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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 30, 2015 03:02 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 15:05, 30 Jan 2015.
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Dave_Jame said:
But it is something that kills/saves it
Problem is bad decisions from the start. Complaints about Necropolis design in H6 has been very loud, and as far as I know also been reported by insiders. At this point the only explanation I see regarding Ubilimb's position on Necropolis is that they are firmly convinced that Spiderpolis is the genius revolutionary concept, lol.
So if you want to make profit, shouldn't it be obvious not to go full controversial about such a faction?
Retcons are always welcomed in my book if it can set things right. And in my order about priorities, unit designs is of most importance in a game. Not necessarily their technical quality, but their spirit. And I believe I am not the only one who thinks the spirit behind Necropolis revolves more around the Undead than the Spiders and whatever stuff they come up with Vampires being handsome etc.
Marzhin said:
Majora's Mask was recycling the graphics of Ocarina of Time.
Yes, but all was good in OoT. And you still needed that expansion thing to allow the N64 to run it.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted January 30, 2015 03:04 PM |
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Edited by Marzhin at 15:05, 30 Jan 2015.
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Avirosb said:
It was niche back in 1999 too but it's about time we had some real innovation in this franchise
So we shall go real-time then? 
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted January 30, 2015 03:05 PM |
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@Marzhin:
I know that reusing assets is common and I have nothing against it.  I guess that using "might" instead of "would" would me more proper in that situation. 
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted January 30, 2015 03:07 PM |
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Galaad said:
Marzhin said:
Majora's Mask was recycling the graphics of Ocarina of Time.
Yes, but all was good in OoT. And you still needed that expansion thing to allow the N64 to run it.
You must have forgotten the dreadful character design :eek:
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted January 30, 2015 03:08 PM |
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Marzhin said:
You know, it's not unusual for video games to reuse models between games, even games with AAA budgets (which Heroes is not, being a niche game).
the HoMM series never reused a creature or town graphic in a sequel until Ubisoft appeared dude, there are no mental gymnastics to get around that fact lol
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 30, 2015 03:09 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 15:11, 30 Jan 2015.
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Marzhin said:
You must have forgotten the dreadful character design :eek:
Of course not 
But OoT was the first Zelda in 3D. That franchise successfully passed the step from 2D to 3D nevertheless. Unlike homm, imo.
But anyway, your example is irrelevant. The Fairies weren't visited much, now, if Link had been screwed up, it would have been another story.
Verriker said:
the HoMM series never reused a creature or town graphic in a sequel until Ubisoft appeared dude, there are no mental gymnastics to get around that fact lol
Amen.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 03:09 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 15:12, 30 Jan 2015.
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War-overlord said:
Stevie said:
And you seem to only be interpreting the text that way. "Gaining a new rejuvenated body" means that something materializes, irrespective of something being there or not. It works both ways.
No it doesn't. If something new materializes, then rejuvination is entirely redundant in that sentence. Something that isn't there cannot become young again.
If they simply got a new body it would say that. If they got a new body, then Marzhin wouldn't have made the objection that being skeletons stops them from becoming Vampires.
LoL. So are you saying that the transition from a desiccated body to a rejuvenated body happens on Nothing being added to the equation? Muscles? Fluids? Carbohydrates and Proteins? New cells?! And those don't "materialize"? If matter in any shape or form is not added then there is no change, lol.
Marzhin said:
You know, it's not unusual for video games to reuse models between games, even games with AAA budgets (which Heroes is not, being a niche game). Quite the contrary actually. Here are a few recent and not-so-recent examples
Oh, yes, totally agree. When the models are good! Not the same ones that received complaints and rage before!
By the way, just a suggestion. Why don't you import ALL the visuals next time with the reason that you want to better invest the money in gameplay and mechanics and otherwise things that "matter"?
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 30, 2015 03:13 PM |
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Galaad said:
Problem is bad decisions from the start. Complaints about Necropolis design in H6 has been very loud, and as far as I know also been reported by insiders. At this point the only explanation I see regarding Ubilimb's position on Necropolis is that they are firmly convinced that Spiderpolis is the genius revolutionary concept, lol.
So if you want to make profit, shouldn't it be obvious not to go full controversial about such a faction?
Yes what you say is true. And This, for example, is why I purposed the solution of re-using the DM model for the Lich.
Your point may prove even more valid, when we will see Stronghold. If it is true, what Mazhin hinted, that stronghold is very different, and let's say only 3 of the 8 model will be reused, whit a Haven like approach, giving them a distinguishable feel, it will look even worse that necropolis was the only one, who suffered from this direct coping.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME
Marzhin has a point. It is thanks to these reused models that we get 6 factions, That we will have more content, variety, replayability. If this is the price, few bad lookin dolls, I for myself am willing to pay it. Don't you want more creatures, map objects, etc?
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supertommy
Known Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 03:13 PM |
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Marzhin said:
You know, it's not unusual for video games to reuse models between games
But you've managed to reuse the most awful creature designs in the history of video games.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 30, 2015 03:16 PM |
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verriker said:
the HoMM series never reused a creature or town graphic in a sequel until Ubisoft appeared dude, there are no mental gymnastics to get around that fact lol
True.. but the entire MaM series did. That is why you have the same water elemental in HIII, MMVII and MMVIII (want me to list more?, there is a lot of them)
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 30, 2015 03:18 PM |
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Stevie said:
LoL. So are you saying that the transition from a desiccated body to a rejuvenated body happens on Nothing being added to the equation? Muscles? Fluids? Carbohydrates and Proteins? New cells?! And those don't "materialize"? If matter in any shape or form is not added then there is no change, lol.
Do you know what dessicated means? It means that something is preserved by drying. Conventional Liches body is still entirely intact, only dried out into a mummified form. The only thing added is the magical fluid that is the Namtaru Venom which restores all dried out muscles and organs. The magical properties of the Venom then start aging those tissues backwards towards perfection. So no, nothing is added, other than magical fluid, just restored.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 30, 2015 03:18 PM |
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Can you make it an option in H7 to block certain factions/creatures from random maps, just to please those who don't think much of Neo-cropolis?
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted January 30, 2015 03:21 PM |
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Stevie said:
Why don't you import ALL the visuals next time with the reason that you want to better invest the money in gameplay and mechanics and otherwise things that "matter"?
Because it would not always make sense to do so. H7 does not take place in the same era as H6. Some factions are different, others are new.
Necropolis is the faction for which it actually makes sense that they would look mostly the same, being Undead and eternal.
It's a question of finding a balance between the old and the new. Game development is all about compromise.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 30, 2015 03:21 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 15:23, 30 Jan 2015.
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Marzhin said:
Necropolis is the faction for which it actually makes sense that they would look mostly the same
Not for the love of Necropolis it doesn't.
H6 units designs for that town are plain awful. Would be like having Link looking ridiculous in a Zelda game.
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Hex
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 03:22 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Galaad said:
Problem is bad decisions from the start. Complaints about Necropolis design in H6 has been very loud, and as far as I know also been reported by insiders. At this point the only explanation I see regarding Ubilimb's position on Necropolis is that they are firmly convinced that Spiderpolis is the genius revolutionary concept, lol.
So if you want to make profit, shouldn't it be obvious not to go full controversial about such a faction?
BUT AT THE SAME TIME
Marzhin has a point. It is thanks to these reused models that we get 6 factions, That we will have more content, variety, replayability. If this is the price, few bad lookin dolls, I for myself am willing to pay it. Don't you want more creatures, map objects, etc?
I have another solution - stretch the budget and there will be enough money for everything.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted January 30, 2015 03:22 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
True.. but the entire MaM series did. That is why you have the same water elemental in HIII, MMVII and MMVIII (want me to list more?, there is a lot of them)
which is why you'll notice I never complained about MMX being basically nothing but reused character models lol, Heroes brings different expectations
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 30, 2015 03:23 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 15:25, 30 Jan 2015.
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Forgive my ignorance, wasn't into H6 at all, but shouldn't Anastasya* look like a toddler by now? If she's a vampire, I mean?
*Edited for accuracy
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 30, 2015 03:26 PM |
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Avirosb said:
Forgive my ignorance, wasn't into H6 at all, but shouldn't Sweatlana look like a toddler by now? If she's a vampire, I mean?
That's not Svetlana.
And no, Vampires age backwards to the point of perfection. Which is somewhere in your early twenties, apparantly. Given the fact that Anastasya was killed before that, she ages to the nearest of that, her late teens, which is when she was killed.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 03:28 PM |
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@Marzhin:
That is true, but ...
In the past age there was quite a bit diference in unit styles and looks in heroes games, mostly between H2 to H3 to H4 to H5 to H6 transitions. I would say I personaly am "used" that big changes occur between games. This is mostly psychological, however it is important to note. There has not been so striking similarity between two games since ... well since H1 to H2 transition.
In 2D graphics we have sprites. And reusing the same sprite, but redecorating it and changing it's animation a bit, tends to get noticed less than with 3D models.
With games like Mass Effect etc ... well it's quite understandable they use same models, since it's story featuring same characters. And in FPS games well ... you need only a few "human type" models to make most enemies in game.
I would also argue that games in todays time are quite stale. I mean it's noticable in this series. Changes between H2 and H3 were large. There was then another large leap between H4 and from that into full on 3D with H5. H6 provided entierly diferent style again. I would say a lot of people were hoping (and are still hoping) for completly diferent stlyle.
Now, I understand. And I agree. Specialy coz H7 is being released quite quickly after H6. And I kinda suspect main reason of this was because H6 didn't reach expectations, and people would like new game to wash away some bad taste, a few might have ... If, on the other hand, H7 would wait untill 2018 or 2020 even ...
Well I think this would be better, but ofc, maybe for development company not so much.
I'm ok for now. But H8 better be next generation of HoMM. Even if it takes 10 years to develop. Or I suspect people will be pretty mad 
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted January 30, 2015 03:29 PM |
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I have no problems with mummified liches or that they are reusing assets from HVI. I have problem with poor textures on that screenshot and with using what looks as monochromatic palette. I really don't care if they are skeletal or not.
I have a problem with lore when it makes unneeded obstacles and when its not solid.
Regarding Liches for 100th time:
Is only requirement for Lich to become Archlich for its time to pass?
Is it some set amount of time that cannot be influenced?
If it is when that time is set? At birth? Can a person die before that time runs out? Does that mean that a person cannot succeed in suicide before his time is up no matter what? Does that mean that Liches who die in combat are meant to die on that day and become Archliches?
If it can be influenced why Liches don't commit suicide as soon as they can in order to achieve Archlich powers immediately?
Marzhin please explain in little more detail what takes Lich to become Archlich and if there is such thing as destiny in Ashan universe?
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
