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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 21, 2015 08:31 AM |
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Slab of salt......
I actually had to google that and this is what i found:
What is it doing in the grill like that? Beyond me...
Its like block of frozen salmon, which makes it actually quite interesting and pretty disgusting at the same time 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted February 21, 2015 08:36 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 08:36, 21 Feb 2015.
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I believe that image pretty much sums up the fora.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 21, 2015 08:53 AM |
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Sandro400 said:
Galaad said:
I agree, although the only downside is that he seems to actually like Ashan. 
Is this a downside? 
I'd say is one of the Deadly Sins a Heroes gamer can have. 
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted February 21, 2015 09:25 AM |
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dark-whisperer said:
3) Are we talking about vanilla game or COMPLETE edition on GOG? How many stars would vanilla H3 ROE get on GOG? 2? Or maybe 3?
I'd swear Heroes 3: RoE was well received back in the day
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 21, 2015 09:32 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 09:38, 21 Feb 2015.
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Storm-Giant said:
I'd swear Heroes 3: RoE was well received back in the day
Of course it was.
Rated 9/10 overall by both IGN staff and the community back in the days.
Quote:
Heroes III doing really do anything radically different than its predecessors. The number of town types, magic items, heroes, monsters and the like have all been increased, in some cases doubled, but the core game mechanic is pretty much the same. Battlefields are bigger, but combat is essentially unchanged. The graphics are sharper, the maps are bigger--but basically any element of the previous game have only been expanded and refined, not revised. There are a few new touches--underground maps, better AI--but there aren't any major surprises. But in the case of Heroes of Might & Magic, more of the same isn't a bad thing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
by IGN Staff
March 29, 1999
Saying only SoD made it great is complete bull.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2015 10:03 AM |
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The main problem is map and mod compatibility - and the missing rmg.
Artifact Sets, the Conflux, some slightly changed stats, space bar visits, Hags being able to strike-and-not-return, and all those campaigns (with adjustable campaign difficulty) ... all nice and well, but the main problem here is the fact that for one thing the map editor got seriously boosted, first for AB and even more so for SoD - and of course the RMG was added.
Basically every single thing that made sure HoMM 3 is still not only played but DEVELOPED by the fan community is based on those two things, the SoD map editor and the rmg (for continuing MP experience).
RoE re-release in HD basically means that the game is incompatible with all this. Think about how different things would look, if it WAS compatible: you could install Era and everything done by the community...
But as it is ... the problem isn't that RoE is a bad game or anything. The problem is simply the question why you should give up on 15 years of community development (and 90% of all mapy made), for reworked visuals that are hardly stunning in the first place.
And it's not that Ubisoft didn't know this.
The bottom line is, that this is mainly a game for smartphones and tablets - and Ubisoft would have to be a lot dumber than they possibly can be not to realize that. THAT is what this game is aiming for, but of course, if copies can be sold for PC as well, great.
And who knows, if they make a solid buck from it, maybe they continue; it's not like the market for smartphones and tablets will suddenly disappear.
As a last word from my side - as a PC GAMER I'm loathe of this half-assed release. However, seeing the whole picture, for people who like a good game on Smartphone or Handy - congrats! Even as RoE it's worth every penny and you'll have a hard time finding a better game to play for your money. If you stop seeing it as a HD re-release for PC and start looking at it as a port to smartphone and Tablet it starts making sense.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 21, 2015 10:07 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
But as it is ... the problem isn't that RoE is a bad game or anything. The problem is simply the question why you should give up on 15 years of community development (and 90% of all mapy made), for reworked visuals that are hardly stunning in the first place.
And it's not that Ubisoft didn't know this.
This.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted February 21, 2015 10:44 AM |
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 21, 2015 10:50 AM |
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Yep, but one should alwys keep in mind even H6 recived favourable reviews: IGN (8.0), Gamespot (8.0), Metacritic (77)...
And I would say it's true. It's not a bad game per se. It just seem to us this way, because we're comparing it to previous games (H3) which was superior in lot of ways. To someone new, who dosen't own any previous game, H6 would seem quite good, afterall, base gameplay is very similar than old games, and would feel fresh and interasting to newcomer. But If you own several previous titles, then it's legit question to ask: Why would I buy (and spend 50$) to play H6 (or indeed H7), if I could be playing H3, H5, H4 ... ? What makes it worth it? Is small improvements in graphics enough to justify the price? If game dosen't improve much, then why should I bother?
To me personaly H6 was 50$ wasted. It was because of the fact, that (despite shiny graphics) didn't bring anything worth playing on the table. I still much rather play H5. Not to mention I have Nvidia graphics card, and game just simply dosen't work on my PC, unless I revert to older drivers, which to me is inexcusable. I do not own PC just solely to play HoMM 6 ... Now it has been long time since I uninstalled this game, and I don't know if they fixed the issue in mean time, and I do not even care anymore.
Now tell me, how much of a score would you give a title, which costed you 50$, and then you have no desire to play it? I immagine it would be pretty low. Was H3 perfect game? Not by any means, but I must say from a personal standpoint, I sure did get my money's worth. I still play it sometimes. And that is 15 years after. I stoped playing H6 a few months after it's release (just at the patch, where it stoped working for Nvidia users).
Now this is my personal view point. But to me it's quite clear why H3 is consedered superior game to anything that Ubi did and is currently doing. Don't get me wrong. I realy like some decisions H7 is taking, and I will buy it ... but I'll wait till Steam discount. I ain't Ubi's free beta tester
EDIT: Again, why would I bother with the new game if I can just play the old one? Which has more content to boot? The reviews from these sites are taken with assumption of new player. They are trying to be objective, and take the game by itself (like it's standalone), and not counting that any of them came previously. It's a reason why mostly new people give newer games good scores, while old fans give them low scores.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 21, 2015 10:54 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 10:59, 21 Feb 2015.
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Anyway Heroes III is still heavily played and modded fifteen years later while Heroes VI is already dead.
This tells everything, really.
And since people tend to easily forget about this I will as well paste it here.
Quote:
An anonymous person operating under the rather flamboyant username of Derpson, who claims to be an employee of Black Hole Entertainment, has submitted his/her own very acrimonious account of Heroes VI's rocky development at HC, which - among many other things - states that Black Hole is no longer working with Ubisoft and is facing its end. The original post as of now has been deleted by its own creator without any explanation, but it is still fully preserved in adriancat's quote.
I'll paste the original post here and highlight some interesting things:
"Hi Guys. Several months have passed since the release of Heroes 6, and because there are so many questions from you regarding BH which UBI seemingly ignores, I feel it's time that I give you some information.
I worked for Black Hole during the whole H6 development. For us, it was a dream project as we were real fans of the Heroes series, having played it since the original King's Bounty on Commodore 64. And I can tell you it was the UBI producers who didn't keep their deadlines, and that was what led to a total failure of the whole development. Back in 2008, during the contract negotiation process, UBI business decision makers didn't want to hear about making it into the contract that in case of any UBI delays there would be any penalty for UBI. This was a stupid decision of a business development boss (she said "UBI would never be late with any deliverables".... HAHAHA). And that led to an awkward situation where the whole development got snowed up... but the UBI producers kept telling Black Hole that "no worries, guys, there would be more time and budget, just do what we say". It was then that one faction, Academy had been removed from the content list, as well as many other things. And then, at half of the development, Romain suddenly quit, Erwan was removed from the project - he was "elevated" to the position of Might and Magic Brand Director, which meant his direct involvement in the development was over -, and BH was left there with the blame. Just an example, the final story script - which was UBI responsibility - was delivered to BH after 27 months... while originally there was 24 months for the whole development. No comment.
As for BH commitment, BH used up all its 6 months reserves just to be able to finish the project... this was more than 1 million Euros!!! And they (we) did this knowing it would never be payed back, as royalty would only be paid after 2M Heroes sold at full price. We all knew 2M copies would never be sold (neither at full price nor at reduced price), still we wanted to finish the project. During the last 10 months, our full team worked 24/7, without any chance for compensation... and because of this, we didn't have any resources to find other projects and make sure BH would survive after the release of Heroes 6. In the meantime, our new UBI producers kept telling that "the BH team is not working during the nights and weekends, and is not committed to the project at all...". I can only say, just ask any of the BH team members of their commitment...
As for the many bugs: Heroes 6 is a gigantic project, with 1.5-2 million lines in the source code. This is bigger than most RPGs. Such a project can only be finished with good quality if there are several years and a huge budget (i.e. Blizzard games), or if there is a strict design lock date after 7-9 months of the start of development... in case of Heroes, the UBI guys were adding new ideas and were changing existing features during the whole development, even at the last months, so it was simply impossible to make a stable game for release. Just see what they are now doing with patch 1.3 (BH is not involved in that at all btw.). They cannot release a simple patch with a few smaller fixes in time, they are already in a 2-3 weeks delay. This is because the code is extremely complex, and UBI does not have the team to overview it and make it work in time, even if the Limbic guys are really great (and no, they are not involved in the Heroes development from the project start, they joined like 20 months later).
Some examples of what BH added to the game at their own cost, just to make the game better:
- Town screen (we hate the current version, but it is still better then the "let's make a screen shot from the adventure map 3D town and use it as a town screen" that UBI wanted - we could have made a much better one, but didn't have money and time).
- Additional ingame cutscenes (I know cutscenes are not great, but again, we received the story after 27 months... we only had a couple months to make the cutscenes from scratch, and a very limited budget - and I think that the overall visual quality of the game proves to anyone that we could have made really great cutscenes if we had had the time and budget).
- 300 unique Combat Maps (there were 20 in the contract)
- 3D animated Main Menu (UBI wanted a simple still image)
- Additional NPCs
- Campaign Overview Map (Campaign Window)
- and many more........
And what were the UBI decisions:
- Less resources
- No fullscreen town screens
- Only five factions (as a consequence of the continuous delays of UBI deliverables)
- Creature pool
- and many more such "great" changes.........
This project cost Black Hole its existence... while UBI is making profit on Heroes 6.
And just some more thoughts: UBI EMEA were working with four 3rd party developers during the Heroes development:
- Capibara - They made the really good (and financially successful) Clash of Heroes. The are not working with UBI anymore.
- Eugene Systems - They made R.U.S.E. They are not working with UBI anymore.
- Black Hole - They made Heroes 6. They are not working with UBI anymore.
- Techland - They made a 47% game for UBI (Call of Juarez: The Cartel - http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/ca...rez-the-cartel) - They are still working with UBI EMEA on a big project.
We heard the UBI guys blame those developers (and Nival) many times... I guess BH was blamed the same way to those developers.
It is always the developer who is responsible...
Just some food for thought.... Thanks guys for reading."
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted February 21, 2015 10:55 AM |
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dark-whisperer said:
Metacritic Heroes V
Look at those numbers for both games. They are far from bad as you try to represent them.
I think in that situation more relevant would be showing the fan scores of Tribes of the East (I exclude scores from reviews because they claim that ToE didn't change much, lol), as well as looking at the scores obtained by Shadow of Death, because these two games are remembered well because of two things: solid base game and expansion packs that added to it a whole new layer of depth.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted February 21, 2015 11:00 AM |
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My point is that even HVI was well received by press. Even Total Biscuit shows it in good light. So putting stars and press ratings as case for HIII and ignoring HV or HVI is not fair.
And here we are accusing UBI for everything bad that happened and destroying the franchise. That simply is not true.
One other thing. People are accusing UBI for milking the franchise and moneygrabing. Please look at this:
H3 expansions
H3 chronicles
Heroes Chronicles is a series of five stand-alone games and two free expansions, offering eight new single-player campaigns. Multiplayer, map editor, and random map generator are all absent.
Those chronicles were sold full price. So NWC was same or worse then UBI.
And about that post. Who is this Derpson? I could represent my self on this forum as UBI or Limbic employee, write bunch of nonsense wait for day or two and delete post. Would that make it true?
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted February 21, 2015 11:07 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 11:09, 21 Feb 2015.
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dark-whisperer said:
My point is that even HVI was well received by press. Even Total Biscuit shows it in good light. So putting stars and press ratings as case for HIII and ignoring HV or HVI is not fair.
And here we are accusing UBI for everything bad that happened and destroying the franchise. That simply is not true.
You brought up reviews.
I myself can very well judge a game on my own, and I'm sure others can as well.
Quote:
One other thing. People are accusing UBI for milking the franchise and moneygrabing. Please look at this:
H3 expansions
H3 chronicles
I haven't played them myself, but from what I've seen even the stories in Chronicles are vastly superior to Ashan.
Plus, they're entirely optional.
That's not to put the blame squarely on the writers of course,
modern gamers demand fully voiced dialogue.
Quote:
Heroes Chronicles is a series of five stand-alone games and two free expansions, offering eight new single-player campaigns. Multiplayer, map editor, and random map generator are all absent.
Those chronicles were sold full price. So NWC was same or worse then UBI.
Wrong. 3DO was.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted February 21, 2015 11:09 AM |
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i think it's worth noting about review scores that reviewers don't necessarily get enough time with the game. they do campaigns and maybe some scenarios and as far as first impressions go, h6 wasn't bad. a lot of the problems don't make much of an appearance until you've played for many, many hours. It's still a bad game, but you need to invest a lot of time to realize that, something reviewers often don't have.
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted February 21, 2015 11:11 AM |
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Edited by Kenishi at 11:16, 21 Feb 2015.
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@ThatRedSarah in response to your question I see things like this:
1. In Heroes 6 there was an overabundance of active abilities which in turn created a lot of problems a great source of buggs was do to Conflux and active abilities so on H7 devs. I feel they took a safer approach and avoided as much as possible the active abilities.
2. This is my opinion strictly on may feeling of the gameplay in H6 the activated abilities made the gameplay really quizzical some abilities didn't work or weren't well implemented and didn't take account of turns there for making very confusing what a turn meant and got of felling of non-uniqueness in units. What I mean by that is , and I think some already mentioned in the thread regarding top tire units like elites or champions when top tier units were presented H7 they lack uniqueness, they were most of the game useless you could use core and were absolutely fine and I felt it was easy because of the overabundance of active abilities and even the passive ones in the core units.
3. So this 2 points might explain the lack of activated abilities in H7 but I feel that champion units in H7 could use more active abilities making them more useful for different strategies late game on. Because as I see now you have to chose form one of the 2 available champion units that fill different roles but, I feel, that it's not enough champions should be more useful than core/elites and more versatile.
4. So as I see it you can have another situation like in H6 were I just use core and some elites and champion unit less or non at all because of that lack of differentiation among the core/elites/champion units.
To close up I might have deviated a bit from your question but I tried to make sens of the huge gap of approach regarding active abilities in H7 in comparison with H6 and what I wrote here is what I came up with.
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted February 21, 2015 11:14 AM |
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You say that you payed 50eu for HVI and stop playing it after a month. Alien isolation is game that has 20 hours of game time and its hardly replayable. It costs 50eu on steam and it got phenomenal reviews. I know that I played HVI for far more time then 20h. I got a lot more game play worth for 50eu from HVI.
Im not saying that HVI was better game then HIII. Im saying that some of you are overreacting in bad attitude towards UBI.
Community developers, Marzhin and now people from Limbic are on this forum trying to understand our wishes and make a good game and when I see nonsense like "they forced us to vote for faction" I just cant stop from reacting.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 21, 2015 11:16 AM |
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Avirosb said:
Wrong. 3DO was.
Indeed. I don't want to sound rude, but I honestly don't know how valuable the opinion of someone confusing the publisher with the developer is.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted February 21, 2015 11:21 AM |
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Galaad said:
Avirosb said:
Wrong. 3DO was.
Indeed. I don't want to sound rude, but I honestly don't know how valuable the opinion of someone confusing the publisher with the developer is.
How valuable is opinion of certified spammer and troll? Oh, yea, I didn't want to be rude 
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted February 21, 2015 11:25 AM |
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oh boy lots of news since i gone my trip. can anyone link me necropolis theme?
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted February 21, 2015 11:26 AM |
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
