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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted February 21, 2015 12:26 PM |
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Galaad said:
Sandro400, you know I respect a lot your opinion.
I know, as do I. I forgot to add /sarcasm.
Though, honestly, was a respect ever a shield from trolling? ^^
Oh, it seems I missed many things. As always, people write entire pages while I'm out.
Regarding "what do we know about Heroes VII except fluff text and graphics". Actually, we know many things already - somebody posted a list - but, as JJ correctly mentioned, we don't know the details. But that's normal. Mostly those unknown things are connected to the balance numbers, and we simply should not know them. For instance, how powerful are Fire spells or the town building tree. They're still in development and those things need more, way more time than lore texts etc. But hey, imagine that they actually share the numbers with whole community and not only insiders. There'll be an outrage of all "expert" home-balancers who know exactly what must be done.
But there's one thing that disturbs me. Even if we don't have details, there's little to zero balance discussions. Either fans completely lost trust in the developers' ability to make balanced game, or vice versa, they trust that devs understood their errors with H6 and will deliver a good product overall 
Regarding this H6/H3 conversation - guys, let's discuss H7 ^^ I see no point in your discussion. Nobody will change their respective opinions, and haters generally will just troll. You know, real haters are an exception really, most do so out of tendencies or to gain profit from trolling (even though it's the easiest path).
P.S.: actually, there's no shame in confusing 3DO with NWC if you're talking about post H2 games. NWC was bought by 3DO - actually, it "dissolved" inside 3DO which just made them a separate unit inside their company (like Ubi has the M&M team). Nival/BH/Limbic, on the other hand, are separate entities.
Well, at least that's how I remember and understand it.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 21, 2015 12:30 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
to gain profit from trolling (even though it's the easiest path).
Step 1: Steal underpants.
Step 2: Troll
Step 3: ?
Step 4: Profit!
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2015 12:34 PM |
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When it comes to rating a game, there are actually TWO ratings. The first is the general rating, in which you just look at the game. The game is rated at it's point of release.
From this point of view there is no "bad" HoMM game. HoMM 6 is somewhat "messy" - it's difficult to keep track what is actually happening on the BF with each stack and whether the game does the right computings and such -, but it is by no means a bad game.
Still, there is a second rating, and that's the rating against the predecessors when it's a game of a whole franchise.
In THIS rating a game has a problem, when it's generally a "good" game - but after playing it people think that they had nore fun with the one before that (or before THAT).
Here is, where HoMM 6 failed - I think that HoMM FIVE is the better of the two, and if I want to play a CURRENT HoMM I prefer playing HoMM 5 over HoMM 6 which is obviously a problem for the latter, since I do think I'm not alone in this regard.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted February 21, 2015 12:38 PM |
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Edited by verriker at 12:40, 21 Feb 2015.
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dark-whisperer said:
Lol, that is so weak Verriker, let me explain.
It is advertisement, of course they will say something along those lines.
ah yes indeed, Ubisoft will only ever acknowledge Heroes 3's superiority when Heroes 3 is in vogue, of course
Erwin Le Breton said:
Ummmm... If you really wanna start and discover the true, "original", let's say, experience, 3 is the basis. It's like the "magical" Might and Magic number. 5 is the first Heroes made by Ubisoft. 6, uhh, is very, uhh, beautiful, it's huge, etc, but it brought a lot of innovations to the series, some of them adopted by the fans so they will be in Heroes 7. Some of them were considered not being "true" Heroes. So it's a different Heroes.
lol
now, perhaps you'll accept a challenge from me: find me any review or article, ever, which claims that Heroes 6 is better than Heroes 3? 
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 21, 2015 12:41 PM |
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Look on youtube:
Might & Magic Heroes 7 - Gameplay Video (Gamescom 2014 Demo IGN Live):
11min, 45sec mark:
IGN interviewer: "It seems I have a lot of catching up to do. If I would wanna start out, should I start with 6, you think? If I were to start playing Heroes?"
Erwan: "Ummm, If you wanna start and discover the true, let's say original Heroes' game, 3 is the basic, is like the "magic goal" of Might and Magic ..."
Erwan himself says H3 is the best game in series.
There you go.
EDIT: Damn Verriker you had to be first 
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted February 21, 2015 12:47 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Step 1: Steal underpants.
Step 2: Troll
Step 3: ?
Step 4: Profit!
Something like this, yeah 
Galaad said:
You are right. Is just very hard for me to restrain when I see some stuff like "h6 was almost as well received than h3", but you are totally right, it should be ignored. I am posting way too much here recently anyway.
Let's just turn over this page of Heroes history. Even I, "the devil's advocate", won't defend H6 overall (only storyline, and still partially). Even the devs start mumbling when asked about this game.
/casts a Void spell to erase everybody's memories about H6 like it never happened/
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 21, 2015 12:57 PM |
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I think devs even said at some point, that their aim with H7 is not to surpass H3, as it can not be done. Their goal is to make best game they can, and to make it one of the best games in series (possibly on par with H3 ...) To me this sound like they're aiming towards "second place", as greatness that is H3 is unachiavable.
Don't quote me on that tho, as I may be wrong, but I belive i read it somewhere ...
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 21, 2015 12:59 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Their goal is to make best game they can
My opinion on the matter? Polish H5 gameplay and make designs NWC/JVC style and there you have probably a better game than Heroes III.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 21, 2015 01:04 PM |
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted February 21, 2015 01:10 PM |
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Stevie said:
Every single Ubi game lacked the Heroes atmosphere. Heroes 5 nailed the gameplay, but the visuals and designs did not spell Heroes like the older games did.
i dunno. I like the direction h6 (and 7) aesthetics are going. it does kinda look like a 3d h3 might've. it's not quite there yet, but i feel the art style is good. that said, everyone knows the best franchises switch art styles every now and again.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted February 21, 2015 01:11 PM |
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Stevie said:
Every single Ubi game lacked the Heroes atmosphere. Heroes 5 nailed the gameplay, but the visuals and designs did not spell Heroes like the older games did.
I think that they are on a right path in terms of atmosphere, as seen by Haven, Academy and partially Necropolis (don't kill me, please  ). The other factions also seem to have potential, as presented by great Hydra and Treant concept arts. The last piece of the jigsaw is a proper campaign and since in Heroes VI DlCs and Expansion Pack campaigns were really nice, therefore I feel that the issue of atmosphere would be rather solved.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 21, 2015 01:12 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 13:16, 21 Feb 2015.
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Stevie said:
Every single Ubi game lacked the Heroes atmosphere. Heroes 5 nailed the gameplay, but the visuals and designs did not spell Heroes like the older games did.
Exactly. I can't understand how some people actually agree with the color-coding bull. I mean, is not like the army is a soccer team lol
Pawek13 said:
I think that they are on a right path in terms of atmosphere, as seen by Haven, Academy
I've read an interview where Erwan says he's fond of Elves, and Necro and Dungeon are of his favorite factions. Jeez I wonder why the other factions look so good compared to these lol
Edit: I feel a bit like Verriker right now 
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted February 21, 2015 01:16 PM |
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Galaad said:
Exactly. I can't understand how some people actually agree with the color-coding bull. I mean, is not like the army is a soccer team lol
there are good reasons to color-code like being able to see exactly what units are yours with just a glance and so being able to spend more time thinking of what to do rather then what units are yours. that said, heroes has usually used direction units are facing instead (which i prefer anyway).
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 21, 2015 01:19 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
there are good reasons to color-code like being able to see exactly what units are yours with just a glance and so being able to spend more time thinking of what to do rather then what units are yours.
I disagree. I never had a trouble in distinguishing my units on the battlefield in any Heroes game. Fair enough in pre-Ubi ones it was thanks to 2D, but in Heroes V that aspect was way less emphasized than in latter games.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted February 21, 2015 01:27 PM |
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Galaad said:
I disagree. I never had a trouble in distinguishing my units on the battlefield in any Heroes game. Fair enough in pre-Ubi ones it was thanks to 2D, but in Heroes V that aspect was way less emphasized than in latter games.
I still think colour-coding was the wrong move and made the factions look way boring. however it does make information between player and game smoother and is as such not a terrible thing (doesn't help against the same faction though). i was merely pointing that there are good reasons for it and it is getting harder to distinguish sides with h6/7 so it's something we might need to keep an eye on.
h5 confused me quite a bit about this tbh. it's design didn't really mend well to strategical combat... (to much stuff flying around)
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 21, 2015 01:33 PM |
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Galaad said:
Zombi_Wizzard said:
Their goal is to make best game they can
My opinion on the matter? Polish H5 gameplay and make designs NWC/JVC style and there you have probably a better game than Heroes III.
I agree. This is why I don't like H6 that much btw. It's coz H6 took away the good things of H5 like initiative and tactics and ofc skillwheel. They even took out magic guild, Town levels, and made every town develop the same ....
Why did they do that? Why take away good inovations like this 
To me it sounds like they didn't understand what was the good part and what was the bad part of earlier games ...
This is what's bothering me a bit. Most H7 "new features" are basicaly "fixes" of H6's mistakes.
They give us Magic guild
They give us Skillwheel,
They give us caravans,
They give us random skills etc. etc.
Those are things that were there before, yet they took'em away. It's like stealing your neighbour's car, and after using it for a while, you give it back to him, saying: "here you go, I will give you this car for cheap price" ...
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted February 21, 2015 02:10 PM |
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"I think devs even said at some point, that their aim with H7 is not to surpass H3, as it can not be done." Pure nonsense and stupidity. Why were H2 and H3 that good? Because they upgraded the already existing formula of H1. H1 defined the game/franchise, and as long as you are upgrading it, it is going to be excellent. H4 changed some elements and because of that it can be seen as a different game, thus alienating many players from the formula they expected and which the 3 previous games have supported. H5 followed the right path, it upgraded H3. Yes there were some flaws, but they could have corrected them in H6, thus making the game much better than H3 and H5. In other words, it had the best chance to be the best Heroes game. But no, they had to change (WARNING, THIS IS A DANGER ZONE!  ) and remove many elements of the game, thus ruining what they had wonderfully done in H5. Why did they had to reinvent the wheel, I'll never know. Now we wait and hope that they will upgrade H5 to the level which was supposed to belong to H6. The key of surpassing H3 lies in the fact that you already have an established franchise with a fine base on which developer can work, but they need only to UPGRADE the existing notions, not change them. If they want to change something, they should make a completely new game in M&M universe , but then, please, do not call it Heroes. Heroes games has already been defined and new changes can only mean fire and brimstone upon the developer and Ubi.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted February 21, 2015 02:53 PM |
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Sleeping_Sun said:
"I think devs even said at some point, that their aim with H7 is not to surpass H3, as it can not be done." Pure nonsense and stupidity.
Heroes VII cannot surpass Heroes III in the eyes of (most) fans because it cannot surpass the sweet nostalgia-tinted memories of a game people played in the golden years of their youth. Just like no new Final Fantasy, no matter how good they may be, will ever come close to Final Fantasy VI or VII for fans. When a series has existed for 20 years, it's how it is.
So no, we're not developing Heroes VII with the goal "we will surpass Heroes III". It's not even for us to make such comparisons. We're developing Heroes VII thinking "we'll make a great game". Time will decide how well we fared against the games that came before us
(For the record, my personal goal is to surpass Heroes II as that is my favourite episode ever which Heroes III never surpassed  )
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted February 21, 2015 03:08 PM |
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Marzhin said:
Sleeping_Sun said:
"I think devs even said at some point, that their aim with H7 is not to surpass H3, as it can not be done." Pure nonsense and stupidity.
Heroes VII cannot surpass Heroes III in the eyes of (most) fans because it cannot surpass the sweet nostalgia-tinted memories of a game people played in the golden years of their youth. Just like no new Final Fantasy, no matter how good they may be, will ever come close to Final Fantasy VI or VII for fans. When a series has existed for 20 years, it's how it is.
So no, we're not developing Heroes VII with the goal "we will surpass Heroes III". It's not even for us to make such comparisons. We're developing Heroes VII thinking "we'll make a great game". Time will decide how well we fared against the games that came before us
(For the record, my personal goal is to surpass Heroes II as that is my favourite episode ever which Heroes III never surpassed )
I completely agree.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 21, 2015 03:11 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 15:34, 21 Feb 2015.
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RMZ1989 said:
I completely agree.
I don't in the slightest, but I will take my time to answer that.
______________________________________________________________________
This however:
Sleeping_Sun said:
Why were H2 and H3 that good? Because they upgraded the already existing formula of H1. H1 defined the game/franchise, and as long as you are upgrading it, it is going to be excellent. H4 changed some elements and because of that it can be seen as a different game, thus alienating many players from the formula they expected and which the 3 previous games have supported. H5 followed the right path, it upgraded H3. Yes there were some flaws, but they could have corrected them in H6, thus making the game much better than H3 and H5. In other words, it had the best chance to be the best Heroes game. But no, they had to change (WARNING, THIS IS A DANGER ZONE! ) and remove many elements of the game, thus ruining what they had wonderfully done in H5. Why did they had to reinvent the wheel, I'll never know. Now we wait and hope that they will upgrade H5 to the level which was supposed to belong to H6. The key of surpassing H3 lies in the fact that you already have an established franchise with a fine base on which developer can work, but they need only to UPGRADE the existing notions, not change them. If they want to change something, they should make a completely new game in M&M universe , but then, please, do not call it Heroes. Heroes games has already been defined and new changes can only mean fire and brimstone upon the developer and Ubi.
I even +QP, it makes perfect sense and Sleeping Sun is making good contributions to the forum overall.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
