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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted May 18, 2015 07:42 PM |
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TD said:
in h6 it was very powerful ability while now it's passive for boost.
The only ability that comes to mind is Pressed Attack, but that works differently. You can only use it on one friendly stack at a time, and when this stack attacks, the Hero attacks first with increased damage (amount depending on your hero's reputation). Your stacks, however, won't deal extra damage against the enemy stack that got attacked by the hero  .
"Mark of the Heretic" (Haven-specific ability, at least for Might) does have this effect. Every enemy stack attacked by the hero is marked, so your units will inflict more damage against this marked stack.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 07:43 PM |
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Sempai said:
Is it just me who consider skills description as unclear?...
Can someone explain "Outnumbering" mechanism? How exactly will it work?
I see it as two options on how it works:
1. You get permanent 9 slots for troops
2. In battle when you have 7/7 slots in use you can do two extra splits.
If it's first it sounds incredibly OP. If it's latter I doubt I would go for it pretty much ever really.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 07:46 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
TD said:
in h6 it was very powerful ability while now it's passive for boost.
The only ability that comes to mind is Pressed Attack, but that works differently. You can only use it on one friendly stack at a time, and when this stack attacks, the Hero attacks first with increased damage (amount depending on your hero's reputation). Your stacks, however, won't deal extra damage against the enemy stack that got attacked by the hero .
"Mark of the Heretic" (Haven-specific ability, at least for Might) does have this effect. Every enemy stack attacked by the hero is marked, so your units will inflict more damage against this marked stack.
Yes, I meant the haven ability that gave some +50% atk or dmg. It required ability to be used to be in effect while now it's passive only requiring basic attack.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted May 18, 2015 08:03 PM |
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Edited by PandaTar at 20:04, 18 May 2015.
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TD said:
Sempai said:
Is it just me who consider skills description as unclear?...
Can someone explain "Outnumbering" mechanism? How exactly will it work?
I see it as two options on how it works:
1. You get permanent 9 slots for troops
2. In battle when you have 7/7 slots in use you can do two extra splits.
If it's first it sounds incredibly OP. If it's latter I doubt I would go for it pretty much ever really.
Actually, I think 7 might be the max you can have.
I remember seeing those battle maps with room enough to have only 5 large units. I don't think - although I might have a bit of doubts too - that people would be so thick as not to think a player would end up with 5 different stacks of large units at once and have no room for them in battle. This additional slot and room, would that be that the battle map would get bigger? There are many small details lingering and floating in limbo that are not explained, and it's been like that forever in SC.
Reinforcements, units simply spring out from nowhere regardless where you are? Such loyalty following the army up and down like that is admirable. It's implementation feels odd.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 18, 2015 08:09 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 22:00, 18 May 2015.
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TD said:
I see it as two options on how it works:
1. You get permanent 9 slots for troops
2. In battle when you have 7/7 slots in use you can do two extra splits.
It is definitely the second one, at least from what I understood from the text.
PS. Hybrid warfare unit is the catapult.
It is not. Hybrid warfare unit is a unit that combines both healing and attack Warfare unit.
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Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
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posted May 18, 2015 08:11 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
TD said:
I see it as two options on how it works:
1. You get permanent 9 slots for troops
2. In battle when you have 7/7 slots in use you can do two extra splits.
It is definitely the second one, at least from what I understood from the text.
PS. Hybrid warfare unit is the catapult.
Welp... 1 is completely OP, 2 is useless IMO.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 08:14 PM |
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TD said:
Sempai said:
Is it just me who consider skills description as unclear?...
Can someone explain "Outnumbering" mechanism? How exactly will it work?
I see it as two options on how it works:
1. You get permanent 9 slots for troops
2. In battle when you have 7/7 slots in use you can do two extra splits.
If it's first it sounds incredibly OP. If it's latter I doubt I would go for it pretty much ever really.
I interpreted it as option #2. I tend to split my ranged core stack, which is not possible any more with a full army. So for me this is a nice perk 
I could also see it come in handy against enemy scouts with a small army. Preferably you want to finish them before they run/cast a spell. For that being able to split archers or fast units that can reach the enemy lines 1st turn is an advantage.
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted May 18, 2015 08:19 PM |
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Why is it so hard to give abilities that also grant bonuses outside of the area of control?
I mean, i get it, the developers want to give players the incentive of trying to conquer as much area as possible to have the benefits of the skills, but that has the downside that you will return frequently to your area of control to gain those boosters.
In my humble opinion is that there should be abilities that trigger outside the area of control as well. That will make AoC abilities, Always On or Neutral abilities and Exploration or Non Area of Control abilities.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted May 18, 2015 08:45 PM |
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With regards to neutral stacks respawning, how about this idea?
The map maker designates certain spots on the map for a neutral camp (randomly chosen from different camps or set as a specific camp or so). The spot is invisible for the player during play the most time. After the game has advanced for a while, a "bandit camp" or "monster lair" is spawned at the designated spots - which could be on one of a few possible spots, too.
The timer for this can be set and can have a minimum and maximum value - like spawn at anytime between 7 and 21 days or so - as well as possible starting triggers ("only start spawning after guard at location X has been killed", "only start spawning after Town A is controlled by player Y", "only start spawning when player Z's gold first exceeds <gold_amount> Gold", etc...). It should also have ending or pause triggers, as needed ("stop spawning when the fort at location (N, M) is occupied", "stop spawning when player X has been defeated", etc...).
The spawned monster den or bandit lair will spawn and appear on the designated spot. It will have guards of the appropriate type, which will grow each week like any other neutral creature stack on the map. But this den or lair will also have something like an "area of control" of its own. As its power increases (number of guards accumulates), its area of influence increases too. This area is independent of Town and Fort Area of Control, but can compete with it. Each week, each eligible tile within the "area of control" has a certain chance to spawn a neutral stack of the corresponding creature type.
When the "area of control" overlaps a map resource like a mine controlled by a player, its production is halved or even halted completely, as long as the den/lair covers it. Defeating the guards at the central locus will destroy the den/lair, remove its "area of control", stop the spawning chance and return blocked map resources back to the player's control. Furthermore, the den/lair will yield a number of resources, possibly related to the resource locations occupied by the den/lair until its destruction.
Of course, after its destruction, the locus opens up for a future den/lair to spawn.
This way, map makers can for instance immitate a faction spawning rebels within another faction's territory, or nature running rampant until some crazy Druid is defeated. The possibilities are only limited by imagination .
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The_Green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 08:55 PM |
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So leadership ultimate will have the highest effect on core units. Just like the sick ultimates for attack and defense. So with heroes 7 skills an army of low tier creatures is just as good, maybe even better than an army of champions. 
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 18, 2015 09:07 PM |
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The_Green_drag said:
So leadership ultimate will have the highest effect on core units. Just like the sick ultimates for attack and defense. So with heroes 7 skills an army of low tier creatures is just as good, maybe even better than an army of champions.
This is why I strive for Limbic staying as the developer. We have three games published by Ubi, each developed by a different company and each of these games has to through an infant stage when it is horribly imbalanced, mostly because new developer has not enough experience to balance the game during pre-release period. Erwan was praising his cooperation with Lmbic and I hope that they will stay for a few next Heroes games. Otherwise we will have to get over a period of pulling our hair off because of bad dev decisions.
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gourley4p
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 09:08 PM |
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TD said:
I see it as two options on how it works:
1. You get permanent 9 slots for troops
2. In battle when you have 7/7 slots in use you can do two extra splits.
If it's first it sounds incredibly OP. If it's latter I doubt I would go for it pretty much ever really.
If it is option 2, I could see myself using it. In MMHVI, for instance, I often took a split stake of coral priestesses instead of one of the tier 2 units. If this skill would let me split my archers like that AND take the other unit, I am sure I could find some uses for it.
If option 1 is the meaning, I am guessing a combo of neutrals, home faction, and other factions could be beneficial at the cost of morale. That is where the other leadership skills would come in handy. I still would want to know more if this is the case, though, because it does sound as if it could be overpowered.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted May 18, 2015 10:29 PM |
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icefield said:
Neutral stack growth is exponential (fixed percentage every week, such as 1/12 or 1/4). It was like that in all Heroes, and works well. Stacks will thus grow beyond any limits if they are not attacked, since the accumulated creature production (towns, dwellings) on a map eventually can grow only linearly. In practice, this may happen sometimes with high-level stacks in remote locations on an XL map.
But: for banks, if they grow, I'd propose to add a fixed amount per week, both in creatures and reward, linear growth. They should not possibly grow beyond limits like neutrals - otherwise, any bank reward would eventually outmatch town/mine production.
Absolutely. When I posted above I was thinking on something like +50%, +40% of the original size (Guards and rewards) every 14 days. With a 28 day reset time, the optimal way would (most likely) be to clean the banks right after they reset, but if by any means it takes you some time to clean them, you may find a bigger challenge & reward (albeit not huge).
Steyn said:
Learning a spell is a nice reward, but it sucks when you clear a pyramid and the spell you would've learned is of a school you don't know. Therefore I think it would be better to have scrolls that you can use as some kind of portable one time use mage guild (like those in H4), that are only usable when you have the correct skills. Then at least you can give the spell to a different hero that has the required skill (level).
And yet another example of the level of maturity NWC had reached by that time. One can only wonder how H4 could have turned out had it started with full support.
Now I'm gonna cry
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 18, 2015 10:34 PM |
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted May 18, 2015 10:35 PM |
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Quote:
Absolutely. When I posted above I was thinking on something like +50%, +40% of the original size (Guards and rewards) every 14 days. With a 28 day reset time, the optimal way would (most likely) be to clean the banks right after they reset, but if by any means it takes you some time to clean them, you may find a bigger challenge & reward (albeit not huge).
IMO banks' guards should increase by a constant number each week (maybe even their normal growth in town+castle), and so would the reward. This way it's going to be balanced enough and neither the guards nor the reward will grow exponentially towards astronomic numbers.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 10:37 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Steyn said:
Learning a spell is a nice reward, but it sucks when you clear a pyramid and the spell you would've learned is of a school you don't know. Therefore I think it would be better to have scrolls that you can use as some kind of portable one time use mage guild (like those in H4), that are only usable when you have the correct skills. Then at least you can give the spell to a different hero that has the required skill (level).
And yet another example of the level of maturity NWC had reached by that time. One can only wonder how H4 could have turned out had it started with full support.
Now I'm gonna cry
Doesn't that just make it another artifact you could earn then? It's still just one of the "artifact, resource, or unit" you win. It's really not all that different.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 18, 2015 10:38 PM |
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Protolisk said:
Doesn't that just make it another artifact you could earn then? It's still just one of the "artifact, resource, or unit" you win. It's really not all that different.
It seems that in Heroes IV you were able to learn spells from scrolls unless they were used earlier. Just like in new "King's Bounty" games.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted May 18, 2015 10:45 PM |
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@Protolisk: it isn't an artifact per se. It's just another way of learning spells, a refined version of its predecessor.
LizardWarrior said:
IMO banks' guards should increase by a constant number each week (maybe even their normal growth in town+castle), and so would the reward. This way it's going to be balanced enough and neither the guards nor the reward will grow exponentially towards astronomic numbers.
So we agree then
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 18, 2015 10:50 PM |
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I think Reinforcements is too weak for a GM ability. 5% increase is nothing... You must have at least 20 units to get 1 as a bonus. That means that mostly core units will benefit from it. And 100 skeletons becoming 105 is alomst nothing, we are talking about GM ability here.
We should probably open a new topic for game balancing, because there is a lot of work in that direction...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 18, 2015 10:53 PM |
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Not particularly impressed with explorer.
Snatch is a perk that gives free movement with pretty much everything and it can be accessed right away. Okaay
Scouting, that traditionally crappy ability is.. tier 2. Not sold on this.
Pathfinding no movement penalty. At all? 
Rover will no doubt be good but kinda map dependent. If it works with stables it may even be overpowered.
Native terrain and familiar terrain overlap, I don't like this. Same ability, one for friendly heroes and one for main? I'm guessing most people will get native terrain on a secondary so that they can take advantage from both on the main hero. That crazy movement might be a force to be reckoned with assuming that familiar terrain turns out worth picking.
On leadership.
I am kinda glad they changed ambush to rousing speech. It actually makes sense now.
Outnumbering should turn out interesting. I'm sure hit&run abusers will love it  Otherwise it will be probably used to split support stacks to better effect.
Reinforcements is awesome. Would be happier if it was an active tactics ability that summons reinforcements though.
Resolution seems kinda crappy for a core ability. Hopefully morale reducing strategies will be viable, otherwise not much point to it.
Leading by example seems fine but.. doesn't feel much like a leadership ability to me.
Warfare.
Moving manual control from the basic skill to an ability seems lame. It is such an absolute must that it should be given by default. Would be nice if it gave an extra shot on offensive and hybrid machine.
Swift deployment should be good, probably your only chance to fire on fast enemy archers first. Runic warmachines was plain fun..
Siege warface at tier 2? Why?
Anyways the whole system could use a rework. Some nice abilities but.. sometimes they lack focus, could be combined or swap places. I already found the system structure to be meh, this isn't helping me change my opinion.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
I hope so...
