|
|
Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
|
posted May 09, 2015 02:09 PM |
|
Edited by Sempai at 14:15, 09 May 2015.
|
JotunLogi said:
Istead discussing about universe and mechanics, most of the time is spent on the same discussions about spiders- over and over again. I am not suprised that there are so many spder elements cause it seems to be only thing that is talked all the time and the thing that keep the interest...
Because mechanics problems are too sad and disappionting to discuss. And the spider stuff is bizarre and hilarious... and retarded lol so it's fun to discuss so hyperbolized things. That's the reason.
Or shall we pretend that our discussions about mechanics were any useful? I think it has been more than enough at SC where we discussed all flaws in a proper way but any single duck was given. So... I'd rather talk about spiders. At least that's fun. (Irish accent)
Sligneris said:
while "NWC-Lovers", on the other hand are hard to mock and exaggerate, because most of their statements are already over the top and preachy by themselves.
So shall I be glad that I'm not a NWC-Lover? huehuehuehuehue
|
|
Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 02:09 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
I don't want silly stuff, that's all. A flying city above the clouds for an Academy town is cool. A rock with giant spider legs for a Necropolis town is utter bullsnow. The purpose of visuals or a fantasy concept is not to be entrenched in realism necessarily, it is to convey the right feeling which makes you like it. The only feeling I get from the Necropolis townscreen displaying a town with spider legs + pyramids is that of a facepalm inducing stupidity.
Fair enough. I will not defend Necro townscreen, as that isn't my intention, and I also think it's ridiculous. Actualy if spider leggs were to be removed, the town would imo be quite acceptable. Buildings are still to clustered, but it would be much better imo. The concept of what's cool tho, is based on each individual. I am almost certain the Necro town was painted thus on purpose ... which implies that, atleast author of original idea taught it's cool.
Also I did not pick flying city by a chance. As everytime I see floating mountains/islands/rocks, maybe even with buildings on them I start to roll my eyes. To me it's something silly. The source does not matter. I remember playing WoW, and in Burning Crusade, there was whole continent with loads of floaty rocks/mountains/islands ... everyone around me taught it's cool, while me ... I silently said to myself: "now that's just ridiculous" In next expansion whole main city was floating in air. Not a fan of that, as you see ... however, since I saw it in loads of games, art and such, I grew kinda numb to the silliness of it ... and now I think ... "oh a flying town... great ... moving on." LOL
What I was originaly implaying was: It's far more scientificaly feasible, to have a spider shaped town, than to have a flying one, even tho the first one looks more stupid. But there you go.
|
|
Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 02:10 PM |
|
|
Sligneris&lokdron: just a friendly reminder, guys, you are a part of this community as well.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
|
|
Sligneris
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 02:12 PM |
|
|
We're talking about its most active and representative elements though. 
|
|
cleglaw
Famous Hero
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 02:28 PM |
|
Edited by cleglaw at 14:59, 09 May 2015.
|
heroes title should have ended with 4. i never seen such "weird" fanbase-dev team struggle before: both sides have reasons, so i really dont understand the point of making 7th game, just name it something else, and do whatever you want with it...
as long as its turn based and fantasy based, heroes fans will look into it anyway. i mean there are not plenty of this kind of game! its not a FPS. its not hard to see.
i hope ubisoft dont use heroes name anymore. i like what they are doing in some parts, but even i cant hold my self to get angry to content when i think this game is a heroes game... this series have codes in its core to be protected. this whole stuggle comes from it.
heroes classes will be a big part in h7 gameplay now, but its something new, and thats not an easy thing to understand, so fans judge it wrongly, and devs doing something "not heroes". do it under another title and everyone will judge it by "what it is" instead of "what it should be" win-win both sides.
they do this or not, its already not heroes but something else in my eyes. im not saying its a good/bad thing, but its different.
we have h3. and now we have another game, that which is not h7, but still a turn based fantasy strategy.
i am happy as long as i dont see its name as "heroes". i ll just continue this, pretending like its not a game from that legacy, but a tribute to it. it all becomes much better then.
i really advise same thing to you guys, there are nothing from past, everything is new, just think like this. there are 6 factions in this game, its not rampart, necro etc, they are new, its not a heroes game, this is a tribute.
and because of that, we may have dark horses living underground, called nightmare on a total coincidence  this game is based on animals. spiders with undead?! coooool.
what? its a different game and everything is possible! what do you mean its heroes.. its also looking like warcraft? so its warcraft now? come on dont be silly, its 2015, you cant make a game without getting influence from great games of the past.
huh, what do you mean "you are insane"?
|
|
Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 02:50 PM |
|
|
|
Hehe it's naive to expect they gonna reject hundred million dollars well-known franchise with ready-made fanbase
|
|
Sligneris
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 02:55 PM |
|
|
|
You know what is the core of a Heroes game? The fact that it's a turn-based strategy where you play as heroes leading armies, fighting battles and governing towns. I see all of these in both Heroes 6 and Heroes 7. Literally the only game that could be called "not a Heroes game" is ironically Heroes 4, where you don't need Heroes to lead armies, or where you don't even need armies to win battles.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 03:01 PM |
|
|
JotunLogi said:
In hoMM 2 castles are limited to few buildings so each must be unique due to low amount of them.
Since HoMM 3 generally the town developement is represented by houses of its inabitants- and generally towns are much more detailed so automatically there must be more buildings and by that- those must ba smaller. It is harder to distinguissh them
Yes, it is true that Heroes 2 benefited from the relatively small amount of buildings in the town - that is a challenge for H7. I think H3 Stronghold is a good example of how one should fix this problem: You make a foreground "layer" where you have the minor, less important buildings - tavern, marketplace, armory, low-level dwellings, etc. - and then you choose a subset of buildings that you make really stand out - here obviously the higher level dwellings, the mage guild, a special building etc. What H7 does is almost the exact opposite: It puts a big wall(!) in the foreground, and then it squeezes all the other buildings into the background, making them teeny-tiny so you can't make out what's what and everything blends together (apart from the grail building, which we knows get next to no time anyway).
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 04:04 PM |
|
|
Sligneris said:
Alright, then what's so wrong with the lore? As far as I'm concerned they are emotionless members of a creepying sect that, once exiled by the wizards, started gathering undead armies and planning their revenge. Pretty much what you'd expect from Necropolis.
while i can't speak for everyone i personally find the biggest offender to necropolis' non-scariness to be how goody-two-shoes and justified they are portrayed to be. They're not wrong when they decide to do something and that something is never even very scary. Just, talking or something. They never do anything, they glow green like a snowing st. Patrick's day Christmas tree and seems to think 90's leather to be the most hardcore apparel ever. And that's not even getting into the super-forced spider themes and ridiculous spikes, points and other random snow glued on that would make a 40k Ork squee of envy. They're "more is less" when they should be "less is more" and just comes of as childish.
I doubt there's even potential for creepiness as long as they have this cult going on.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 04:25 PM |
|
|
Linking ascetism or buddhism to necromancy is genious if you have any knowledge about the spiritual message of Buddhism.
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
|
|
Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 05:00 PM |
|
Edited by Sempai at 17:24, 09 May 2015.
|
Minion said:
Linking ascetism or buddhism to necromancy is genious if you have any knowledge about the spiritual message of Buddhism.
Lord Erwin is a pure genius, no doubts about this ^^
|
|
kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 05:01 PM |
|
|
Minion said:
Linking ascetism or buddhism to necromancy is genious if you have any knowledge about the spiritual message of Buddhism.
totally. Too bad they failed miserably.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
|
|
Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
|
|
posted May 09, 2015 06:24 PM |
|
|
Hmmm maybe there's more to it ... Here's the direction towards I'm thinking:
Budhist monks are known to shave their heads and meditate a lot. Meditating = not doing anything.
Erwan shaves his head, and as a deirector ... he dosen't do much ... unless he meditates on heroes ideas. He DOES remind me of budhist monk 
Now Erwan also likes spiders, this much is true so, he IS a spider loving budhist in a sense.
|
|
Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
|
|
posted May 10, 2015 12:03 AM |
|
|
I've written it before, but for me, the distinction is pretty obvious.
Necropolis is pure Evil and about anti-life. They want to snuff out all life and drown the world in eternal undeath. Life opposes everything they stand for; they hate it with a passion, strive to let everything wither and decay. They see the weaker life forms as cattle, to be harvested and swell their ranks. They want to engulf the world in eternal darkness and actively seek to destroy it.
Arachnopolis is True Neutral and about eternal life. they don't care about life or death of others in anyway. They're purely self-centered and life is at the very core of their being, which they try to encase for all eternity. They resurrect the dead mostly because it's convenient and easy for them to do so, since they're dabbling in Necromantic powers anyway. They care little for the world around them, if it doesn't help them achieve eternal life.
|
|
lokdron
Famous Hero
|
|
posted May 10, 2015 12:05 AM |
|
|
kiryu133 said:
Sligneris said:
Alright, then what's so wrong with the lore? As far as I'm concerned they are emotionless members of a creepying sect that, once exiled by the wizards, started gathering undead armies and planning their revenge. Pretty much what you'd expect from Necropolis.
while i can't speak for everyone i personally find the biggest offender to necropolis' non-scariness to be how goody-two-shoes and justified they are portrayed to be. They're not wrong when they decide to do something and that something is never even very scary. Just, talking or something. They never do anything, they glow green like a snowing st. Patrick's day Christmas tree and seems to think 90's leather to be the most hardcore apparel ever. And that's not even getting into the super-forced spider themes and ridiculous spikes, points and other random snow glued on that would make a 40k Ork squee of envy. They're "more is less" when they should be "less is more" and just comes of as childish.
I doubt there's even potential for creepiness as long as they have this cult going on.
Considering what they were doing in dark messiah feeding people to ghouls. Sending undead cyclolps to destroy a simple town oh and afterwards they are going to raise them as undead. In their minds they are justified but to me they are not and asha can go stuff herself for helping them.
Heck during the heroes 6 expansion most of the things they were describing where making me raise my eyebrow. Turning Haven heroes into blood cattle, launching acid into them to burn slowly and vein really has a "colourful" history like attaching his enemies carcasses to his horse.
I mean Anastasya obviously called him to defend her lands because of their past and what he is "capable" of.
Even then if you played anastasya blood (best path imo) she not all that nice either honestly. Even jorgen states in the heroes 7 tales of ten years that her eyes are colder.
Even Arantir was pretty hardcore going by dark messiah.
In my opinion the "nice" ones are the minority from the looks of things. Who keep wagging their fingers at those who act like standard mean necromancers and even then they roll their eyes and just do it anyway.
Even kaspar the "nice" necromancer left Heresh because they were experimenting with the lamasu and created the plague version.
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 10, 2015 12:17 AM |
|
|
They're hypocrites. They think they're serving Asha like the goody-two-shoes they are, but jokes on them. Asha doesn't care, and their methods are unlike anything they preach. A laughable version of what was supposed to be fear and death incarnate. Necropolis never stooped so low.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
lokdron
Famous Hero
|
|
posted May 10, 2015 12:23 AM |
|
Edited by lokdron at 00:30, 10 May 2015.
|
Isn't the fear and death thing more of an inferno thing now? 
Hmmm I disagree in a sense she does not care considering her nightmares/avatar gives them powers and shares visions with them, plus her statue tries to stop you/warns you in dark messiah.
Plus they drink its bloody venom to become vampires. Instead of the old fashioned way of doing the ritual of night.
I say she is very much invested in them.
In my opinion though stevie you could say that of all the factions. I mean inquisitors of haven still had their crazy power of light if Elrath disapproved he would not have lended them his strength. Since haven magic is pretty much a form of prayer. Just like Malassa spitting out psychopathic assassins and warlocks with thumbs up along the way. Just like some demons are not hellbent on destroying the world because Urgash motto is pretty much "do whatever you feel like doing you have complete freedom to do so."
I just think the dragon gods have dual aspects they got bad and good aspects.
|
|
Sligneris
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted May 10, 2015 12:26 AM |
|
|
Personally, reasons listed by Lokdron and Maurice are why I prefer Ashan's portrayal of Necropolis.
For a group of individuals, it's only natural to adopt a mindset that justifies their actions - it happens all the time in our history, really. That's why I like it - it treats Necropolis heroes like real characters.
lokdron said:
Hmmm I disagree in a sense she does not care considering her nightmares/avatar gives them powers and shares visions with them, plus her statue tries to stop you/warns you in dark messiah.
Asha is sleeping, healing after the Wars of Creation. She hasn't interacted with anything or anyone since Sar-Elam's ascension - her only involvement seems to be continuing the reincarnation process.
Mother Namtaru is a separate entity, an abomination created from nightmares she suffered after this conflict. She certainly has Asha's memories, but I wouldn't call her knowledgeable of Asha's exact will. I believe the statue in Dark Messiah to be imbued with Mother Namtaru's spirit as well, to be honest.
|
|
lokdron
Famous Hero
|
|
posted May 10, 2015 12:34 AM |
|
Edited by lokdron at 00:38, 10 May 2015.
|
Sligneris said:
Personally, reasons listed by Lokdron and Maurice are why I prefer Ashan's portrayal of Necropolis.
For a group of individuals, it's only natural to adopt a mindset that justifies their actions - it happens all the time in our history, really. That's why I like it - it treats Necropolis heroes like real characters.
Well yeah there are many people who feel the same in my opinion the whole lore of necropolis is pretty standard death cult worshiping a death god. I don't like or hate it I just like necromancers in general and in my opinion they look cool. My favorite faction in heroes is inferno, *cries* wish they were in.
Same reason why I like them in the diciples series and even there its even more basic. Mortis just points at something she is angry at (she is always angry) and the undead legions just go kill it while yelling for mortis every second. That's pretty much their lore the only interesting part is how she got like that.
edit:
Well isn't that technically still an avatar? That's why I put nightmares/avatar since for all the other dragons they have their "children" you know the dragons the armies can recruit. Well I just hold the opinion it is an avatar since it still holds asha's interests in mind in a sense.
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 10, 2015 12:35 AM |
|
Edited by Stevie at 00:39, 10 May 2015.
|
lokdron said:
I say she is very much invested in them.
Well, you couldn't be more wrong. She favors no one. The avatar of her nightmares, the Namtaru, is not her. The entire prime magic they use is based on heirlooms of encapsulated prime spirits and not from her divine favor like in the case of the other dragons. The only instance Asha ever cared about someone was Sar-Elam and none other.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
| |
|
|
This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
