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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted January 30, 2015 01:49 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Point is, you're playing as them, even if they are evil, they are not the villain.
... so does that make us agree? I kinda lost track here 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 01:50 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Stevie: The power of the Vampire is that his body, eternally young and rejuvinating, is greatly enhanced to superhuman proportions by the magicall effects of having pure Namtaru venom run through it. If there is no body, there is nothing there to have that happen to.
Ornella.
And you do care about feeling and atmosphere. Or do you want me to quote you from the Sylvan vote thread? If you understand how it is to not have the Unicorn in Sylvan, the I think you can understand how it makes us feel to have these silly designs because of lore restrictions.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 30, 2015 01:51 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 13:52, 30 Jan 2015.
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Maurice said:
... so does that make us agree? I kinda lost track here
Keeping track is challenging my friend!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 30, 2015 01:51 PM |
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Maurice said:
... so does that make us agree? I kinda lost track here
No, it doesn't.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 30, 2015 01:52 PM |
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Fun part.
Why do people want a skeletal lich? Because they supposed to by skeletal?
Where is it written that they have to be? Or even better let's analyze the creature.
The origin of its name -> german languages from the word "Leiche" meaning "Dead Body" Not bone, not skeleton but "Body"
Mythological inspiration -> Slavic Koschei the undying (Themes of immortality, cheating death and hiding one's soul) who is rarely, or to be accurate almost never, depicted as a roting dead corpse. His appearance is human, maybe pale, but human with flesh.
So, only thanks to popular settings we are used to a skeletal lich, and there is no reason, other than following the mainstream, to depict him as such.
Even more, since there are so many mythological freaks here, they should praise a more accurate depiction of the myth.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 30, 2015 01:52 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Why do people want a skeletal lich? Because they supposed to by skeletal?
Because they look good. Simple as that.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 01:55 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 13:57, 30 Jan 2015.
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Dave_Jame said:
Fun part.
Why do people want a skeletal lich? Because they supposed to by skeletal?
Where is it written that they have to be? Or even better let's analyze the creature.
The origin of its name -> german languages from the word "Leiche" meaning "Dead Body" Not bone, not skeleton but "Body"
Mythological inspiration -> Slavic Koschei the undying (Themes of immortality, cheating death and hiding one's soul) who is rarely, or to be accurate almost never, depicted as a roting dead corpse. His appearance is human, maybe pale, but human with flesh.
So, only thanks to popular settings we are used to a skeletal lich, and there is no reason, other than following the mainstream, to depict him as such.
Even more, since there are so many mythological freaks here, they should praise a more accurate depiction of the myth.
The fact that you've gotten an entire franchise to mean that at some point, to then invent some convoluted and silly lore to get away from that when no one asked for it, is enough reason for me.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 30, 2015 01:57 PM |
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Stevie said:
Ornella.
And you do care about feeling and atmosphere. Or do you want me to quote you from the Sylvan vote thread? If you understand how it is to not have the Unicorn in Sylvan, the I think you can understand how it makes us feel to have these silly designs because of lore restrictions.
No, I don't care if the Lich is Skeletal or not. I never said that I don't care about atmosphere.
And that is exactly why I provide information.
Also, Ornella doesn't prove your case. She proves that the Lich state can be skipped. She does not prove that the Vampire ritual has effect on walking skeletons.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 30, 2015 01:57 PM |
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Imagine how much money they would save if they fire the story department, better graphics, no recycled models, interesting game-play features, maybe they could even introduce some kind of politic system, revolutions where you can attack your enemy that recently conquered your town in a special battlefield that would be inside the city walls, rpg elements added, more modding programs and capabilities, social tension systems, neat multiplayer support, most doesn't give a damn about lore and a game without lore would encourage us to build our own story and fantasy  As for campaign we just need some simple plot like faction X attacks faction Y or peasant becomes a king, 2 lines of text there and there, no need for expensive cutscenes
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 01:59 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Also, Ornella doesn't prove your case. She proves that the Lich state can be skipped. She does not prove that the Vampire ritual has effect on walking skeletons.
She also proves that there's no need for the Namtaru venom to become a Vampire. The only thing required is a ritual, everything else is relative.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 30, 2015 01:59 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 14:03, 30 Jan 2015.
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LizardWarrior said:
maybe they could even introduce some kind of politic system
Someone's been playing MoP 
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 30, 2015 02:00 PM |
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Galaad said:
Hear that Ubi? Even the lorehounds don't care much about aesthetics. And 90% of your fan base doesn't give two bulls about lore anyway. For some, Ashan and Enroth are only unknown words they see sometimes on the forums.
Skeletal Lich.
Non-emo Vampire.
Is it REALLY too much to ask??!
Come one. those people wouldn't give a damn either way. you are exactly what I wrote. A person who can't stand the idea of his love not meeting his expectations. You're just like typical blizzard cash cow. Sorry if it got to personal but saying people don't care works both ways.
And as for me. Like WO I don't care how this ends. I want good mechanics and solid basis to build on. I don't mind if one brick in the foundation is black and not orange, as long as the foundation is solid. And if you don't care about the lore, as you say. You should care as little as I do. or even more. Since I am one of those lore freaks, but still I don't care.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 30, 2015 02:00 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 14:02, 30 Jan 2015.
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@Pawek: Dude you don't know anything about their finances.
Dave_James said:
And as for me. Like WO I don't care how this ends. I want good mechanics and solid basis to build on. I don't mind if one brick in the foundation is black and not orange, as long as the foundation is solid. And if you don't care about the lore, as you say. You should care as little as I do. or even more. Since I am one of those lore freaks, but still I don't care.
So why are you speaking against the people who care?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 02:05 PM |
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 30, 2015 02:08 PM |
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Galaad said:
Because they look good. Simple as that.
That is a matter of taste, therefore an personal opinion and not a valid argument. Try better :-P
Quote:
The fact that you've gotten an entire franchise to mean that at some point, to then invent some convoluted and silly lore to get away from that when no one asked for it, is enough reason for me.
Oh... so since they own the name they can't chage a thing? Sorry boy this is not how it works. The OWN the thing. They can do whatever they wan with it. Heck If I owned it I could make it a Thundercats/my little pony crosover, AND YOU WOULDN'T be able to do heck, regardless of your love and childhood memories.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 30, 2015 02:09 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 14:10, 30 Jan 2015.
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Dave_Jame said:
That is a matter of taste, therefore an personal opinion and not a valid argument. Try better :-P
Dave_Jame said:
I don't care.
Galaad said:
So why are you speaking against the people who care?
Stevie said:
Because he somehow believes that not caring about unit designs is the superior thing to do. Fail.
Agree.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 02:14 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 14:16, 30 Jan 2015.
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Dave_Jame said:
Quote:
The fact that you've gotten an entire franchise to mean that at some point, to then invent some convoluted and silly lore to get away from that when no one asked for it, is enough reason for me.
Oh... so since they own the name they can't chage a thing? Sorry boy this is not how it works. The OWN the thing. They can do whatever they wan with it. Heck If I owned it I could make it a Thundercats/my little pony crosover, AND YOU WOULDN'T be able to do heck, regardless of your love and childhood memories.
Oh, sure! They can make the Giant Dung of Death a Stronghold champion. Then they'll want me to buy the game since they own it and I can't do anything to change it. Furthermore, they'll even pretend it's "Heroes".
Dude, lol.
As long as they target me as a potential buyer, and as long as they ask the community to participate in the development and send them feedback, and as long as I am a fan of the Heroes franchise, I will voice my opinion no matter what you or anyone else says. Period.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 30, 2015 02:19 PM |
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Stevie said:
She also proves that there's no need for the Namtaru venom to become a Vampire. The only thing required is a ritual, everything else is relative.
No, it doesn't.
The state of a Vampire is clearly defined. And that is to have undergone a ritual and they have no blood of their own anymore because it is replace with pure Namtaru Venom.
Even if the ritual Ornella undergoes, it is unclear what happens there anyway, magically turns her blood into Namtaru Venom, her being a Vampire afterwards makes that she adheres to the rules of a Vampire.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 30, 2015 02:20 PM |
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Galaad said:
So why are you speaking against the people who care?
Why, well think about it? For one, you lack respect to someones work. You dislike something and it's automaticly bad.
Two: You know, I want agood solid game, and people under stress make mistakes, errors, it takes them loger do things, which leads to more stress, then they get extra work, then there is a deadlie etc.
What you do Galaad, Stevie and Jeremiah, is you stress the devs, which has an impact on the developement. And you don't stress them with important things like random skills, or RMG, or even Sim-turns (a thing I never used), you know, things that actually make the game better, but with nonsense like "How does this doll Look" and "why is this creature of such or such gender".
This is what Marzhin ment when he expressed, that even if they would get extra funds to remake the models, he would rather see the used in a way that improves the game, rather then this.
When you'll make a stand for something that actually matters, I will support you. But until then, I don't understand why you do this. And at the same time you tolerate the bone dragon, whose "doll" has been used on 5 units already!!!!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 30, 2015 02:20 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Heck If I owned it I could make it a Thundercats/my little pony crosover
You'd have to procure the rights to use the Thundercats/MLP IPs first tho
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
