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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 01:58 PM |
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War-overlord said:
How many non-campaign map did you play?
Did you enjoy those?
I thought I already said more than once that the main reason I don't single-play Heroes V anymore is because of visuals.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 02:03 PM |
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Galaad said:
I thought I already said more than once that the main reason I don't single-play Heroes V anymore is because of visuals.
Not realy an answer to my question. Fine.
Did the visuals turn you off of H6 as well? Were you able to enjoy that by avoiding campaigns? (regardsless of whether the game was buggy or not)
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 02:05 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 14:06, 24 Feb 2015.
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War-overlord said:
Not realy an answer to my question. Fine.
Did the visuals turn you off of H6 as well? Were you able to enjoy that by avoiding campaigns? (regardsless of whether the game was buggy or not)
I think I did.
At first no, but fast enough they turned me off.
But Heroes VI has bad gameplay on top of it, so that pretty much closed the deal for me.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 02:09 PM |
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Galaad said:
I think I did.
At first no, but fast enough they turned me off.
But Heroes VI has bad gameplay on top of it, so that pretty much closed the deal for me.
Explain to me why you still think H7 will be good.
Because visually, it's in the same line as at least H6, which you hated. Furthermore, it's been said that H6 set the standard as far as visuals go and future projects will follow a similar direction. And perhaps the gameplay will be better, but are you gonna play with your eyes closed?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 24, 2015 02:14 PM |
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Galaad said:
I disagree.
The looks of Heroes V highly bothered me, and when I started campaign, I understood pretty fast why I didn't choose to finish it. I understood lore was the reason of all my problems with Heroes V. You gotta admit designs and visuals -contributing to the atmosphere- are tied together with the lore, so whether I have a problem regarding the universe, I am willing to think lore is to blame for most cases. Trust me, if I could have avoided Ashan to affect me, I would have done so.
Fun fact. from all ubi games (only apart from CoH) H5's vizuals are the least influenced by the lore. since Ubi did not have the idea how they should be implemented yet.
So nival had a lot of freedom in this manner and went all WH on it. And if vizuals were your problem, and I know that was a common one, then be happy that you did not play it, since most of the story is a WRECK 
But I disagree with you. People could easily enjoy a game not knowing the entire story or background, Lore is to give us some idea not to serve us drinks while the game mechanics are in the drivers seat.
Now one not so fun part. A unit I have seen very few complaints about are the undead dragons. And my question is why? Why do you rage about the lich-vampire-Lamasu trio but almost nobody is troubled that the dragon is 100% reused from H6 as these 3 are, and even there he was a neural, based on a faction unit, that was based on a Boss. The model was not even that good and still you all are rather insulted by a few lines of text. Somehow oblivious that we are going to get the Black Dragon aswell, and I don't think Ubi is going to make a new model for it iether. So yea Why not reuse the model for the 5th(8th) time, not like people care if they have original modls. As long as they don't talk about them
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 02:17 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 14:19, 24 Feb 2015.
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War-overlord said:
Because visually, it's in the same line as at least H6, which you hated. Furthermore, it's been said that H6 set the standard as far as visuals go and future projects will follow a similar direction. And perhaps the gameplay will be better, but are you gonna play with your eyes closed?
I disagree, visually speaking H7 looks far better than both H5 and H6 so far IMO.
I'm in love with Wolf Haven and this version of Academy, and I'm pretty positive regarding Stronghold. Sylvan will be total Ashan this time, but I will wait to see actual models to disclose my final judgment. Dungeon I wait as well, I want to hope Medusae, Trogs, Minos and Hydras will make up for one or two units I may dislike. And regarding gameplay, as JJ said, we know nothing relevant yet.
So even if I rant, I still see some potential in H7, maybe not enough to be the great game Marzhin wishes for, but at least a good one that I hope to enjoy nevertheless.
Dave_Jame said:
Fun fact. from all ubi games (only apart from CoH) H5's vizuals are the least influenced by the lore.
To me lore goes beyond than story-telling alone.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 02:19 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Now one not so fun part. A unit I have seen very few complaints about are the undead dragons. And my question is why?
That few that do complain are drowned by all other complaints.
And because it is consistent with the conservative notion of what a Bone-Dragon "is supposed" to look like. Admittedly, that is very hard to mess up, but if people wanted to, they could start. It's just a target of less priority.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted February 24, 2015 02:22 PM |
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Edited by Marzhin at 14:22, 24 Feb 2015.
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Avonu said:
Thanks for answer but... when I played 50 Shades of Purple, Raelag visited former Talrad and it was bright, very bright. I would say it was too bright for Elves do get pale skin.
Also we can visit Talrad/Blacksomething in Heroes Online (it's Haven province in-game) and it also wasn't dark.
The Dungeon campaign of Shades is set one century after the Dark Elves were exiled underground and have left Tarlad altogether. Tarlad had the time to recover from the dark taint during that time (especially with Angels and Haven priests actively present in the area to cleanse it).
And as you know Heroes Online is set further after that 
The dark Tarlad and its effect on Dark Elves would have appeared in the sequel of the Heroes graphic novel had it continued (it should have been a trilogy). Too bad.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 02:31 PM |
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Galaad said:
I disagree, visually speaking H7 looks far better than both H5 and H6 so far IMO.
I'm in love with Wolf Haven and this version of Academy, and I'm pretty positive regarding Stronghold. Sylvan will be total Ashan this time, but I will wait to see actual models to disclose my final judgment. Dungeon I wait as well, I want to hope Medusae, Trogs, Minos and Hydras will make up for one or two units I may dislike. And regarding gameplay, as JJ said, we know nothing relevant yet.
So even if I rant, I still see some potential in H7, maybe not enough to be the great game Marzhin wishes for, but at least a good one that I hope to enjoy nevertheless.
Funny, I don't see H6 and H7 Haven as all that different, just a few different ornaments and heraldry and some drab colours. And Academy was gaudy and 1001-nighty in H5 and it still is in H7 But if it is good enough for you, all the better for you.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 02:35 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 14:37, 24 Feb 2015.
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War-overlord said:
Funny, I don't see H6 and H7 Haven as all that different, just a few different ornaments and heraldry and some drab colours. And Academy was gaudy and 1001-nighty in H5 and it still is in H7 But if it is good enough for you, all the better for you.
Are you kidding? The feel from H7 Haven is in no way close to the one in H6. In H6 was all about this overwhelming "Holyness", even cavalry lol, while in H7, I truly see a good medieval, darker theme.
And yes, I'm ok with Academy overall, and as a Tower hard-fan, this might say a lot about my honesty, good will, and so-called nostalgia accusations I suffer from sometimes.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 02:46 PM |
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Galaad said:
Are you kidding? The feel from H7 Haven is in no way close to the one in H6. In H6 was all about this overwhelming "Holyness", even cavalry lol, while in H7, I truly see a good medieval, darker theme.
What I said, more drab colours. The H6 Cavalier is shiny, the H7 Cavalier isn't. The armour and weaponry are virtually identical, save for the helmet's visor.
If the lack of Shiny gives you a whole different vibe, all the beter for you. But it doesn't for me.
And the Middle Ages being dark. That is such a Rennaisance opinion. Just because a few Italian ponces thought they could read latin better, a 1000 years of history is dismissed as dark, barbaric and ignorant.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted February 24, 2015 02:55 PM |
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War-overlord said:
If the lack of Shiny gives you a whole different vibe, all the beter for you.
the devil's in the details, War Overlord
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 24, 2015 02:55 PM |
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@War-Overlord:
I belive you are correct, and I agree. And this is what I pointed out before already. Here. (my second post, just after Dave) and here, about visuals (my first post, where I link Haven sentinel for comparison). So I sincerely wellcome you to the dark side 
If you don't read the lore, you are not influenced by it. Here. I don't read lore. The Vampires that drink Spider puke, and "mr. goody two shoes" Rakshasa, are enough for me to drive away my interest. Just like I didn't watch Twilight. And so neither of these things (twilight and heroes) had any effect on my view on Vampire in general. I simply ignore this in my mind.
Now. Lore does not dictate the visuals. Usualy imo the visuals are the thing that comes first. The lore is there to explain the visuals. And that's it.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 02:59 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
@War-Overlord: So I sincerely wellcome you to the dark side
I've always been on the Dark Side, since we have cookies. But I was over there, in the corner, you couldn't see me, you know, cause of the darkness and all.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 03:13 PM |
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War-overlord said:
What I said, more drab colours. The H6 Cavalier is shiny, the H7 Cavalier isn't. The armour and weaponry are virtually identical, save for the helmet's visor.
If the lack of Shiny gives you a whole different vibe, all the beter for you. But it doesn't for me.
Is not only about colors. Is about one army having Sister and Glory while another gets Wolf and Landksnecht, Justicar and Chaplain. This reflects directly something that goes beyond simple units design. As for the cavalry example, I only wanted to stress these dudes are not supposed to pass through the walls. I firmly believe is much more than a simple lack of shiny as you say, I think is the overall vibe that will deliver the whole faction's feel, and in that aspect, I find H7 Haven to be drastically different than its H6 counterpart.
War-overlord said:
And the Middle Ages being dark. That is such a Rennaisance opinion. Just because a few Italian ponces thought they could read latin better, a 1000 years of history is dismissed as dark, barbaric and ignorant.
It is absolutely right, the Irish monks in the VIIIth c. made copies of the treasures of Antiquity and shed most of them, the Middle Ages had their own renaissance (the XIIth century), the religious monasteries developed learning and education, Courteous love was invented in the courts of southern France, then were created the Universities in the XIIIth c., while were built the cathedrals, trading and craftsmanship were flourishing in the towns and so on. But it is also true that it was hard times in the countryside, wars, diseases (plague) and the religious authority reinforces with the scholastic, which prevented free thinking. So the new Renaissance rejected the old times as a dark period. Let's summarize : hard and cruel times to live, but still the Middle Ages had their bright light.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 03:37 PM |
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Galaad said:
Is not only about colors. Is about one army having Sister and Glory while another gets Wolf and Landksnecht, Justicar and Chaplain. This reflects directly something that goes beyond simple units design. As for the cavalry example, I only wanted to stress these dudes are not supposed to pass through the walls. I firmly believe is much more than a simple lack of shiny as you say, I think is the overall vibe that will deliver the whole faction's feel, and in that aspect, I find H7 Haven to be drastically different than its H6 counterpart.
Glories, yes, those were a sign of a more religious skew, but Sisters no. As Grim Riders are in concept not that different from Black Knights, Sisters are in concept not that different than Monks. Castle and Haven have had clergy fighting on the battle from H3, the Sister was a continuation of that trend in H6, as is the Chaplain in H7. Justicars and Landsknechts are both Offshoots of the Crusader-concept and are a bad example of why H7 Haven isn't religious. Lastly we're still geting Sisters as Warfare Units.
H7 Haven is still very religiously oriented, they are just less in your face about it with their dour drabness.
Galaad said:
But it is also true that it was hard times in the countryside, wars, diseases (plague) and the religious authority reinforces with the scholastic, which prevented free thinking. So the new Renaissance rejected the old times as a dark period. Let's summarize : hard and cruel times to live, but still the Middle Ages had their bright light.
None of which was any different before the Middle Ages or for several centuries after. It wasn't until the Industrial Revolution that the life of the peasantry got significantly better. Neither did medicine advance much untill the Industrial Revolution. And it was not until the First World War before Wars stopped ravaging the countryside every so many decades.
And Scholasticism did not prevent free-thinking, otherwise there would have been no Erasmusses and Thomas Aquinasses. And neither did the church do so effectively or exclusively in the Middle Ages. Even today, Churches and religious figures still enforce their orthodoxies onto people willing to accept them and use those same orthodoxies to villify those who think otherwise.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted February 24, 2015 04:23 PM |
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Is Ashan lore preventing some people to enjoy game?
Do you think that there is simply no way that HVII can be one of the best games in franchise because of Ashan?
Because that makes it clear, for me, why some of you are so negative from the start... Or did I missunderstood.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 04:29 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 16:39, 24 Feb 2015.
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War-overlord said:
H7 Haven is still very religiously oriented, they are just less in your face about it with their dour drabness.
Indeed they are:
Sister VS Chaplain.
Sun Crusader VS Cavalier.
I have a HUGE preference for the H7 concept arts.
War-overlord said:
None of which was any different before the Middle Ages or for several centuries after. It wasn't until the Industrial Revolution that the life of the peasantry got significantly better. Neither did medicine advance much untill the Industrial Revolution. And it was not until the First World War before Wars stopped ravaging the countryside every so many decades.
And Scholasticism did not prevent free-thinking, otherwise there would have been no Erasmusses and Thomas Aquinasses. And neither did the church do so effectively or exclusively in the Middle Ages. Even today, Churches and religious figures still enforce their orthodoxies onto people willing to accept them and use those same orthodoxies to villify those who think otherwise.
But peasantry did not live secure enough, the 100 hundred years war and the plague were devastating. We must admit at the times of the Quattrocento that there was a completely new access to the original texts of Antiquity (after the fall of Contantinople 1453, the byzantine scholars fled with the greek manuscripts to Venezia and Firenze), then began the great discoveries of the new worlds by the portuguese and by Colombus) which changed our vision of the world, and sciences made a great step with Copernic, Kepler, Tycho Brahé and Galileo. Add to that the revolution of printing (Gutenberg 1454), and you could understand why people had the right feeling to live a new historical period, contrasting deeply with the medieval one (called medieval because intermediary between the Great greek and roman Antiquity and the new Age of civilization).
Dark-Whisperer said:
Do you think that there is simply no way that HVII can be one of the best games in franchise because of Ashan?
Ashan could still get corrected, but it seems they only retcon stuff when it fits Erwan's personal preferences.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted February 24, 2015 04:41 PM |
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Edited by Kayna at 16:42, 24 Feb 2015.
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Avirosb said:
What's a conservative undead lineup?
It's the one, that you see. Amongst undead, consrvatives have won. In Sylvan's case it was the democrats, that's why they have deer instead of unicorn. Dungeon has been take over by liberals tho, so a lot of lineup has changed ... But it looks like consrvatives have Academy also ... not much change there. Haven? Democrats.
Now Stronghold is a true question. I would go for Socialist Worker's Party there. We need revolution comerades 
lol
JollyJoker said:
Mhat would be a progressive Necro then?
Trying another race would be a start?
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted February 24, 2015 04:44 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
Is Ashan lore preventing some people to enjoy game?
Do you think that there is simply no way that HVII can be one of the best games in franchise because of Ashan?
Because that makes it clear, for me, why some of you are so negative from the start... Or did I missunderstood.
I don't think we're prejudiced against the idea of Ashan, we all gave it a very fair chance and judge it to be crap from about ten years of experience lol
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
