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JotunLogi
Known Hero
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posted February 20, 2015 03:38 PM |
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I find stuf of disruption (lich ability) as passive- what is the difference between in and piercing shot of crossbowman in terms of game mechanics?
I have nth against passive abiliteis if they give new options, change the game like some immunities, stuns and so- there are plenty of them that could vary th game in decent way. Of course spellcasting and soem active abilities are well welcomed but the lack of them is nto what is worrying me.
That thing are auras. If they are not somehow area of effect, than the are boring- it is like having artifact or castng mass spell at the beginning of the game- no thinking, not proper use of our current means. Nth. And I see that auras are overused. I understand some of them and even apprieciate- but their number is already too high. They affect the gameplay but not the fun.
And about Erwan- I thnik that he is not bad at all. Ashan is not bad, some new ideas must be implemented, some new things added. Soemtimes are otal mistake, sometiems not. M&M:Heroes 6 was distaster mainly due to technical problems- overall it was decent game, 6-7/10. for Heroes game it is low but there were many nice things that I reallly liked. The problem is that there were also bad ideas and as effect of that almost all new thnigs added are being cut out.
I do not know who is responsible for general project- for each thing should be judged each person. Of course, manager is somehow responsible for everyone but do not exxagarate that causetherre are plenty other things he has to have on his mind.
I could blamde major managers and personel for realeasing M&M: Heroes 6 not polished and too early a bit lazy DLC with just few missions and poor quantity of scenarios. At the same time Ashan evolves, all M&M franchise floorishes (although the core of it are Heroes that are worse than the rest), the story is good, thre are plenty of good desings and ideas... not to mention that the franchise has bright future and Ubi was involved in creation of HoMM 5. Also we have to keep in mind that Ubi and their members interact with us, discuss and allow us to judge the game, take part in its production and shape. It is a huge step and great idea which should evolve
Overall I give Ubi and Erwan around 7+, maybe 8/10- M&M: Heroes 6 was disaster but other things I find as + and hope for better
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 20, 2015 03:39 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 15:40, 20 Feb 2015.
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kiryu133 said:
anyway, less active abilities does not necessarily mean less options
This is not logical, I can't get behind it. The less abilities, the less options you have. Decision making (depth) is directly proportional with the number of options you are given.
kiryu133 said:
you used it whenever it was available and didn't when it wasn't. there's no choice there and the same can be applied to most of the creature abilities.
This I agree with. But this is a different problem, not of depth necessarily. It's the kind of problem where even in a plethora of decisions to make there is always a no-brainer one. That's what I would call streamlining decision making, where decisions stop being decisions because they become no-brainers.
Anyway, I think this is a rather complex issue, we would probably need another thread altogether just for this.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 20, 2015 03:43 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Quote:
- There will be 7 creatures in a player's army. The player will have to choose between the 2 champions of his faction
You forgot to mention that each creature can be upgraded once. That's quite unimportant, though, and doesn't say anything about either gameplay orcreature quality - it just says that we have HoMM 3, Basic HoMM 5 and HoMM 6 system, but can pick between champions (which I don't see any gameplay value in, sorry)
But you surely must agree, that if there would be 5 creatures in army or 10 creatures in army, or more slots than creatures, then things would be diferent. The information isn't spectacular, but it confirms no diference.
JollyJoker said:
Quote:
- No more city conversions
So? That something is MISSING, doesn't say anything about gameplay either. Vonversion isn't something you MUST use - nor would it have to be the way it was in HoMM 6 - it might, for example, simply take a week, in which the town would be unusable...
Actualy it has quite big impact on gameplay and town management. It implies there will be more secondary heroes with other faction's armies walking about, and less focus on single doomstack (even tho this will still be present).
JollyJoker said:
I hate Caravans, actually. Also, it's got nothing to do with how the game plays.
If it has nothing to do with how game plays, why do you hate caravans? Exactly, because it does imact how game plays. It impacts recruitment and army management. Ofc it is fair to say, it's not clear how they will work at release, but you can atleast be assured, there's no global recruitment present anymore.
JollyJoker said:
Quote:
- Ballista, Healing Tent and Catapult are back (no mention of the Ammo Cart though)
Yeah, well, but how do they PLAY? What do they DO? Can they be destroyed?
What do they do ... this is a mystery... At this early stage it's anyone's guess realy. My theory is that Healing tent is used to attract enemy female (or male if you have female hero) creatures to it, so they can be used as harem for your hero. As for catapult, who knows? Is it some device to scare enemy horses? It could very well be it ... I do wonder tho, what kind of devices will we use to break enemy walls ... Truly a mystery.
JollyJoker said:
Quote:
- Skillwheel is back !
Yeah, well, but it can't have the same meaning as in HoMM 5, can it? Remember, in HoMM 5 there was ONE hero per faction; in HoMM 7 we have SIX. And we know - you forgot to mention - that we also get the old primary skills back: so how different will the 6 heroes of a faction be in terms of primary skills? And what does it mean, when they say that "Hero X excels in Racial, Skill, Skill"? Excel? IN WHICH WAY? HOW?
I agree. Skillwheel itself dosen't tell us much untill we get more info. But it will be there. And so will be option to have random skills. Which does say about replayability a bit. Otherwise, why bother with this, if it dosen't matter?
JollyJoker said:
Quote:
- A lot more obstacles on the battle maps
If that's so - I don't know whether it is so - you can tell that it's bad for gameplay: Big Walkers? Dead weight!
Bad or good, it is information regarding gameplay. We don't know how it will play out sure, but ... well it does suggest you'll have to watch for how many 4x4 creatures you have in army. It does tie in with unconvertible towns nicely also, as you will hamper yourself if recruiting only 4x4 elite creatures from all diferent factions. Considering most elite and champion cratures (judging from past games by Ubi) with high Hp will be big ... you get the idea.
JollyJoker said:
Quote:
- Flanking attacks (look for details on blog)
Unless we know any specifics, I'm quite sceptical about this.
Skeptical in what way? You're not sure they will include it in game? Sure they might not, they stated it's only experiment. But if the do include it, it is information about gameplay. Specificaly battles.
JollyJoker said:
Quote:
- the sector control system with its forts as in H6 will return
Since it didn't work too well in 6, you'd really hope things will turn out better this time, but we actually don't know, do we?
We don't know if it will be better than in H6, but you can have a prety good idea how they work from H6. If you don't like it it's another issue. Noone is saying it's good or bad, all he's saying is it's something we know ... about gameplay. We also know we'll be able to destroy forts and rebuid them to destroy one control sector temporary ...
JollyJoker said:
We know nothing.
We don't know everything, but we do know something. For more info we'll have to wait, as most information they give us atm is visual sure. But we do know something. We also know lineups for 5 out of 6 factions, and for 3 factions we actualy know abilities for each creature. This says a lot. Stats and numbers are not available sure ... but you can quite easy get general idea how things will work out.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted February 20, 2015 03:48 PM |
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Well, I know something about game mechanics and gameplay. We all do. We didn't actually play it to know everything there is to know, but to say we know nothing, or that we "are in the dark" is plain lie.
We have multitudes of information, in fact much more then anytime before. What do you want to know that was left untouched or unrevealed? What information will make you say we now know something?
It seams that these days its much more popular to find little something and blow it massively out of proportion here or on the blog just to pour a little bile.
We know NOTHING about this game. Yea, right.
*EDIT*
Its funny how I posted two positive sentences on fan forum about upcoming game and few well known bile spitters reacted immediately. 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 20, 2015 03:53 PM |
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Well we sure know SOMETHING:
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted February 20, 2015 03:56 PM |
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But what if Erwan is actually a spider in disguise? 
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted February 20, 2015 03:58 PM |
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how many Erwins can dance on the head of a pin?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 20, 2015 04:00 PM |
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Ok. I change my statement to: we know nothing RELEVANT. At least *I* don't. If you think you do, fine, that's good for you. But enough for a general judgement? Come on.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 20, 2015 04:02 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
*EDIT*
Its funny how I posted two positive sentences on fan forum about upcoming game and few well known bile spitters reacted immediately.
Oh come on, it's not like that. It's just that, as I mentioned, apart from some general lines we don't know much. We can't quantify for example how 7 resources play in the economy, how 7 magic schools affects the magic system, how the flanking mechanic influences the tide of battles - and these are all elements which we know that are present but we don't know how they impact gameplay.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted February 20, 2015 04:05 PM |
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Well why don't you make a list of relevant and unanswered questions? Something that will blow away mist that conceals development of this game.
*EDIT*
@Stevie
How do you think we can know that except by actually playing game? At this point in development we know far more than any time before. In fact this relationship between developers and community is one of the best I have ever witnessed.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 20, 2015 04:15 PM |
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What JJ wants to say, is, that we have a list of features, but do not know how they work with each other or in general.
I'll try to make two examples.
One is The mage guild and the number of spell schools. We know that mage guilds will be in the game, and that they will have 4 levels. But this is a feature not a mechanic. At the same time we know that there are 7 schools, but that also doesn't tell us anything about spells or how we can learn them. The crucial information for us was when they told us, that each faction's mage guild is garanteed to have one spell of their prefered school in each level, and that there is a grarantee that spells from disfavored/oposite schools will never be found in mage guilds of a faction. (Example Orc will never have Prime, Necromancers wil never have light)
The combinations of two features (Spellschool and Mage guilds), and how they work together, gave us the information about a game mechanic (how are spells distributed in mage guilds).
Similary. For example we know there is a 30 levels level cap. But does this tell us anything about the leveling system, about how skilles are aquired or how does leveling work? No, we know a fact, a feature, 30 levels.
If I would now tell you that to get to level 30 you need 10 000 000 exp. would this help? No, since you don't have an idea if the level curve is linear or progresive, or how are expperiences distributed.
So what if I showed you a progresve curve, and told you that Core units give 5, Elite 25 and Champions 100 exp., would this help? Actually yes, but not enought yet, since we don't know how the units are distributed in the game, what is their population, how many are there on the map at the begining of the game and how fast do neutral stacks grow.
Only when we are provided whit all the information we need (Max level, leveling curve, expy ditributon, exp accesability) we can get an idea how the mechanics of leveling up work. And also all the things related to it, like abilities, hero attributes etc..
Right now we are beeing given a lot of content and informed about features, but mechanics are things that we have a rather low number of.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 20, 2015 04:17 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
How do you think we can know that except by actually playing game? At this point in development we know far more than any time before. In fact this relationship between developers and community is one of the best I have ever witnessed.
Fair point.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted February 20, 2015 04:21 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Only when we are provided whit all the information we need (Max level, leveling curve, expy ditributon, exp accesability) we can get an idea how the mechanics of leveling up work. And also all the things related to it. Like abilities, hero attributes etc.
First, I think they are still working on some of the mechanics so it would be totally unprofessional of them to give exact numbers when those mechanics can be changed. Second, who the f@ck expects to get excel sheet of distribution, curve, accessibility of the experience so he can understand leveling in upcoming game?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 20, 2015 04:34 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
First, I think they are still working on some of the mechanics so it would be totally unprofessional of them to give exact numbers when those mechanics can be changed. Second, who the f@ck expects to get excel sheet of distribution, curve, accessibility of the experience so he can understand leveling in upcoming game?
1: I'm not saing it is needed.
2: I was only trying to explain somebodies opinion, which was in my eyes missunderstood.
3: Some people actually do. We got the Exp. progression table back in H6's developement, and after that game, I personally would like to have a look into the games economy, population mechanics, town develpement and some other ones. They might still be workin on these, but that was JJ's point. We have a list of features and a small look at some of the content, but we have rather few informations about the mechanics of the game.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 20, 2015 04:38 PM |
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Dave does a good amot of explanation these last pages. 
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 20, 2015 04:40 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Dave does a good amot of explanation these last pages.
I just hope I've done it in the correct way, and managed to capture your opinion.
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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 20, 2015 04:42 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Dave does a good amot of explanation these last pages.
hehe yes and he is really good at it too 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 20, 2015 04:45 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 16:45, 20 Feb 2015.
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ThatRedSarah said:
JollyJoker said:
Dave does a good amot of explanation these last pages.
hehe yes and he is really good at it too
I agree, although the only downside is that he seems to actually like Ashan. 
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted February 20, 2015 05:02 PM |
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Galaad said:
I agree, although the only downside is that he seems to actually like Ashan.
Is this a downside? 
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 20, 2015 05:09 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 17:11, 20 Feb 2015.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
