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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 18, 2015 10:29 AM |
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Dies_Irae said:
There are several Bank-like map locations in H6, for instance:
- Hellgate
- Barbarian Camp
- Ruins
- Pyramid/Crypt (or something like that)
- Dragon Utopia (in SoD)
Thank goodness that in Heroes VII variety of buildings on adventure map will be increased. There were so few of them in Heroes VI. More importantly, I wish that variety among awards will be increased, as in Heroes VI all of these buildings felt actually the same, the only difference between them were exterior looks and contents of armies.
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted May 18, 2015 10:49 AM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Dies_Irae said:
There are several Bank-like map locations in H6, for instance:
- Hellgate
- Barbarian Camp
- Ruins
- Pyramid/Crypt (or something like that)
- Dragon Utopia (in SoD)
Thank goodness that in Heroes VII variety of buildings on adventure map will be increased. There were so few of them in Heroes VI. More importantly, I wish that variety among awards will be increased, as in Heroes VI all of these buildings felt actually the same, the only difference between them were exterior looks and contents of armies.
There are already 3 types of rewards in H6: resources, creatures (which proves particularly useless if you no longer have army slots available and the creatures you gain don't fit in right away, so that you need to remove one stack from you army first) and artefacts. What else could they contain? Hero learning a spell if the building in question is something magical? I think that could work. A scroll would fall into the 'artefact' category.
Admitted, the type of reward can vary. A Ruin may one time give resources, and in another map it grants creatures. Maybe it would be better if there are fixed rewards for fixed buildings, like in H3. A Griffin Conservatory would give Angels, for example. A Naga Bank or Medusa Stores would give gold and some sulfur. And if rewards grow with the army guarding the building, it may add something to one's hero and town development.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 18, 2015 01:50 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
Such a feature would be worth of returning to H7, but the question needs be: how fast does this army grow? How large is it from the start? I agree that if the army grows, so should the reward, to make clearing the structure indeed worthwhile.
I'd say it would depend on the difficulty setting, could be selectable via option menu before launch game. In example:
- neutral stack growth 1/2 every week
- neutral stack growth 1/5 every week
- neutral stack growth 1/10 every week
- neutral stack growth 1/12 every week
How large would the stacks be from the start would also depend on difficulty setting, and on the creatures level ofc. If it's core level creatures could start somewhere between lots and hordes, if elite level creatures between pack and lots, if champion level creatures between few and several.
Same kind of maths could be applied for the reward, so that it doesn't feel pointless or non-challenging to clear said buildings in late game as Lizard said.
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted May 18, 2015 04:28 PM |
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Galaad said:
Dies_Irae said:
Such a feature would be worth of returning to H7, but the question needs be: how fast does this army grow? How large is it from the start? I agree that if the army grows, so should the reward, to make clearing the structure indeed worthwhile.
I'd say it would depend on the difficulty setting, could be selectable via option menu before launch game. In example:
- neutral stack growth 1/2 every week
- neutral stack growth 1/5 every week
- neutral stack growth 1/10 every week
- neutral stack growth 1/12 every week
That would influence both the stack size on the Adventure Map as well as the guards in a building. Well, since those are neutrals too it would make sense. Being able to customize creature growth and neutral army strength is a good option. The latter one existed already in H5 and 3 at least. H6 brought creature growth (slow, normal, fast) to that too. Setting the first to fast and the latter to strong in H6 results in 999999 units in a stack at the beginning of Month 28  .
Anyway, back to Bank-buildings and rewards...I remember posting something on the SC about not being too much stuck in the past, but I think H3 has some things to teach 'us' here. The reward upon clearing a building actually depended on the size of the army defending it. A Griffin Conservatory gives you 1-3 angels, depending on the amount of Griffins (and/or the presence of one Royal Griffin stack). The resources obtained from a Cyclops Stockpile are actually equal to the amount of monsters in each Cyclops stack. And let's not forget the Crypt, which usually only contains gold, unless a stack of Vampires is present, in which case you also obtain an artefact. Furthermore, visiting a Crypt that has already been cleared, something you can't know until it is too late, lowers morale for the next combat. In H6 you could already see beforehand if a Bank-building had been cleared already. I would consider that a missed opportunity. Did H5 contain anything similar? I know there are these Warrior's Tombs, which we also saw in H3.
Yes, the past isn't all too bad, depending on where your preferences lie  .
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted May 18, 2015 04:44 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
I would like to see creature bank altered by the time passed. Id est: Banks' guards would increase every week/month and so would the reward. It was quite useless to mow down banks in late game due to having low rewards and being non-challenging compared to the giant army and resource stockpile you get by then. But that's not gonna happen
Yeah, bi-weekly grow (both guards & rewards) and reset after 28 days of cleaning them would add some life to the late game.
Oh well
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 18, 2015 04:59 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
In H6 you could already see beforehand if a Bank-building had been cleared already. I would consider that a missed opportunity. Did H5 contain anything similar? I know there are these Warrior's Tombs, which we also saw in H3.
In Heroes V you knew that the building was cleaned only after you came to visit it.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted May 18, 2015 05:07 PM |
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Why is there such a big (waste of) space on the right of every On/Off buttons? They could move them straight to the end of the line and keep all options with the same letter size :|
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 18, 2015 05:15 PM |
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Month 28 lol ... Set a growth cap then. Also, add option with no growth as well for those who might dislike it.
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted May 18, 2015 05:27 PM |
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Galaad said:
Month 28 lol ... Set a growth cap then. Also, add option with no growth as well for those who might dislike it.
You may wonder why I even bothered to forward to Month 28. It is, unfortunately, quite mandatory when one wishes to level up a DW to 5 in 25 minutes, instead of waiting 2 weeks for the Soul Forge to do the same. This takes place in the first mission of the Necro campaign, by the way.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 06:36 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
There are already 3 types of rewards in H6: resources, creatures (which proves particularly useless if you no longer have army slots available and the creatures you gain don't fit in right away, so that you need to remove one stack from you army first) and artefacts. What else could they contain? Hero learning a spell if the building in question is something magical? I think that could work. A scroll would fall into the 'artefact' category.
Learning a spell is a nice reward, but it sucks when you clear a pyramid and the spell you would've learned is of a school you don't know. Therefore I think it would be better to have scrolls that you can use as some kind of portable one time use mage guild (like those in H4), that are only usable when you have the correct skills. Then at least you can give the spell to a different hero that has the required skill (level).
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 06:45 PM |
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On the new skills:
Exploration unfortunately gives movement again, making this pretty much a mandatory skill. The grandmaster perk 'Familiar terrain' seems somewhat underwhelming though, unless this X% is a quite high number.
Leadership has some nice perks. I especially love outnumbering
Warfare seems like an interesting skill, but some of the perks don't really make sense to me. Shouldn't artillery also grant an additional shot/attack, making artillery barrage give you a third shot instead of two at once? Also this grandmaster ability is quite vague, until we know better how the warfare units work. I guess without warfare they are lvl 1, meaning they are lvl 4 with master warfare and lvl5 with grandmaster. But what do these levels give?
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 06:56 PM |
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Neutral stack growth is exponential (fixed percentage every week, such as 1/12 or 1/4). It was like that in all Heroes, and works well. Stacks will thus grow beyond any limits if they are not attacked, since the accumulated creature production (towns, dwellings) on a map eventually can grow only linearly. In practice, this may happen sometimes with high-level stacks in remote locations on an XL map.
But: for banks, if they grow, I'd propose to add a fixed amount per week, both in creatures and reward, linear growth. They should not possibly grow beyond limits like neutrals - otherwise, any bank reward would eventually outmatch town/mine production.
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The_Green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 07:00 PM |
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New skill perks are boring as usual. Literally nothing creative about them. I expected much better from warfare at least.
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted May 18, 2015 07:01 PM |
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Steyn said:
On the new skills:
Exploration unfortunately gives movement again, making this pretty much a mandatory skill. The grandmaster perk 'Familiar terrain' seems somewhat underwhelming though, unless this X% is a quite high number.
Leadership has some nice perks. I especially love outnumbering
Warfare seems like an interesting skill, but some of the perks don't really make sense to me. Shouldn't artillery also grant an additional shot/attack, making artillery barrage give you a third shot instead of two at once? Also this grandmaster ability is quite vague, until we know better how the warfare units work. I guess without warfare they are lvl 1, meaning they are lvl 4 with master warfare and lvl5 with grandmaster. But what do these levels give?
Artillery Barrage already enables your Warfare Units to shoot "3 times at once". What does that mean, anyway? Attack with 3 times the damage, or indeed 3 shots in a row?
I like all three, although the descriptions should really be rewritten someday because some are either extremely vague or a bit funny...like Navigation. I would only repeat my words from the SC here, so a link would do just fine
https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/skills-exploration-leadership-warfare#555a12030c75f7e371c67f58
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 07:04 PM |
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Funny: they recognize that Logistics is a strong ability and thus make it GM - but only on friendly areas of control ...? How often would the main hero need that?
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted May 18, 2015 07:11 PM |
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icefield said:
Funny: they recognize that Logistics is a strong ability and thus make it GM - but only on friendly areas of control ...? How often would the main hero need that?
I can think of only 2 situations.
- Multiplayer, where Player 1's main hero comes to Player 2's rescue and defeats an enemy that's roaming about 2's territory.
- The main hero portals back to the nearest town in order to defend there, or remains behind completely because secondary heroes are used to scout uncharted terrain first. That is what I tend to do in H6...
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gourley4p
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 07:17 PM |
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Outnumbering seems to have intriguing strategic implications. Would be nice to know how that works. Maybe it will be in the beta for me to test.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 18, 2015 07:25 PM |
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I'm interested in what level of Warfare Unit means. Otherwise, these are some pretty good skills.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 07:28 PM |
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Edited by TD at 19:41, 18 May 2015.
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The new skills:
Exploration:
Only adventure-map effects regarding movement + 1 ability for visibility. Seems very underwhelming to be honest, especially the GM(I doubt I would ever wanna play hero with it). Would probably just take the skill itself without abilities for main hero(the boosts would have to be huge for me to spend points on them(could maybe take snatch/navigation with pathfinding depending on map and the amount of movement points in the game).
Leadership:
Only tactics seems viable from novice. If you got leadership and still get bad morale you're doing something really wrong.
Expert outnumbering I hopefully misunderstood... So does that mean I can use 9 stacks in battle?!?!! For long game this would be absolute must have skill unless all towns on the map are same faction. If the ability only gives you chance to split 2 units it sounds rather useless(I very rarely have found myself in need of such thing)Rousing speech sounds like it's aimed for shorter games, not bad skill though(still no match for extra 2 stacks if they are permanent for army).
Leading by example could be good, in h6 it was very powerful ability while now it's passive for boost.
GM is another active ability turned passive, feels very unimpressive to be honest(since the game already has at least dark magic aoe -spells with percentage dmg not to mention it feels very similar to earth GM in a way).
Warfare:
Artillery if AI targetting sucks it's important, if AI is wise it's useless(or if warmachine targets heros targets for example). Durability sounds utterly useless. Swift deployment sounds fairly meaningless, but depending on the AI with Artillery it could be the one to go for.
Expert leaves no choice at all really, go for double shooting cata on main hero
Master triple shot, nothing really interesting IMO.
GM Since you use war machines and have this ability I would presume you will have maxed war machines at any rate... Would be nice to get proper explanation on level war machines, but doesn't sound one bit interesting ability
Overall:
Again same problems as I felt with skills in general of h7. You got clear abilities tailored for certain type heroes like governor, defender and attacker without really much of a choice. Many abilities I just see myself never taking based on the descriptions given, some I will dead-straight avoid and some I feel like I must have
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Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
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posted May 18, 2015 07:40 PM |
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Is it just me who consider skills description as unclear?...
Can someone explain "Outnumbering" mechanism? How exactly will it work?
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
