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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 12:50 AM |
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I'm a bit curious in regards to Kaspar - he's a skilled doctor and healer, but isn't healing magic mostly Holy Empire's domain, with its strong Light affinity?
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 12:59 AM |
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He wasnt a necromancer always you know.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 01:31 AM |
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I know, before that he was a healer mage of the Seven Cities, but it's pretty strange that he choose the path of necromancy in his pursuits, which definitely closed some doors for him when it comes to proficiency in the Light magic.
Now, he probably focuses on Alchemy and Earth magic, I suppose... since some spells of the Earth magic are capable of healing, too. I'm not sure if they're as effective though - after all, most powerful Light magic spells can easily bring people back from the dead...
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted March 08, 2015 01:37 AM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 01:38, 08 Mar 2015.
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Healing isn't restricted to Light Magic only. In Heroes VI there were heealing spells also in Dark (Life drain) and Earth (Regeneration) schools. I think that his quest to be the best healer is mostly embedded in Earth Magic since Regeneration was able to heal creatures of all factions, unlike healing Light magic spells, which damaged creatures of darkness and demons.
PS. In terms of resurrecting he has Necromancy and this is more than enough.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 04:58 AM |
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Sligneris said:
I know, before that he was a healer mage of the Seven Cities, but it's pretty strange that he choose the path of necromancy in his pursuits, which definitely closed some doors for him when it comes to proficiency in the Light magic.
Now, he probably focuses on Alchemy and Earth magic, I suppose... since some spells of the Earth magic are capable of healing, too. I'm not sure if they're as effective though - after all, most powerful Light magic spells can easily bring people back from the dead...
We dont use magic to heal  Maybe he was an actual doctor and his studies about the body eventually lead to...well...necromancy. After all, forensic doctors are among the most knowledgeables kinds of doctor
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Sorts
Known Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 07:15 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
We dont use magic to heal Maybe he was an actual doctor and his studies about the body eventually lead to...well...necromancy. After all, forensic doctors are among the most knowledgeables kinds of doctor
In Anastasya's campaign in H6 he mentions having learned to use light magic.
I think is a healer in all possible ways: knowledge of medicine, alchemy, earth magic, necromancy and light magic too. His magic is based on wizardly studies, so its quite possible that he has retained the ability to use light magic. We don't know what happens if a undead caster attempts to use light magic, i imagine it might be harderor it might even harm him. But if he needs to use light magic to heal someone.
The difference between light and earth healing (also there are hints that water can heal too, we just don't see it in games probably) is mainly speed. Light heals quickly and directly, while earth is more about healing over time, quicker and far above natural recovery, but still.
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted March 08, 2015 07:39 AM |
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Edited by Kenishi at 07:41, 08 Mar 2015.
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So I will derail the discussion a bit and inject from real life and not in a happy way. I don't know how many of you have heard of the destruction done in Iraq regarding priceless ancient artifacts. Below is the link to an article.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2970270/Islamic-State-fighters-destroy-antiquities-Iraq-video.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline
Now way did I mentioned this is because I think that we could honor the lose of this artifacts among witch is the statues of Lamasu that are the inspiration of the Necro units with the same name. So I am asking the dev. If they could create the Lamasu dwelling building in the image of the destroyer statue or maybe as an external building of some sort in its image doesn’t need to be exact but close to the renaming images that we have.
Again I apologise if I sound selfish and/or I derail the thread but the loss of a 3000 old statue that lived through the ages got destroy by some of the most unpleasant traits of humanity that are narrow minded ignorance and extremist behavior do to mind washing is really upsating.
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 07:53 AM |
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On that note, I realy wonder. How DOES healing work in Ashan? I mean If a unit or a person only has 5% hp remaining and you hit him with light magic, he can heal to full. That means that creature was on a brink of death. But how damaged was the paitent? If he for instance has his arm loped off, or is missing a leg, does it regenerate? Does one need old arm or leg with him to "stich" it back magicaly? What about if leg was crushed completly to bloody mush by giant rock for instance?
And if cells can regenerate ... what about aging? Aging is proces, when cells in body die out quicker than new ones can replace them. So if Magic can regenerate cells ... magicaly, then that means people in Ashan have the knowledge to live forever, unless killed in unnatural way. They never age  . The Vampire even reverse age. This would explain it why. Because if they are under constant effect of healing spell, it means that cells regenerate fast, and they regain their youth.
That's all fine and good ... but what is with old people then? There shouldn't be any actualy. Yet they exist. And injured. There should not be permanent injury in Ashan, nor cancer, nor diabetes, nor damage from smoking ...(I guess there is none of this, which confirms this)
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 08, 2015 10:15 AM |
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Kenishi said:
Now way did I mentioned this is because I think that we could honor the lose of this artifacts among witch is the statues of Lamasu that are the inspiration of the Necro units with the same name. So I am asking the dev. If they could create the Lamasu dwelling building in the image of the destroyed statue or maybe as an external building of some sort in its image doesn’t need to be exact but close to the renaming images that we have.
Again I apologise if I sound selfish and/or I derail the thread but the loss of a 3000 old statue that lived through the ages got destroy by some of the most unpleasant traits of humanity that are narrow minded ignorance and extremist behavior do to mind washing is really upsating.
I support this plea.
The loss of such historical works of art is a great tragedy for all civilisation. Even a small homage such as this, would be a good thing.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 08, 2015 12:14 PM |
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted March 08, 2015 12:19 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
On that note, I realy wonder. How DOES healing work in Ashan?
Did you by any chance see the movie 'Elysium?' The giant space station, which is called Elysium, is home to rich refugees of earth, after this planet became overpopulated and hard to live on. Each villa has a so-called Med Bay. Basically you just lay down in it, it scans your body and instantly heals every injury you have or disease inside you. This is best portrayed by the moment when Kruger is put in the Med Bay after his face got blown off by a grenade. He is completely restored and looks a bit younger than he did before.
There is no need to search for an explanation as to how the hell this is possible, be it Ashan or some sci-fi residence. If we are to find logic behind everything, a lot of things will not make sense. Sometimes you just shouldn't overthink stuff. Healing is magic in Ashan, and no one can explain magic. Whether it is a Vestal healing you, an Angel resurrecting you, or a Druid taking care of Treants, it's all done through magic. Magic is your answer.
@Kenishi:
Iconoclasm is not just a thing of this age, unfortunately. During the Reformation, many Catholic churches in the Netherlands and Belgium were met with similar aggression. Countless precious artefacts were smashed to bits, churches looted, a devastation of unfathomable proportion. You can still see traces of that if you go to old churches or museums were statues are being kept. Faces are missing, or very damaged. It's abundantly clear that these ISIS snows still live somewhere in the Middle Ages...
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 03:17 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
Did you by any chance see the movie 'Elysium?' The giant space station, which is called Elysium, is home to rich refugees of earth, after this planet became overpopulated and hard to live on. Each villa has a so-called Med Bay. Basically you just lay down in it, it scans your body and instantly heals every injury you have or disease inside you. This is best portrayed by the moment when Kruger is put in the Med Bay after his face got blown off by a grenade. He is completely restored and looks a bit younger than he did before.
Sorry, I didn't see that movie. But as you describe it, it looks like humanity has advanced to the point, where they reached immortality, because of regeneration, that medicine provides. In Heroes, it can be magic sure ... but where is the immortality? In other words, why do they still age? Or do they?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 08, 2015 03:32 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
@Kenishi: Iconoclasm is not a thing of this age, unfortunately. During the Reformation, many Catholic churches in the Netherlands and Belgium were met with similar aggression. Countless precious artefacts were smashed to bits, churches looted, a devastation of unfathomable proportion. You can still see traces of that if you go to old churches or museums were statues are being kept. Faces are missing, or very damaged. It's abundantly clear that these ISIS snows still live somewhere in the Middle Ages...
As true as this is, even though Iconoclasm was something that happened in a lot more places where protestantism supplanted catholocism, is that a reason not to support such a plea? To not ask for a small hommage for such senselessly destroyed works of art?
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted March 08, 2015 03:41 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Dies_Irae said:
@Kenishi: Iconoclasm is not a thing of this age, unfortunately. During the Reformation, many Catholic churches in the Netherlands and Belgium were met with similar aggression. Countless precious artefacts were smashed to bits, churches looted, a devastation of unfathomable proportion. You can still see traces of that if you go to old churches or museums were statues are being kept. Faces are missing, or very damaged. It's abundantly clear that these ISIS snows still live somewhere in the Middle Ages...
As true as this is, even though Iconoclasm was something that happened in a lot more places where protestantism supplanted catholocism, is that a reason not to support such a plea? To not ask for a small hommage for such senselessly destroyed works of art?
On the contrary, War-Overlord. I heartily support this plea. We cannot undo what has been done, but at least we can try to make sure it doesn't keep happening...or that some memory of what is destroyed is preserved, no matter the cost. Older examples of iconoclasm have also destroyed priceless and irreplaceable things...
Mostly it is religiously motivated, but we must not forget what the Italian futurist and poet Filippo Tomasso Marinetti had in mind when he wrote his Futurist Manifesto in the early 20th century. Although it remained theoretical, he too pleaded for the destruction of museums and everything linked to the past. One can only imagine what would have happened if this guy had put his fantasies into practice.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 08, 2015 03:42 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
On the contrary, War-Overlord. I heartily support this plea. We cannot undo what has been done, but at least we can try to make sure it doesn't keep happening, or that some memory of what is destroyed is preserved, no matter the cost.
I am glad we are on the same page then.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Sorts
Known Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 05:40 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
A lot of talk about healing magic
These arguments can come up with any high fantasy + high magic setting. The easiest answer is that the way we see healing spells is a huge simplification for gameplay's sake. Your spell heals all those hit points or removes those conditions and thats all. In world/lore things can be different.
Now when we go into lore... there are many factors to consider. I actually don't know how short i can keep it. Im also keeping most of it general, since its more of a typical high magic healing problem, not an Ashan specific one.
First rule: Healer's ability. How effective healing magic actually is is determined by casters skill, power, devotion, amount of "mana," willpower, divine/spiritual influence or any combination of those factors. You can have bunch of clerics who can heal light wounds (no puns intended), but are unable to remove disease or restore a lost limb. Also the knowledge for higher healing abilities might be limited, either because its wielders want ti keep it limited or again... a common mage might not have the necessary skill to learn them.
Second rule: There are typically some additional limits to healing magic. Since magic has the right to be "unscientific" but can still follow some internal logic. For example in D&D there exists a rule that you cannot resurrect anyone who has died of old age. In some magic systems/settings it's harder or impossible to heal old wounds/scars because of the natural healing process or the creatures organism "getting used with its new form." Also how much magical manipulation can a creature actually take, can even benign magic become harmful?
In the end those "rules" just say that there is always some limit to the effectiveness of healing magic, depending on the magic system and capacities of its practitioners.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 06:05 PM |
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@Sorts: Yea I guess. And this is the thing tho. In some fantasy worlds topics like heling and magic are explained more in detail. I don't remember which movie (or book?) it was from, but in one story heling spells worked like, they aged the healer. So basicaly, if you get healed, the healer "sacrafices" his life force, thus reducing his own life span. In Ashan, it's not explained tho ... or atleast I hadn't seen it yet. I'm just started to get more knowledge about the lore so ... So maybe it does work like that in Ashan ... It would explained a lot if it did tho.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 07:48 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
Did you by any chance see the movie 'Elysium?' The giant space station, which is called Elysium, is home to rich refugees of earth, after this planet became overpopulated and hard to live on. Each villa has a so-called Med Bay. Basically you just lay down in it, it scans your body and instantly heals every injury you have or disease inside you. This is best portrayed by the moment when Kruger is put in the Med Bay after his face got blown off by a grenade. He is completely restored and looks a bit younger than he did before.
There is no need to search for an explanation as to how the hell this is possible, be it Ashan or some sci-fi residence. If we are to find logic behind everything, a lot of things will not make sense. Sometimes you just shouldn't overthink stuff. Healing is magic in Ashan, and no one can explain magic. Whether it is a Vestal healing you, an Angel resurrecting you, or a Druid taking care of Treants, it's all done through magic. Magic is your answer.
The thing is, we're not asking how the healing magic is possible, we're asking what is possible.
Our 'how does it work' questions were mostly about the effects - what are the exact effects of Ashan's healing magic and of Ashan's medicine?
I know these questions are mostly being answered, but I wanted to clarify this.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 08, 2015 07:56 PM |
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Sligneris said:
The thing is, we're not asking how the healing magic is possible, we're asking what is possible.
Our 'how does it work' questions were mostly about the effects - what are the exact effects of Ashan's healing magic and of Ashan's medicine?
I know these questions are mostly being answered, but I wanted to clarify this.
i don' think ubi has thought much further than "magic does stuff"...
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 08, 2015 11:00 PM |
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Or it just replaces anything and everything that was lost, based on what is still there. So, the replacement parts, limbs and tissues aren't any younger or older than what was lost - instead, it's of same age.
The problem in visualising how healing works on the battlefield is pretty directly tied in with the stack representation. Damage always happens to one member of the stack, until it dies, then to the next, etc ... until all damage is absorbed by the stack. Damage is never spread out among many or all member of the stack.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
