|
|
Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
|
posted January 30, 2015 12:57 PM |
|
|
|
Question: What are the Elves (whom I assume does not age or are otherwise long-lived) and Necromancers opinions of one another?
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 12:58 PM |
|
|
War-overlord said:
It shouldn't. Even without changing this farfetched idea. Since not every Lich gets to become a Vampire, those who know they won't ever become a Vampire aren't daunted by the prospect of being unable to become a Vampire.
Exactly. Plus, like Zombie-wizard pointed out, the whole idea of Liches turning into Vampires seems completely counter-intuitive because both in Heroes history as well as in general fantasy settings, Liches are normally considered more powerful than Vampires, not the other way around.
War-overlord said:
Dark:
Marzhin said:
But what do they have to gain from it? Unless being a Skeletal Lich grants you some extra power or advantage, but in Moander's case it didn't. If anything it might have ruined his chance to become a Vampire later on, since there's no flesh to rejuvenate anymore.
Yeah, but seriously, this description of "rejuvenation" is sufficiantly vague so that even if they wanted to keep that particularly obnoxious bit of lore, the fact that the flesh would need to be somehow magically recreated would still be among the least far-fetched part of this lore ...
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:04 PM |
|
|
Omg. I just woke up and I already need an aspirin. 
dark-whisperer said:
Zombi_Wizzard said:
I mean. Liches, skin on or off, still look way more decayed and old than Vampires...
As they grow in power, Liches may earn the right to be embraced by the Spider Goddess herself to die and be reborn as Akhkharus, or “Vampires”.They undergo an excruciating ritual but gain a rejuvenated body, cleansed from all defects.
That's why they look "untouched" by decay.
*EDIT
? If Lich dies to become Vampire doesn't it become Archlich and Vampire at the same time... This lore is so lame
It's interesting how there is no mention of Liches drinking the "life prolonging elixir milked from the venom of the Namtarus" becoming dead/undead. If anything, the fact that they are still aging and have to die to become vampires indicates that they are very much alive, lmao.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:06 PM |
|
|
Avirosb said:
Question: What are the Elves (whom I assume does not age or are otherwise long-lived) and Necromancers opinions of one another?
Elves consider Necromancer people who contradict themselves and are to be resisted, especially since their presence suck the life, which Elves hold especially dear, out of everything. Elves will therefor as a rule be hostile to Necromancers. With the possible exception to pro-life Healer Necromancers like Kaspar.
Necromancers care little about Elves. Necromancers think that they are inevitable and the effort to resist them will prove futile.
Alci: As counter-intuďtive as these rules are, we are stuck with them until the Universe is reset. Which will not happen in the forseeable future. The earliest we'll get to see that is Heroes 8, if the creators are willing.
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:09 PM |
|
|
Quote:
The earliest we'll get to see that is Heroes 8, if the creators are willing.
But no, H8 will be a prequel to H6 where Duke Borington of Doge Duchy will be the protagonist 
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:10 PM |
|
|
I am seriously thinking of resurrecting the Sandro revolt.
____________
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:14 PM |
|
|
@WO, I don't see the connection between what the text says and what Marzhin claims to begin with. We don't see any prerequisite like having flesh to undergo the ritual, all it says is that you "gain a rejuvenated body" which is conceivable to happen even while being skeletal.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:20 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
@WO, I don't see the connection between what the text says and what Marzhin claims to begin with. We don't see any prerequisite like having flesh to undergo the ritual, all it says is that you "gain a rejuvenated body" which is conceivable to happen even while being skeletal.
It's very simple. The Vampire-ritual doesn't regrow the flesh.
|
|
Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:29 PM |
|
|
War-overlord said:
Following the same logic, the Good Guys(the Necromancers) find a way to save the plot-macguffin from certain doom, give te bad guy a good thrashing and get to kiss the girl, watching the sun set over a pretty landscape.
And? They are the good guys in H6 after all, so I don't see your point here. 
Ok, let me put it in another way then:
Stage: on board the Death Star, as it is circling around the gas giant Yavin, moments before its moon Yavin IV comes within firing range:
Commander: We've analyzed their attack, sir, and there is a danger. Should I have your ship standing by?
Governor Tarkin: Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances.
We all know how that worked out.
Or better said, do we need the "villain" (which is a doubtful term regarding Necropolis in the latest Heroes installment) to have a mechanical weakness which they fail to cover, even if they know about it, so the good guys can win?
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:29 PM |
|
|
|
Well, they could even modify the h5 model if they use "not enough money" argument and it would have been better, we know that h6 and h7 use different engines already, so why not import them form H5? A higher res texture and I think (yet I'm not sure) there were enough polygons for a quality models (when using lots of polygons, I mean 1000+ or 10000+, the differences ain't that big even if you increase them by thousands)
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:31 PM |
|
|
War-overlord said:
Stevie said:
@WO, I don't see the connection between what the text says and what Marzhin claims to begin with. We don't see any prerequisite like having flesh to undergo the ritual, all it says is that you "gain a rejuvenated body" which is conceivable to happen even while being skeletal.
It's very simple. The Vampire-ritual doesn't regrow the flesh.
That's the thing, it CAN mean that it regrows flesh, there's no need restrict its meaning to represent an infusion of proteins.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:32 PM |
|
|
Maurice said:
Or better said, do we need the "villain" (which is a doubtful term regarding Necropolis in the latest Heroes installment) to have a mechanical weakness which they fail to cover, even if they know about it, so the good guys can win?
Point is, you're playing as them, even if they are evil, they are not the villain.
|
|
Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:34 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
@WO, I don't see the connection between what the text says and what Marzhin claims to begin with. We don't see any prerequisite like having flesh to undergo the ritual, all it says is that you "gain a rejuvenated body" which is conceivable to happen even while being skeletal.
I don't see the point of this entire discussion to be honest. All this for aesthetics? To force ones opinion over those of other people? You are all just twisting somebody's made up fantasies for your own desires to come true. Digging deep into someones trash just to find an argument for the sake of proving your personal point. Making "rules" based on "exemptions". Forcing general stereotypes where some tried to make things different.
Which is somewhat twisted, since exceptions are what creates a unique character. Of every character was like Sandro or Moander, they wouldn't be so special.
It is fine to stand behind the things you want, but this is not a discussion anymore. This is a Nerd Slapdown where each is quoting their "Bible".
How about this. Let those who own the toy make-up the stories, It's theirs, and nobody forces anybody to play with it :-).
And don't even try to say that you want to improve the game. The game won't improve with the change of one or two models and a lines of flavor text. It will improve with better mechanics, balance and a well written story. And 2 random dolls won't change that.
|
|
Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:37 PM |
|
|
|
@W-O, much obliged. I have to side with the elves on this one, as much as I don't like their appearance.
|
|
War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:41 PM |
|
|
Dave: I'm not taking sides in this discussion, I'm just providing information. I realy do not care one way or another.
Stevie: The power of the Vampire is that his body, eternally young and rejuvinating, is greatly enhanced to superhuman proportions by the magicall effects of having pure Namtaru venom run through it. If there is no body, there is nothing there to have that happen to.
|
|
Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:41 PM |
|
|
Galaad said:
I am seriously thinking of resurrecting the Sandro revolt.
No, please, Galaad, be merciful! At least this discussion has some merit and ranting about Voidopolis would make matterseven worse. Assume that M&M team agrees on Voidopolis but Ubisoft wouldn't give them any more money because they have really strict budget. Moreover, why should they? This franchise won't give them much profit, so no new money won't be given. This would mean that something would have to be cut out from the game in order to provide people with it and we don't want this to happen, do we? If you really want Voidopolis, wait for the game to be released. Although I have limited trust in them, I believe that their promise of modable game is very plausible, since they use UE3 and it's very hard to screw its modding features. So, if you won't like Necro that much, just wait for mods to come out (Lizzard_Warrior, I am looking at you) and everyone will be happy. 
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:42 PM |
|
Edited by Galaad at 13:53, 30 Jan 2015.
|
So much for consistency in Ashan lmao
Fix the freaking designs first, adjust the lore later.
ffs
@Pawek: If you think the fight is useless before you even start the battle, you already lost.
____________
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:43 PM |
|
Edited by Stevie at 13:45, 30 Jan 2015.
|
Dave_Jame said:
Stevie said:
@WO, I don't see the connection between what the text says and what Marzhin claims to begin with. We don't see any prerequisite like having flesh to undergo the ritual, all it says is that you "gain a rejuvenated body" which is conceivable to happen even while being skeletal.
I don't see the point of this entire discussion to be honest. All this for aesthetics? To force ones opinion over that of other people? You are all just twisting somebody's made up fantasies for your own desires to come true. Digging deep into someones trash just to find an argument for the sake of proving your personal point. Making "rules" based on "exemptions". Forcing general stereotypes where some tried to make things different.
Which is somewhat twisted, since exceptions are what creates a unique character. Of every character was like Sandro or Moander, they wouldn't be so special.
It is fine to stand behind the things you want, but this is not a discussion anymore. This is a Nerd Slapdown where each is quoting the "Bible"
How about this. Let those who own the toy make-up the stories, It's his, and nobody forces anybody to play with it :-).
And don't even try to say that you want to improve the game. The game won't improve with the change of one or two models and a lines of flavor text. It will improve with better mechanics, balance and a well written story. And 2 random dolls won't change that.
Aesthetics -> Atmosphere -> Heroes.
If you want mechanics and balance, why are you playing "Heroes" and not anything else? Any game has those. What separates the game from other titles is the Universe, and that universe can appeal to many tastes and is done so through atmosphere. Atmosphere includes first and foremost visuals, then music and then story. And I very much care about those cuz those make Heroes "Heroes".
Fact is, the universe took a turn for the worst when Ubi acquired the rights and introduced Ashan. And that brought this silly and restrictive lore that goes in the way of development of the Heroes atmosphere. Lich and Vampire are just a tiny drop in a sea of stupid design decisions.
So don't think you have the "moral" ground because I care and you don't.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:49 PM |
|
Edited by Galaad at 13:50, 30 Jan 2015.
|
War-overlord said:
Dave: I'm not taking sides in this discussion, I'm just providing information. I really do not care one way or another.
Hear that Ubi? Even the lorehounds don't care much about aesthetics. And 90% of your fan base doesn't give two bulls about lore anyway. For some, Ashan and Enroth are only unknown words they see sometimes on the forums.
Skeletal Lich.
Non-emo Vampire.
Is it REALLY too much to ask??!
____________
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted January 30, 2015 01:49 PM |
|
|
Quote:
So, if you won't like Necro that much, just wait for mods to come out (Lizzard_Warrior, I am looking at you)
How will I mod a game that I won't even buy?
|
|
|
|
This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
