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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 14, 2015 01:34 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Individual judgement then. I'm just sick of this herd mentality.
well, true everywhere. there are, to my knowledge, 3 "sides" (god the sides here are stupid) to this whole shabang: the "sandros" feeling that the Franchise is ruined and wants the game to be as good and respected as during its heydays (frankly an impossibility as long as Ubisoft holds the license), the "ubi-sheeple" who just wants the Sondro's to stfu and let glorious Ubi do their beautiful work or are just caught in the hype and don't want their money/feelings to be hurt in vain (don't buy into hype, people, at least not from Ubisoft) and there is the third, "we don't care, we're just here to see where the game is going". You don't hear much from them, but these people are most likely the actual majority and, if they are aware of it, are just tired of the whole ordeal.
I don't know where i fit in since i'm mostly driven by my principles against snowheads by this point. Screw Ubi for being greedy douchebags, essentially.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
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posted May 14, 2015 01:40 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Ehh, this again? It's so silly, I shouldn't be even trying by now. 'Warranted criticism', lol.
They couldn't, actually - reactions to the skillwheel design philosophy article are proof of that. It's an insult to disagree with you. It's arrogant of them to say they don't share your beliefs.
There's nothing wrong with ignoring people who impose their will on others and won't take 'no' as an answer.
Sligneris, I expected you to be a little bit wiser actually. That's pity that I have to repeat the same stuff multiple times for you to understand.
1) I CAN accept "NO" answer. But ignoring and pretending "nothing happened" is NOT an answer. There was no any NO answer during all the madness on SC. I expected it to appear to end this, but it didn't happen.
2) The problem is that I was talking the same stuff about "Constructive criticism, creativity etc instead of spam and insulting" when Galaad start flaming about #GURS or #GROS (I don't remember exactly) but any single luck was given about "constructive" walls of text and they reacted on spam. So isn't it obvious to use tools which they react on instead of using uneffective?
3) Skillwheel philosophy article was designed before Sandro riots and actually it was too offensive with subjective thoughts, general meaning "we know better". I agree with this. They know better how to get people's money but stop pretending that they use community development and reveal that SC is just an AD tool.
4) Silly is to tell us that we bash ubisoft just for bashing it. I never did it without purpose: If I liked Academy - I've told it, If I liked Stronghold town - I've told it. I think your problem is you are trying to invent excuses to everything you receive even if it's pure bottom and I don't. If it's scrap, I call it scrap.
P.S. That's the last time I explain obvious things to you. You started to seem repeatingly saying mantra or something about how you dislike our "bashing and insulting ubisoft". My arguments were here so you could read them if you were interested. If not, then what are we talking about? Just don't annoy others pretending you are smarter than the "sheep majority who blame ubisoft for stuff". If we do, so we have a purpose, that's all you need to know. If you like them so, go and tell them that you like and be vocal as we were in our complaints. Gather people around your idea, there's no need in trying to convince others that they are wrong. It's an internet.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 14, 2015 01:40 PM |
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Quote:
objectivity is an impossibility when it comes to games, period.
I beg to differ.
Objectively speaking, the whole setting changed when Ashan made its way into the brand, and seems a pretty legitimate consequence to create clashes between fans.
Objectively speaking, the core mechanics of the series were altered in both H4 and H6.
Objectively speaking, the skill system in H7 is closer to H6 than any other Heroes titles for the fact alone that the core is non-random.
Objectively speaking, the votes down the SC were extremely badly handled.
Objectively speaking, Ashan visuals are anything but unique.
Objectively speaking, seven schools of magic are harder to balance than four.
I could go on, but would you have anymore popcorn left?
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted May 14, 2015 01:44 PM |
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hehehe ... nerds 
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted May 14, 2015 01:45 PM |
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I just love visiting HoMM7 forum  
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 14, 2015 01:54 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 13:55, 14 May 2015.
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Galaad said:
Quote:
objectivity is an impossibility when it comes to games, period.
I beg to differ.
Galaad said:
Objectively speaking, the whole setting changed when Ashan made its way into the brand, and seems a pretty legitimate consequence to create clashes between fans.
i, what?
Galaad said:
Objectively speaking, the core mechanics of the series were altered in both H4 and H6.
subjective. depends on what you find the core mechanics to be.
Galaad said:
Objectively speaking, the skill system in H7 is closer to H6 than any other Heroes titles for the fact alone that the core is non-random.
subjective. i find it closer to heroes 5 myself.
Galaad said:
Objectively speaking, the votes down the SC were extremely badly handled.
subjective. I agree, but there is bound to be a snow-ton of people who think the votes were rather ok.
Galaad said:
Objectively speaking, Ashan visuals are anything but unique.
very subjective though i agree
Galaad said:
Objectively speaking, seven schools of magic are harder to balance than four.
subjective.
Galaad said:
I could go on, but would you have anymore popcorn left?
well that was annoying. either way, anything that's not a fact and related to Videogames can not be objective since video games are art (and toys). Opinions is the only thing people have about them.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted May 14, 2015 02:06 PM |
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It is only natural to feel strongly about you care about alot. When people are bitter and angry when something they loved was changed into something different it is only normal as is the try to change that with every means possible. Furthermore the people here are atleast mostly civilized about it, considering that this is the internet you guys should be happy that there are mostly nice people in this forum.
If you really wanna see bad cases of game communities you should look into the black desert forums for example. There is so much hate there and and almost no knowledge of the englisch grammar
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted May 14, 2015 02:24 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Galaad said:
Objectively speaking, the whole setting changed when Ashan made its way into the brand, and seems a pretty legitimate consequence to create clashes between fans.
i, what?
Are you denying that changing world changes setting? It's a pretty obvious statement, the second part is a consequence, not an objective statement.
kiryu133 said:
Galaad said:
Objectively speaking, the core mechanics of the series were altered in both H4 and H6.
subjective. depends on what you find the core mechanics to be.
The core mechanics are pretty objective actually, in H4 heroes instead of being out of battle could participate directly and troops could go alone without a hero.
kiryu133 said:
Galaad said:
Objectively speaking, the skill system in H7 is closer to H6 than any other Heroes titles for the fact alone that the core is non-random.
subjective. i find it closer to heroes 5 myself.
It's a matter of similarity, but I'll agree on the fact that it's closer to HV, but at the same time is, like HVI, non-random at its core.
kiryu133 said:
Galaad said:
Objectively speaking, seven schools of magic are harder to balance than four.
subjective.
The statement that Galaad made is true if you make every magic school unique, if it isn't though it's easy.
These were the contentions I had, though I agree that regarding visuals and votes it's pretty subjective...
Or maybe that's because I'm a story-writer-painter-janitor-plumber at Ubi Studios...
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted May 14, 2015 02:37 PM |
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Stevie said:
Some people translate warranted criticism into bashing.
Nothing new under the sun.
State of denial.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 14, 2015 02:57 PM |
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Neraus said:
Are you denying that changing world changes setting? It's a pretty obvious statement, the second part is a consequence, not an objective statement.
just not sure what he meant. either way, it's less about the game than just something that happened.
Neraus said:
The core mechanics are pretty objective actually, in H4 heroes instead of being out of battle could participate directly and troops could go alone without a hero.
since i can disagree without being wrong it is automatically a subjective statement. I don't find heroes participating actively in battles to be a core-mechanic change (and they've been doing it from the start either way) since nothing really changed. sure, you could lead armies without heroes, but it was still leading armies on a map, battling in separate battle-maps and developing your lands and heavy rpg-elemnts. That's what i consider core-mechanics and they didn't change. Moving from random skills is more of a deviation to me. still subjective.
Neraus said:
It's a matter of similarity, but I'll agree on the fact that it's closer to HV, but at the same time is, like HVI, non-random at its core.
eh, non-random or not, still just an opinion.
Neraus said:
The statement that Galaad made is true if you make every magic school unique, if it isn't though it's easy.
depends on who is foing the coding. could be some strange person who finds it harder to balance fewer variables. But since it was about difficulty (a very, very subjective thing even by gaming standards) there's hardly a discussion to be had to begin with
Neraus said:
These were the contentions I had, though I agree that regarding visuals and votes it's pretty subjective...
Or maybe that's because I'm a story-writer-painter-janitor-plumber at Ubi Studios...
games are art (as much as Ubi don't want them to). Art is inherently subjective and can only challenge our opinions. There no such thing as an objectively "better" game. It's only better to you.
Unless we're talking about Super Metroid 'cause that is factually the best game ever made, PERIOD.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted May 14, 2015 03:22 PM |
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Sempai, I'm not even trying to convince anyone right now. There are many 'obvious' things, that I also gave up on explaining anymore... I wouldn't call what I said unwise, but I do agree I don't put much effort here anymore. I define the difference between bashing and criticism just like Kenishi.
Kenishi said:
Criticism is welcomed as long is constructive like for me the whole color scheme is brow reddish which could present some issue to color blind people I would hope it can be changed somehow also I dislike it and would hope I don't have to "live with it" and have an option to change it.
So far so good but coming and saying that this color scheme is once again chosen for the taste of Erwan and probably the great overlord is to blame for it is not criticism is bashing, and I feel is a bit tedious when vast majority of posts go this direction.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 14, 2015 03:29 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
either way, anything that's not a fact and related to Videogames can not be objective since video games are art (and toys). Opinions is the only thing people have about them.
This proposal you make here rests on the presupposing that the artistic cannot be objective. And an entirely subjective object would be unthinkable and unapproachable on any report. It is not because a PART of the artistic creation rests on a feeling partly shone even subjective, that EVERYTHING becomes inexpressible. For instance, it is a fact that such film cost such budget. It is a fact that the author made a choice of this technology and not made other one. In the same way, I speak to you facts on this series and fact express not to speak besides, which is my personal taste. Can you answer me, in whatever fact the tree is not unpredictable is subjective?
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 14, 2015 03:40 PM |
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complaining about complaining, yum yum yum, the source of my evil powers lol
seriously though guys, even the most hopelessly deluded person must admit there is a lot of evidence that Erwin and his IP control mentality is directly responsible for some of the core design decisions which broke down Heroes 6, not least among them the utterly unwieldy magic system, desperate bent towards eliminating randomness and car crash inclination towards a persistent online world, which still have a pretty serious chance of damaging Heroes 7 lol
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 14, 2015 03:57 PM |
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verriker said:
car crash inclination towards a persistent online world, which still have a pretty serious chance of damaging Heroes 7 lol
that's probably orders from higher up.
Galaad said:
This proposal you make here rests on the presupposing that the artistic cannot be objective. And an entirely subjective object would be unthinkable and unapproachable on any report. It is not because a PART of the artistic creation rests on a feeling partly shone even subjective, that EVERYTHING becomes inexpressible. For instance, it is a fact that such film cost such budget. It is a fact that the author made a choice of this technology and not made other one. In the same way, I speak to you facts on this series and fact express not to speak besides, which is my personal taste. Can you answer me, in whatever fact the tree is not unpredictable is subjective?
My inability to actually make my points understandable bites me in the arse yet again, but whatever. You can talk about games objectively, but all you're going to get is "heroes 7 is the seventh installation in Might and magic: heroes (formerely named Heroes of might and magic) franchise. It is developed by Limbic and published By Ubisoft. It is a turn-based strategy game with RPG elements". You can take it further but you get the idea. Anything that is not a fact (it's on unreal engine for example) is 100% subjective, that includes your opinions on the skill wheel, even if everyone would agree on it. Which they don't.
Galaad said:
Can you answer me, in whatever fact the tree is not unpredictable is subjective?
i am not sure what you mean by this. The skill system? 'cause i can imagine the whole thing being very situational. either way, someone is gonna find it unpredictable somewhere. i also don't see what that has to do with anything?
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted May 14, 2015 03:57 PM |
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I'm starting to regret I even got involved, I made just a few lazy comments, but still ended up somehow being considered a participant.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 14, 2015 04:00 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
that's probably orders from higher up.
Julian Benson said:
One of the people responsible for building this new Might & Magic is brand director Erwan Le Breton. He’s a veteran: having worked as a producer on the last four Might & Magic games. HIs work on Heroes VI began with a team brainstorm: what would the perfect Might and Magic game include? Their conclusions: more levels of strategy, an RPG reputation system like the one in Bioware’s games, they wanted to have some of the persistent elements they were seeing in MMOs, like an always connected community of adventurers.
Players hated it.
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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted May 14, 2015 04:06 PM |
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Good ideas poorly inplemented. If this franchise gonna survive it needs to adapt and evolve. All those suggestions were, at the time, things that made other games succesfull. If they just keep making H3 and H5 with better graphics the franchise will die. Now they are stuck inbetween with a resteicted budget.
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 14, 2015 04:08 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 16:09, 14 May 2015.
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verriker said:
they wanted to have some of the persistent elements they were seeing in MMOs, like an always connected community of adventurers.
Players hated it.
Well i'll be. Not convinced it wasn't one of those standard Ubi-PC things and he just did the best he could (witch apparently is pretty terrible). I mean, there is no way in hell someone who actually plays or makes games have any real power in that company.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 14, 2015 04:14 PM |
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Sligneris said:
I'm starting to regret I even got involved, I made just a few lazy comments, but still ended up somehow being considered a participant.
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted May 14, 2015 04:15 PM |
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properkheldar said:
Good ideas poorly inplemented. If this franchise gonna survive it needs to adapt and evolve. All those suggestions were, at the time, things that made other games succesfull. If they just keep making H3 and H5 with better graphics the franchise will die. Now they are stuck inbetween with a resteicted budget.
If they kept doing that we'd atleast get good games.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
