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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1635 pages long: 1 200 400 600 800 ... 825 826 827 828 829 ... 1000 1200 1400 1600 1635 · «PREV / NEXT»
icefield
icefield


Adventuring Hero
posted May 18, 2015 10:59 PM

About new skills.

Snatch: so a secondary can keep up with a fighting main
Native: for first-week cleaning.  Useful later only when chaining troops.
Navigation: if there's an ocean ...
Scouting: for scouts
Pathfinding: now that is important.
Rover: can be good, depends on the map
Familiar: purely defensive skill

Is this worthwhile for a fighting hero?  (well, pathfinding)

Tactics: a classic.
Resolution: excuse for bad battle preparation?
Patriot: Again, defensive
Outnumbering: Two extra 1-unit stacks for stealing retals, blocking shooters and luring out the enemy.  Handy if AI is dumb  Match-winner for H5-style 1-turn battles.
Rousing: a free blessing spell
Example: a curse spell
Reinforcements: effect depends on actual numbers, of course.

Overall, interesting perks for fighters.  If this is to be favored over the other might skills, we'll have to see.

Warfare skills: those collected perks from the H5 skill wheels - whether anything is useful, completely depends on the actual power of warmachines.

Looking at the various skills that have been revealed - it appears that some are preferred for offensive fighting heroes, some for heroes in town, some for secondaries.  I hope that the balancing process will mix them up a little bit more, or they add more.  Otherwise, choices for heroes won't be as varied as they could be.  For instance, most games don't see a hero built purely for defending.

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted May 18, 2015 11:02 PM

Am I the only one here that has a feeling that Limbic is exaggerating with lack of activated skills? I know, their overpresence is pretty bad but I have a feeling that currently devs are... afraid to give any activated skill at all. What do you think about that?

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icefield
icefield


Adventuring Hero
posted May 18, 2015 11:11 PM

Activated skills are ... well, spells.

I'm absolutely in favor of making most skills passive.  This is the difference between might and magic.  I didn't like the H5 way at all, where barbarian warcries and dwarf runes where just two extra spell schools.

H7 warcries are the exception from this rule: they are the previous mass spells, and they are boring but important.  Genuine magic should also be fun to use, so there's a reason to choose magic heroes.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 18, 2015 11:12 PM

Not like H5 skillwheel had many activated abilities either. Divine guidance on leadership, power of speed on attack etc..
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted May 18, 2015 11:13 PM

Pawek_13 said:
Am I the only one here that has a feeling that Limbic is exaggerating with lack of activated skills? I know, their overpresence is pretty bad but I have a feeling that currently devs are... afraid to give any activated skill at all. What do you think about that?


good. hero actives never made the game better.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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icefield
icefield


Adventuring Hero
posted May 18, 2015 11:25 PM

That might actually be an excellent combo: tactics + rousing + outnumbering = instantly blocking all shooters, then example on the power stack -- game over?  Better have some counters ...

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 18, 2015 11:26 PM

I just realized what I do not like about those abilities. They feel more like a random collage rather than anything, no sense of specialization.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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icefield
icefield


Adventuring Hero
posted May 18, 2015 11:32 PM

Elvin said:
I just realized what I do not like about those abilities. They feel more like a random collage rather than anything, no sense of specialization.


Isn't that because there are so few abilities, to be designed to cover so many aspects of the game?  And H5 had no governors, no need to please those.

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Hermes
Hermes


Famous Hero
posted May 19, 2015 01:40 AM
Edited by Hermes at 01:41, 19 May 2015.

Like the flavour of the new abilities, but regarding to the balance - ready to test it out in a few days !!

Overall I really like Exploration(first time for me to like it), and Leadership too. Reinforcements does seem a bit weak but numbers are easy to tweak during the beta.


Edit:

I think the whole system is a really good base system - lots of ways to add to it in Expansions(unlike H6 which demanded only an overhaul)

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Protolisk
Protolisk


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 19, 2015 05:30 AM

Just so I am reading Warfare correctly, unskilled should mean level 1 warfare units, novice is 2, expert is 3, master is 4, and the GM allows for the 5th level?

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Sorts
Sorts


Known Hero
posted May 19, 2015 06:51 AM

Protolisk said:
Just so I am reading Warfare correctly, unskilled should mean level 1 warfare units, novice is 2, expert is 3, master is 4, and the GM allows for the 5th level?


This gives a possibility (although its semi confirmed i think) that warfare units might have at elast different abilities.

I'm also suspecting that one thing will be the same. "Attack warfare units" getting second attack on master rank, with the ability granting the third.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 19, 2015 12:49 PM

Maurice said:
With regards to neutral stacks respawning, how about this idea?

The map maker designates certain spots on the map for a neutral camp (randomly chosen from different camps or set as a specific camp or so). The spot is invisible for the player during play the most time. After the game has advanced for a while, a "bandit camp" or "monster lair" is spawned at the designated spots - which could be on one of a few possible spots, too.

The timer for this can be set and can have a minimum and maximum value - like spawn at anytime between 7 and 21 days or so - as well as possible starting triggers ("only start spawning after guard at location X has been killed", "only start spawning after Town A is controlled by player Y", "only start spawning when player Z's gold first exceeds <gold_amount> Gold", etc...). It should also have ending or pause triggers, as needed ("stop spawning when the fort at location (N, M) is occupied", "stop spawning when player X has been defeated", etc...).

The spawned monster den or bandit lair will spawn and appear on the designated spot. It will have guards of the appropriate type, which will grow each week like any other neutral creature stack on the map. But this den or lair will also have something like an "area of control" of its own. As its power increases (number of guards accumulates), its area of influence increases too. This area is independent of Town and Fort Area of Control, but can compete with it. Each week, each eligible tile within the "area of control" has a certain chance to spawn a neutral stack of the corresponding creature type.

When the "area of control" overlaps a map resource like a mine controlled by a player, its production is halved or even halted completely, as long as the den/lair covers it. Defeating the guards at the central locus will destroy the den/lair, remove its "area of control", stop the spawning chance and return blocked map resources back to the player's control. Furthermore, the den/lair will yield a number of resources, possibly related to the resource locations occupied by the den/lair until its destruction.

Of course, after its destruction, the locus opens up for a future den/lair to spawn.

This way, map makers can for instance immitate a faction spawning rebels within another faction's territory, or nature running rampant until some crazy Druid is defeated. The possibilities are only limited by imagination .


I like it.
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DierdreOfAmber
DierdreOfAmber


Hired Hero
posted May 19, 2015 01:42 PM

ninjata12 said:
I think Reinforcements is too weak for a GM ability. 5% increase is nothing... You must have at least 20 units to get 1 as a bonus. That means that mostly core units will benefit from it. And 100 skeletons becoming 105 is alomst nothing, we are talking about GM ability here.

We should probably open a new topic for game balancing, because there is a lot of work in that direction...


Well, let's say you have an army of 100 Legionaries, 100 crossbowmen, 80 wolves, 60 abbots, 60 justicars, 40 cuirassiers and 20 celestials. That makes 5 Legionnaries, 5 crossbowmen, 4 wolves, 3 justicars, 3 abbots, 2 cuirassiers and 1 celestials. That's 23 units with 1 champ, 8 elites and 14 cores.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 19, 2015 04:11 PM
Edited by Elvin at 16:12, 19 May 2015.

Excellent, another Zelazny fan in the forums Corwin's cycle is probably my favourite series.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 19, 2015 04:14 PM
Edited by Galaad at 16:14, 19 May 2015.

Elvin said:
Excellent, another Zelazny fan in the forums Corwin's cycle is probably my favourite series.

I liked that character named Random.
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KingImp
KingImp


Famous Hero
posted May 19, 2015 04:45 PM

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I don't follow along as closely as I used to.

Has there been any mention of them bringing back creatures spawning on the map during the special "week of insert creature" yet?

While it's nice to get an increase in creature production from this week, I used to love seeing them spawn around the map so there were extra fights or potential joining opportunities once the map had been cleared of previous creatures.

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husham123
husham123


Famous Hero
Yes
posted May 19, 2015 04:48 PM

I don't have that much opinions, or I don't have any.
The reason is simple:I don't have Heroes 7.
I will wait 'til is released, and going to play looooooooots, and even document myself of it, so I can help.
Also, maybe my last post today.
____________
What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret

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icefield
icefield


Adventuring Hero
posted May 19, 2015 06:06 PM

@Maurice: the concept is interesting.  I fear that shifting and overlapping zones are a bit beyond the leval of map complexity that fits a Heroes game.  But, simplifying a bit, one could demand that bandits' lairs and spawned stacks can appear with their own (fixed) zones outside all town areas of control, in neutral territory.  Town areas are unaffected (except perhaps in specific 'weeks of rebels' , so choke points within a player's homeground won't accidentally become blocked.

Just speculating.  Everything can be scripted anyway, if the map maker invests some work.  But the idea shows that the area-of-control concept has some potential.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted May 19, 2015 09:09 PM

icefield said:
I fear that shifting and overlapping zones are a bit beyond the leval of map complexity that fits a Heroes game.


It works in Age of Wonders, actually. Towns have an area of influence that grows as the town increases in size. I do realize that the area of a bandit lair would likely have to be represented in a way that really distinguishes it from the standard Town and Fort area of control - especially when it starts to overlap. However, the overlap is pretty much mandatory if you would also want such a lair to block mine income for the owning player.

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DierdreOfAmber
DierdreOfAmber


Hired Hero
posted May 19, 2015 09:20 PM

Elvin said:
Excellent, another Zelazny fan in the forums Corwin's cycle is probably my favourite series.


I actually think Lord of Light is a better book (maybe his best), but ADRP is just so damn fun!

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