Now what you do not tell, and what would be the simpler course of action, is why they have not opted of taking the Mother Namtaru and all other Namtaru to somewhere safe and secure their supply of Venom.
That doesn't take away the vulnerability. And as many Hollywood blockbusters have shown, you're not going to get away with that - the bad guys always find a way to circumvent the defenses put in place, wreaking havoc, putting the Hero(es) of the movie on the brink of defeat, from which they have to fight back .
No, better to remove the vulnerability to begin with. Or, at the very least, reduce its impact.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 30, 2015 11:56 AM |
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Maurice said:
Marzhin said:
But what do they have to gain from it? Unless being a Skeletal Lich grants you some extra power or advantage, but in Moander's case it didn't. If anything it might have ruined his chance to become a Vampire later on, since there's no flesh to rejuvenate anymore.
Just grabbing back to this statement, because I do see a clear advantage. In the current setting, a Lich needs to sustain himself with blood of the Mother Namtaru. The story with Sandro clearly shows a weakness there, when he tries (but fails, thanks to the player's interference) to erase the Mother Namtaru from existence and from history. All Liches and Vampires start to die off all over the place.
That's a serious weakness exposed by Sandro right then and there. I can't imagine any intelligent being not taking countermeasures against such a single point of failure in their survival. Finding other means to sustain oneself in a future event that the Mother Namtaru is unavailable would seem a logical drive. Even if it means tapping into Void Magic energy, it doesn't mean they need to adopt the same philosophy as our good and dear Sandro.
Plus, what is this nonsense about Liches turning into Vampires anyway?
____________
What will happen now?
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 30, 2015 12:02 PM |
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Ubisoft's need of special snowflakes
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 30, 2015 12:04 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Plus, what is this nonsense about Liches turning into Vampires anyway?
Have you been living under a rock since 2006, Alci? 
That has been canon since DMoMM.
Maurice said:
That doesn't take away the vulnerability. And as many Hollywood blockbusters have shown, you're not going to get away with that - the bad guys always find a way to circumvent the defenses put in place, wreaking havoc, putting the Hero(es) of the movie on the brink of defeat, from which they have to fight back .
No, better to remove the vulnerability to begin with. Or, at the very least, reduce its impact.
Following the same logic, the Good Guys(the Necromancers) find a way to save the plot-macguffin from certain doom, give te bad guy a good thrashing and get to kiss the girl, watching the sun set over a pretty landscape.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 12:15 PM |
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W8 ... Liches turn into Vampires? Not the other way around? I personaly think it's rubish anyway, but to me it would make more sense that Vampires turn into Liches.
I mean. Liches, skin on or off, still look way more decayed and old than Vampires, not to mention they are more powerfull with their black magics. Also Liches always were Tier 5 creatures, and Vampires were Tier 4 ... I know there's no more tiers, but psychological effect of them still remains.
Vampires may be knights of darkness etc, but Liches are generals and kings, leading undead from back ranks ... to me turning into Vampire suggests a downgrade
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 30, 2015 12:20 PM |
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War-overlord said:
alcibiades said:
Plus, what is this nonsense about Liches turning into Vampires anyway?
Have you been living under a rock since 2006, Alci?
That has been canon since DMoMM.
My point is not that I didn't know this. My point is: Why should THAT be an argument against changing liches back to being skeletal? Quite on the contrary, if we can get that idiotic part of the canon erased and at the same time get skeletal liches back, it's only a win/win situation.
____________
What will happen now?
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted January 30, 2015 12:20 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
I mean. Liches, skin on or off, still look way more decayed and old than Vampires...
As they grow in power, Liches may earn the right to be embraced by the Spider Goddess herself to die and be reborn as Akhkharus, or “Vampires”.They undergo an excruciating ritual but gain a rejuvenated body, cleansed from all defects.
That's why they look "untouched" by decay.
*EDIT
? If Lich dies to become Vampire doesn't it become Archlich and Vampire at the same time... This lore is so lame
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 30, 2015 12:26 PM |
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alcibiades said:
My point is not that I didn't know this. My point is: Why should THAT be an argument against changing liches back to being skeletal? Quite on the contrary, if we can get that idiotic part of the canon erased and at the same time get skeletal liches back, it's only a win/win situation.
It shouldn't. Even without changing this farfetched idea. Since not every Lich gets to become a Vampire, those who know they won't ever become a Vampire aren't daunted by the prospect of being unable to become a Vampire.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted January 30, 2015 12:30 PM |
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Skeletal Liches can become Vampires because of this:
Vampire wiki
...They undergo an excruciating ritual but gain a rejuvenated body, cleansed from all defects.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 30, 2015 12:44 PM |
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Dark:
Marzhin said:
But what do they have to gain from it? Unless being a Skeletal Lich grants you some extra power or advantage, but in Moander's case it didn't. If anything it might have ruined his chance to become a Vampire later on, since there's no flesh to rejuvenate anymore.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
