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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 14, 2015 01:16 AM |
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Sandro400 said:
I'm missing the days when the discussions were held between Stevie, WO, Avonu, DJ, even Galaad!
YES! My arguments were always the very best!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 01:19 AM |
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Sandro400 said:
I'm missing the days when the discussions were held between Stevie, WO, Avonu, DJ, even Galaad! Never thought I'd become nostalgic of Stevie... I miss constructive arguments!
I'm not dead yet, lol
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted June 14, 2015 01:27 AM |
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verriker said:
hey, who are you calling lol-a-lot lol
Pick your guess. 
It's like Lancelot, only Lolalot. Lola. Lot. Hm...
Galaad said:
YES! My arguments were always the very best!
This is an example argument compared to some I've witnessed recently.
Stevie said:
I'm not dead yet, lol
You don't have to be dead to induce nostalgia. H3's not dead as well. 
P.S.: I knew you were lurking!
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted June 14, 2015 06:37 AM |
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Came back after a few days. Sees that the scum and fiflth came floating back up again.
Sad that this forum isn't a space for everybodies opinion anymore :-(.. again....
Just wanted to say, that I got access to the beta. And preformance issues aside (Can't really comment on bugs since I can't even believe the game runs on my deep below minimum req. PC)
The game as a concept, which is what I was looking forward to explore, fits my personal expectations and needs sofar.
It is a bug ridden crash fest with gliches, poor AI and balance. Badly needs more variaty in units, maps, and a re-worked GUI. But it is a Beta. Idividual parts of the game if polished may make this a good game for me.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted June 14, 2015 07:19 AM |
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Ok.. since the topic of "originality" and who copied what from whom is up again. I decided to share some of my thoughts, which are not directly, but still connected to the topic.
I was thinking why I like the Ashan setting. I know it is not original, but what is. I think most of the games have a badly written story, even if the ideas behind them are OK-ish. The setting fails to create original interesting characters, re-using new incarnation of older ones, and if the do, they are a pain for my taste.
So what is it that makes me look up the lore and dive into it. Is it the brand? Well if it is, any world would do? Is it due to the fact that I like fantasy so much. The problem is that I don't like High fantasy. I never played WoW, I never felt interested in WH, I like Dark fantasy like Sapkowski or Mythological fantasy in the lines of Fighting Fantasy game books. So why? Why feel so engaged in a game world, that has so many flaws that it is hard to find enough positives to balance it out.
Well, the answer is actually in the last paragraph:
I never was a High fantasy fan! But I knew it existed, and I was influenced by it.
I remember, when heroes V was coming out, I looked at the published artwork and thought to myself "Yea! thats how a battle priest should look like", oblivious at that time to the bland WH ripp-of it was. Now I know much better, but still I can't help but to like the setting. Why? It is my guilty pleasure. My trashy, poorly written, cheaply copied, uninspired and barely original High fantasy setting. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Like I said, Blizzard's Warcraft world never pulled me in, Warhammer just didn't tickle my toes. Ashan filled this niesh in my. And this due to two facts:
1: I generally like M&M games gameplay (except H4 and 6)
2: As the freak I am, I get committed to the thinks I like.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 07:50 AM |
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Dave_Jame said:
WarHammer just didn't tickle my toes. Ashan filled this niesh in my. And due to two facts:
1: I generally M&M games gameplay (except H4 and 6)
2: As the freak I am, I get committed to the thinks I like.
3: Ashan is a lot more accessible than Warhammer.
Seriously, in watching a bunch of lore videos for Warhammer (ostensibly to bring me up to speed on the setting / potential of the recently announced Total War Warhammer), I discovered two things (not counting the Dungeon similarities):
1: Warhammer feels comparably more dense than Ashan, if mainly on account of Ashan being a young setting without decades of ongoing lore.
2: HOLY SNOW THE INVESTMENT (BOTH TIME AND COST) TO GET INTO THE TABLETOP GAME! 
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted June 14, 2015 09:25 AM |
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Kimarous said:
1: Warhammer feels comparably more dense than Ashan, if mainly on account of Ashan being a young setting without decades of ongoing lore.
2: HOLY SNOW THE INVESTMENT (BOTH TIME AND COST) TO GET INTO THE TABLETOP GAME!
1. I don't think it's a problem with densness rather than Ashan being a poorly concieved, poorly deveoped not-at-all thought out concept of a world. If Ashan were a tabeltop world it would probably be in it's "alpha testing" phase.
2. You do realize that there are dozens of other tabletop worlds outside WH and DnD that are way more accessible and come at a fifth of the price as GW models. Not to mention there is a thing called The Black Library where you can buy 15 books of usually well written WH stories(unlike wh40k) for the price of one miniature.
To be hones the WH universum is a lot more accessible than it looks. You can start with any book and not feel left clueless unless you start with the new End Times books which look to cataclismicly change the world.
My only real problem with Ashan is not that it is particularly poor rather than the fact that I know what it could be if well developed but it fails time after time in pulling me in. In fact as time goes on I like it less and less which is a really hard achievement.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 14, 2015 10:48 AM |
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Dave_Jame said:
It is my guilty pleasure. My trashy, poorly written, cheaply copied, uninspired and barely original High fantasy setting. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
 
this i can agree with. Ashan kinda sucks, but i can't say i don't find some enjoyment in its trashiness.
Sandro400 said:
Complaining that Ashan Demons are not Aliens (ALIENS!) compared to Kreegans, while they're effectively the same aliens to Ashan as Kreegans are to Enroth?
Yeah, but they live in the core of the molten earth, were made as an antithesis to the local god and embody "chaos". Doesn't get more "demony" than that.
Kreegans were more or less mistaken (by the fans, lol) for demons when they were really part of an alien invasion. Hardly the same thing 
keep in mind that i like the Ashan demons. One can like something without finding them interesting.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 03:02 PM |
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NWC's world of the early MaMs wasn't intended to be consistent, original, or anything like that. Just play MaM3 or Xeen - there is story and backstory, but it essentially serves as an excuse for anything and anybody to appear in-game as a monster of hero. Nobody cared abouth shameless copies.
And that's because everything was there for fun - of the developers and of players. I don't believe that they took anything in their early games seriously.
The later MaM and Heroes sequels did introduce much more story content, and it became difficult for NWC to keep up with that. SF stuff in MaM but not in HoMM. But Ubi's Ashan is much worse. Everything has to fit in a closed world, everything has to be explained. Every game and graphics designer has to adhere to a code. Big mistake.
They can still correct this. If they just stop taking their own world so seriously, open the world for new creations (copies or orignal), tone down the dragon-god dogma, Ashan can also become a fun setting for a game. The gameplay of Heroes doesn't resemble anything real, anyway.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 14, 2015 03:19 PM |
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icefield said:
NWC's world of the early MaMs wasn't intended to be consistent, original, or anything like that. Just play MaM3 or Xeen - there is story and backstory, but it essentially serves as an excuse for anything and anybody to appear in-game as a monster of hero. Nobody cared abouth shameless copies.
And that's because everything was there for fun - of the developers and of players. I don't believe that they took anything in their early games seriously.
The later MaM and Heroes sequels did introduce much more story content, and it became difficult for NWC to keep up with that. SF stuff in MaM but not in HoMM. But Ubi's Ashan is much worse. Everything has to fit in a closed world, everything has to be explained. Every game and graphics designer has to adhere to a code. Big mistake.
They can still correct this. If they just stop taking their own world so seriously, open the world for new creations (copies or orignal), tone down the dragon-god dogma, Ashan can also become a fun setting for a game. The gameplay of Heroes doesn't resemble anything real, anyway.
I... agree, actually. They just have to try using imagination, supported by creativity and some artistic works, namely books.
Also, Ubi and devs should read this.
One should NEVER release a game because they HAVE TO. If they focus and think like a common Heroes fan, then they may just succeed in making a better game.
But no, they claim they have no vision how Heroes games should look like, but who cares about logic and release them anyways.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 03:43 PM |
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I find it ridiculous to fight over which HoMM games are original when the whole idea of HoMM is to copy fantasy creatures and make interesting factions out of them.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted June 14, 2015 05:48 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Yeah, but they live in the core of the molten earth, were made as an antithesis to the local god and embody "chaos". Doesn't get more "demony" than that.
Kreegans were more or less mistaken (by the fans, lol) for demons when they were really part of an alien invasion. Hardly the same thing
They live in the core of the planet because they were banished there. Urgash knows where he first created them and send them to Ashan. To me, they're the same aliens, even with similar goal - exterminate the world or populate it in "alien" forms of life. What's the difference if they're Demon aliens or simply aliens?
You do know that, for example, in H3 only top guys (Devils etc) were Kreegans, don't you?.. Others are, well, demons. And others are, well, majority.
Though you made a very good point: Kreegans were mistaken by the fans themselves for Demons. Ask yourself whose fault it is. A hint: not fans. A Heroes player will never even suspect sci-fi elements if he hasn't played/heard of M&M RPGs. And remember what happened when they tried to do Forge faction.
Then ask yourself how many guys out there really prefer sci-fi over pure fantasy.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 06:08 PM |
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icefield said:
They can still correct this. If they just stop taking their own world so seriously, open the world for new creations (copies or orignal), tone down the dragon-god dogma, Ashan can also become a fun setting for a game. The gameplay of Heroes doesn't resemble anything real, anyway.
I dunno. I think they could take a few more ques from Dragon's Dogma.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted June 14, 2015 06:16 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
You do know that, for example, in H3 only top guys (Devils etc) were Kreegans, don't you?.. Others are, well, demons. And others are, well, majority.
citation needed,
it's unclear about Imps, Cerberi are beasts, and Gogs and Efreeti come from the Fire Plane, but the Demons and Pit Fiends are probably Kreegans just like the Devils lol
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 06:26 PM |
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verriker said:
Sandro400 said:
You do know that, for example, in H3 only top guys (Devils etc) were Kreegans, don't you?.. Others are, well, demons. And others are, well, majority.
citation needed,
it's unclear about Imps, Cerberi are beasts, and Gogs and Efreeti come from the Fire Plane, but the Demons and Pit Fiends are probably Kreegans just like the Devils lol
For once, I'm siding with verriker here. When I finally accepted that Kreegans were supposed to be aliens, I concluded "demon portals are basically Stargates."
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 14, 2015 06:30 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
They live in the core of the planet because they were banished there. Urgash knows where he first created them and send them to Ashan. To me, they're the same aliens, even with similar goal - exterminate the world or populate it in "alien" forms of life. What's the difference if they're Demon aliens or simply aliens.
Actually, if I remember correctly, there was this Inferno town that mentioned in its biography Urgash created demons from a stone, obsidian, or something. Definitively not from outer space.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted June 14, 2015 06:30 PM |
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verriker said:
citation needed,
it's unclear about Imps, Cerberi are beasts, and Gogs and Efreeti come from the Fire Plane, but the Demons and Pit Fiends are probably Kreegans just like the Devils lol
Creegans are collectively known as the Devils...
If you'd read my post carefully (again you didn't), you would've noticed "etc" after "Devils". Pit Lords, iirc, are Kreegans too, but simple Demons do not look like them. More like half-human half-rats reffered to as Demons.
What I meant is that only top brass of H3 Inferno can be called Kreegans. That's a little part of the faction.
EnergyZ said:
Actually, if I remember correctly, there was this Inferno town that mentioned in its biography Urgash created demons from a stone, obsidian, or something. Definitively not from outer space.
1) It was in H5, may no longer be canon, as well as Mal-Beleth, Kha-Beleth's predecessor (who turned out to be just another of his names).
2) It was a legend (even from within the universe).
3) Are stone/obsidian exclusive for Ashan?..
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted June 14, 2015 07:05 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Creegans are collectively known as the Devils...
If you'd read my post carefully (again you didn't), you would've noticed "etc" after "Devils". Pit Lords, iirc, are Kreegans too, but simple Demons do not look like them. More like half-human half-rats reffered to as Demons.
yes I did lol, and took it that you meant Devils and Arch Devils lol
Efreeti are also in the top brass but they are not Kreegans lol
the Kreegans are not only called the devils, but also the demons, the devil Kreegan, the Kreegan demons, and all and sundry lol
your "half rat" demons and greater demons in H3 are very, very clearly implied to be Kreegans lol
there are also other demons in the Underworld who attacked Erathia in Tarnum's day, but they are just represented by the H3 Inferno, they are not in its canon lineup lol
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 14, 2015 07:11 PM |
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The fact that the ubi demons have their entire origin and history written out is a reason they can't be seen as "aliens". I see your point but since they're not actually from outer space...
eh.
Kimarous said:
I dunno. I think they could take a few more ques from Dragon's Dogma.
everything needs to take more ques from from Dragons Dogma
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 09:08 PM |
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xerox said:
I find it ridiculous to fight over which HoMM games are original when the whole idea of HoMM is to copy fantasy creatures and make interesting factions out of them.
Exactly! I hold the same opinion.
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