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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted June 14, 2015 10:01 PM |
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lokdron said:
xerox said:
I find it ridiculous to fight over which HoMM games are original when the whole idea of HoMM is to copy fantasy creatures and make interesting factions out of them.
Exactly! I hold the same opinion.
+1
Problem beeing, nobody told Erwan 'bout that. 
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted June 14, 2015 11:09 PM |
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verriker said:
yes I did lol, and took it that you meant Devils and Arch Devils lol
Efreeti are also in the top brass but they are not Kreegans lol
the Kreegans are not only called the devils, but also the demons, the devil Kreegan, the Kreegan demons, and all and sundry lol
your "half rat" demons and greater demons in H3 are very, very clearly implied to be Kreegans lol
there are also other demons in the Underworld who attacked Erathia in Tarnum's day, but they are just represented by the H3 Inferno, they are not in its canon lineup lol
Then I guess we had a little misunderstanding here. ^_^
But Efreeti are clearly not Kreegans, saying that tob brass are Kreegans does not mean that all of the tob brass are Kreegans exclusively. And while Efreeti are powerful creatures, I doubt that they had great political influence in Eofol.
Well, now, I want to hear as well why do you think H3 Demons are Kreegans as well. I'm now curious myself, as we've never seen those "demons" again and they pretty much don't look like Kreegans.
Nice piece of trivia, though I never mentioned them. ^_^
kiryu133 said:
The fact that the ubi demons have their entire origin and history written out is a reason they can't be seen as "aliens". I see your point but since they're not actually from outer space...
Pardon me, but... WHAAAAAT?
Alien, by definition of the word, means that the creature is not from planet X, but was from planet Y. By your criteria, Zergs are not aliens. Even Aliens from the renown Alien franchise are not aliens!
And once again I'm telling you that the birthplace of Demons is unknown. They may well be from outer space. Urgash travelled a lot and enjoyed his God powers while Asha was creating the world.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted June 15, 2015 12:11 AM |
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Sandro400 said:
But Efreeti are clearly not Kreegans, saying that tob brass are Kreegans does not mean that all of the tob brass are Kreegans exclusively. And while Efreeti are powerful creatures, I doubt that they had great political influence in Eofol.
although not the dominant race I'm sure they had some pull, they were said to be the allies/peers of the Kreegans rather than underlings, several of them were heroes in charge of the Eeofol armies, definitely much more influential than the imps and gogs anyway lol
Sandro400 said:
Well, now, I want to hear as well why do you think H3 Demons are Kreegans as well. I'm now curious myself, as we've never seen those "demons" again and they pretty much don't look like Kreegans.
because of the exact same logic as why we say the H3 and H4 Devils are Kreegans, there is no text directly stating this,
but you can assume it because the Kreegans are constantly called the devils and demons, and because Greg Fulton said "many people forget the Inferno is not populated by demons. It's populated by aliens who look like demons" lol
saying they don't look like the Kreegans is a bit lame because there are many types of Kreegans, winged Kreegans, breeder Kreegans, Kreegans with forks for arms, I mean even the Devils don't look a whole lot like other Kreegans in the games either lol
the H3 demons are actually also in H4, because many of the H3 Inferno heroes are the demons, and H4 states that that those so-called "demon" heroes are really Kreegans lol
Sandro400 said:
And once again I'm telling you that the birthplace of Demons is unknown. They may well be from outer space. Urgash travelled a lot and enjoyed his God powers while Asha was creating the world.
I bet you they are from the same planet Jassad Attqua came from in his easter egg lol
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 15, 2015 12:31 AM |
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Sandro400 said:
Pardon me, but... WHAAAAAT?
Alien, by definition of the word, means that the creature is not from planet X, but was from planet Y. By your criteria, Zergs are not aliens. Even Aliens from the renown Alien franchise are not aliens!
And once again I'm telling you that the birthplace of Demons is unknown. They may well be from outer space. Urgash travelled a lot and enjoyed his God powers while Asha was creating the world.
That was mostly a joke about space-fearers being much more interesting than demons.
Ubi demons are not strangers. They've been a vital part of Ashan lore for centuries and everyone and their grandmother knows someone who's made deals with them. They're not unknown or alien in any way. Kreegans are a completely new and alien threat to antagarich. Nothing like them had existed before and being from space just reinforces that. They're aliens. Ubi demons are not. I see what you mean: strangers coming to conquer could certainly be alien in nature except they're not really strangers.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted June 15, 2015 01:09 AM |
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verriker said:
definitely much more influential than the imps and gogs anyway
On that I can agree. 
verriker said:
saying they don't look like the Kreegans is a bit lame because there are many types of Kreegans, winged Kreegans, breeder Kreegans, Kreegans with forks for arms, I mean even the Devils don't look a whole lot like other Kreegans in the games either
Well, then let me say that H3 Demons (for me) don't look like Kreegans even considering their variety. They really look like half-humans half-rats.
It hurts that we don't have any explicit info about them. This question now really became interested for me.
verriker said:
the H3 demons are actually also in H4, because many of the H3 Inferno heroes are the demons, and H4 states that that those so-called "demon" heroes are really Kreegans lol
Pardon me, but where did you found H3 Demons in H4?.. Infernopolis doesn't have any Demons at all. Imps, Hounds and "Devils".
Were Rat Demons present in RPG series, somewhere in Kreegan hive?
verriker said:
I bet you they are from the same planet Jassad Attqua came from in his easter egg lol
What is your bet? ^_^
kiryu133 said:
Ubi demons are not strangers. They've been a vital part of Ashan lore for centuries and everyone and their grandmother knows someone who's made deals with them. They're not unknown or alien in any way. Kreegans are a completely new and alien threat to antagarich. Nothing like them had existed before and being from space just reinforces that. They're aliens. Ubi demons are not. I see what you mean: strangers coming to conquer could certainly be alien in nature except they're not really strangers.
It seems you have your own definition of some words, it makes our discussion very difficult.
One last try. As Kreegans were a new threat to Enroth, Demons were to Ashan, when it was young. Later Kreegans became an existing, not new, threat for Enroth, as time passed. Just as Demons became for Ashan, after their utter, but not complete, defeat. And yes, Chaos creatures are complete strangers to the world of Order and it's people. And yes, they even live in separate Prison (separated both physically and spiritually).
Also keep in mind that, for example, humans of Enroth are the same alien species to Kreegans as well. Alien is a very respective term. A Human in Sheogh will also be an "alien" (Aidan comes to my mind).
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted June 15, 2015 01:46 AM |
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Sandro400 said:
Pardon me, but where did you found H3 Demons in H4?.. Infernopolis doesn't have any Demons at all. Imps, Hounds and "Devils".
like I said, in the hero pool, lol, several of the heroes whose race was classified as "demon" in Heroes 3 carry over into Heroes 4, the game where Kreegan and demon are completely interchangeable terms lol
Sandro400 said:
Were Rat Demons present in RPG series, somewhere in Kreegan hive?
no, not at all, but there are ratmen, if you are into that sort of thing lol
Sandro400 said:
What is your bet? ^_^
a wheel of rotten Wensleydale cheese lol
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted June 15, 2015 02:31 AM |
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I want Ash to comeback so much. Bish was rocking dat Farah Fawcett in H3
and then the consecuences of having the Farah Fawcett during the Apocalypse on H4
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 15, 2015 08:44 AM |
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Zeki said:
lokdron said:
xerox said:
I find it ridiculous to fight over which HoMM games are original when the whole idea of HoMM is to copy fantasy creatures and make interesting factions out of them.
Exactly! I hold the same opinion.
+1
Problem beeing, nobody told Erwan 'bout that.
Fully agreed, this simple statement actually holds a key to understanding why so many of us dislike the changes done in artstyle of the more recent games.
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What will happen now?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 15, 2015 09:28 AM |
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Because recent games focused to much on racial the thematics?
(Hello Fortress)
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted June 15, 2015 09:51 AM |
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Sandro400 said:
Pardon me, but... WHAAAAAT?
Alien, by definition of the word, means that the creature is not from planet X, but was from planet Y.
You're saying Mexicans can't be aliens? 
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted June 15, 2015 10:08 AM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 10:10, 15 Jun 2015.
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xerox said:
Because recent games focused to much on racial the thematics?
(Hello Fortress)
A 2015 consequence.. Damn it time!! Y u no stand still?????
I like themes to be honest,amd the fact that every faction feels distinct from the others is smth I really like.
GenyaArikado said:
I want Ash to comeback so much. Bish was rocking dat Farah Fawcett in H3
Bad mouthed or not,this comment stole my heart!
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted June 15, 2015 10:17 AM |
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Sandro400 said:
Pardon me, but where did you found H3 Demons in H4?.. Infernopolis doesn't have any Demons at all. Imps, Hounds and "Devils".
There were Ice Demons (neutral as i remember).
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted June 15, 2015 12:52 PM |
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verriker said:
like I said, in the hero pool, lol, several of the heroes whose race was classified as "demon" in Heroes 3 carry over into Heroes 4, the game where Kreegan and demon are completely interchangeable terms lol
Did H3 state the races of the Heroes? Can't remember that.
Anyway, none of H3 Heroes look like Demon units (rat-heads). More like Incubus/Succubus, especially in Ash's case. I can even accept that they're Kreegans (which is the most likely possibility).
verriker said:
no, not at all, but there are ratmen, if you are into that sort of thing lol
That's sad, their appearance in RPG series might have sold our disagreement.
It seems none of us have 100% solid arguments. Let's agree to disagree?
Avirosb said:
You're saying Mexicans can't be aliens?
I believe in this case the term "stranger" is more fitting, if you're suggesting a Mexican in China, for example. But for the Mars Mexicans are aliens for sure.
Macron1 said:
There were Ice Demons (neutral as i remember).
AFAIK there's no connection (aside from them being melee and share a "Demons" part of their names) between H3 Demons and Ice Demons. I don't even think Ice Demons are Kreegans, more something like Gogs.
Still, we're talking about rat-head Demons here.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted June 15, 2015 01:18 PM |
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Edited by Macron1 at 13:22, 15 Jun 2015.
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Sandro400 said:
AFAIK there's no connection (aside from them being melee and share a "Demons" part of their names) between H3 Demons and Ice Demons. I don't even think Ice Demons are Kreegans, more something like Gogs.
Still, we're talking about rat-head Demons here.
I was mistaken, Ice Demons belong to Necropolis and are bought in Ice Gate:
http://mightandmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Ice_demon
Do you think they are not Kreegans?
I think they have many in common:
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 15, 2015 01:39 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 13:41, 15 Jun 2015.
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Axeoth appears to have actual demons or extraterrestrials different from the Kreegans. quite interesting to be certain (i mean the venom spawn is supposedly a demon and that thing is certainly not related to the Kreegans).
Sandro400 said:
It seems you have your own definition of some words, it makes our discussion very difficult.
nah, i think we just disagree on whether Ubi demons fill the criteria. You say they do, i don't seeing as they've had a large presence in the world since the beginning.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted June 15, 2015 03:11 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Axeoth appears to have actual demons or extraterrestrials different from the Kreegans. quite interesting to be certain (i mean the venom spawn is supposedly a demon and that thing is certainly not related to the Kreegans).
Venom spawn is definitly a creature from MM7 (or MM8), which was called like "horror" or something (don't remember, i didnt played it). It's just changed color to green from red/brown/deep blue.
Dont think they are kreegans
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted June 15, 2015 04:03 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Did H3 state the races of the Heroes? Can't remember that.
it did indeed lol
Sandro400 said:
Anyway, none of H3 Heroes look like Demon units (rat-heads). More like Incubus/Succubus, especially in Ash's case.
nor do they look like the Kreegans from Might and Magic, but, they are the Kreegans, so it's just a matter of art direction really lol
like how the Orcs changed from green guys to pig men in the games, they are still the Orcs, it's just different art lol
kiryu133 said:
Axeoth appears to have actual demons or extraterrestrials different from the Kreegans. quite interesting to be certain (i mean the venom spawn is supposedly a demon and that thing is certainly not related to the Kreegans).
it is related to them, you can see them on one of the worlds the Kreegans conquered in the Gauldoth campaign lol
Macron1 said:
Venom spawn is definitly a creature from MM7 (or MM8), which was called like "horror" or something (don't remember, i didnt played it).
lol
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 15, 2015 04:40 PM |
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verriker said:
it is related to them, you can see them on one of the worlds the Kreegans conquered in the Gauldoth campaign lol
so they're like assimilated into the Kreegans but not Kreegans originally? man that's cool and opens up so many possibilities 
...that we'll never see 
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 15, 2015 05:04 PM |
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Quote:
Did H3 state the races of the Heroes? Can't remember that.
It did. There were some in the gameplay, but for all of them there is that game manual file, obtained when installing H3 or its counterparts.
However, speaking about the races, I remember that the Armageddon's Blade manual mentions Xeron being an efreet, while in the campaign it is mentioned Xeron is a child of a succubus and a human, being a half-human half-devil (watching you, Sareth).
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted June 15, 2015 05:09 PM |
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Edited by Macron1 at 17:15, 15 Jun 2015.
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verriker said:
Macron1 said:
Venom spawn is definitly a creature from MM7 (or MM8), which was called like "horror" or something (don't remember, i didnt played it).
lol
What the lol? Everyone can see sprites of monsters from MM, even ones not played it.
Creature called Fear/Terror/Nightmare:
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
