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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted June 13, 2015 11:06 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Storm-Giant said:
Let's not include Infernopolis there 
I do pretty much fully agree on the rest though ^^
as a concept for "death" it was pretty awesome even if the town/lineup itself wasn't.
Care to extrapolate? Were do you see the dissonance between the concept and the execution? How do you think it could have been handled better?
Datapack said:
Storm-Giant said:
Let's not include Infernopolis there
Welp, it is still better than what H6 and 7 has to offer.
Aside from the two-headed Orthus "Cerberus" and the organic buildings, I'm rather fond of H6's Inferno, at least with regards to design.
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Genyaarikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted June 13, 2015 11:18 PM |
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"H5 had..." they know many people didnt like the sylvan/dungeon towns having too much elves and they lowered the number to two. The Nature towns were elven towns tho. Ontop of that they literally said that pretty much retconned the aesthetics of that game and you keep bringing it up.
"We didnt know what they worshipped" but we do in Ashan and your point boils down to "i dislike it so it's forced and it sucks even if that's just what happened irl lol"
"non-sensical explanations" funny comment about a fantasy game. But if you consider drinking the blood/venom of a time/destiny/space goddess making you lose years and look younger completely non-sensical it's not Ubi's fault. By your logic the kreegans should be as non-sensical
"Omg i dislike dark elves so they'r cliche and overdone, evil magicians are much much much more original right Saruman?"
H4 made a mess of an inferno/necro town if that's what you mean by chaos lol
The only game that literally plagied stuff was H3 (the gnoll, the beholder and the gorgon). Deal with it.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 13, 2015 11:18 PM |
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Kimarous said:
kiryu133 said:
Storm-Giant said:
Let's not include Infernopolis there
I do pretty much fully agree on the rest though ^^
as a concept for "death" it was pretty awesome even if the town/lineup itself wasn't.
Care to extrapolate? Were do you see the dissonance between the concept and the execution? How do you think it could have been handled better?
My guess is that they did well with abilities, heroes and creatures, just they shouldn't have mixed together.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 13, 2015 11:18 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 23:32, 13 Jun 2015.
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Genyaarikado said:
"H5 had..." they know many people didnt like the sylvan/dungeon towns having too much elves and they lowered the number to two. The Nature towns were elven towns tho. Ontop of that they literally said that pretty much retconned the aesthetics of that game and you keep bringing it up.
"We didnt know what they worshipped" but we do in Ashan and your point boils down to "i dislike it so it's forced and it sucks even if that's just what happened irl lol"
"non-sensical explanations" funny comment about a fantasy game. But if you consider drinking the blood/venom of a time/destiny/space goddess making you lose years and look younger completely non-sensical it's not Ubi's fault. By your logic the kreegans should be as non-sensical
"Omg i dislike dark elves so they'r cliche and overdone, evil magicians are much much much more original right Saruman?"
H4 made a mess of an inferno/necro town if that's what you mean by chaos lol
The only game that literally plagied stuff was H3 (the gnoll, the beholder and the gorgon). Deal with it.
Nature towns had one elf unit and a lot of elven heroes. Even if there was a human among them: Ignatius. But we are speaking about creatures.
Worshiping, in my opinion, shouldn't be forced this much as in Ashan. The best way is what was done with Chronicles: the Ancestors sent Tarnum to do missions to repent for his crimes and save the world. There was nothing beyond that, no forced worship (it was just mentioned in one of the campaigns, where a wizard heard Tarnum asking about the Ancestors). Ashan? Rarely is there a faction that does not mention any of dragon gods.
Fantasy game? Good. But I don't want any "overused themes". Besides, I don't want to hear about vampires that don't age, it is even copied from one of those vampire movies/series. And no, I do not approve that Lyla, who is said to be "the oldest vampire in Ashan", looks like a hooker, who is over hundred years old.
"The only game that literally plagied stuff was H3 (the gnoll, the beholder and the gorgon). Deal with it." Pff. I don't deal with stuff that does not need to be dealt with. Again, how many games, at that time, used similar concepts? Hmmm?
But yes, you being a hardcore Ashan fan, are just blind. You just claim NWC as the worst enemy, while, using your own argument, Ubisoft is also doing these things, much more and often. And do not bother doing anything about it, hence why the gremlins, due to copyright, were replaced by cabirs. Now, don't tell me I am wrong at this, because it is a fact that cannot be denied.
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted June 13, 2015 11:25 PM |
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Kimarous said:
Aside from the two-headed Orthus "Cerberus" and the organic buildings, I'm rather fond of H6's Inferno, at least with regards to design.
I actually had necropolis in mind...
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted June 13, 2015 11:31 PM |
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Edited by verriker at 23:32, 13 Jun 2015.
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kiryu133 said:
What they worshipped was never important or even told explicitly in the heroes games (Unless i'm wrong?). We don't know what they worship or if it even exist. Neither do they.
here are the basics of religion in Antagarich lol
"The origins of Necromancy can be traced back to the time of the Silence, though not as directly as you might imagine. The art of Necromancy is a spin-off, really, of Alchemy, which in itself is a spin-off of Wizardry, which is a spin-off of, of all things, Religion.
Now let me explain. Not to sound cliche, but "in the beginning," there was Religion. The basic principle behind Erathian Religion is that if you properly follow all the rituals, that which you ask for shall be granted. This belief holds true even today. But centuries ago, those who dabbled in the mystical arts changed the basic precepts of Religion. Living high in the southern mountains, they became the first Wizards, using rituals of magic not to ask for reward, but to create it themselves.
Sure enough, there were some Wizards who were not content to be Conjurers. Rather than create something from nothing, they changed the practiced rituals in an effort to change their environment - they attempted to animate the inanimate. Now comprised more of science than of magic, the art of Alchemy was born.
Still, there were a few who took this "new religion" one step further. Rather than give life to inanimate objects, the goal of this new group was to re-animate previously living creatures. By blending the magic of conjuring with the science of alchemy, the Necromancers sought the complete and total resurrection of the dead. However, it quickly became apparent that in order to restore life in this fashion that life must be taken from somewhere else.
Such a practice was so blasphemous (even to the Wizards and Alchemists) that the Necromancers' cult was exiled from the nation of Bracada (the southern mountains I mentioned earlier). Wandering the continent, the cult eventually settled in the AvLee - a region teeming with life. As time passed, the Necromancers, trying to reach their goal of a perfect resurrection, slowly drained all the life around them."
Genyaarikado said:
The only game that literally plagied stuff was H3 (the gnoll, the beholder and the gorgon). Deal with it.
actually, the only game that literally "plagied" stuff was H5, deal with it lol
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted June 13, 2015 11:33 PM |
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Genyaarikado said:
The only game that literally plagied stuff was H3 (the gnoll, the beholder and the gorgon). Deal with it.
here's d'n'd beholder, does it look like heroes 3 beholder to you?
Dude seriously? Now what, you only got 2 creatures copied from dnd, when in heroes 6 there are much more
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 13, 2015 11:36 PM |
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Not only that, but H3 beholder/evil eye also has stalks to keep it high up on the ground and does not fly. H4 flies, but still has stalks.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 13, 2015 11:42 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 23:44, 13 Jun 2015.
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Kimarous said:
Care to extrapolate? Were do you see the dissonance between the concept and the execution? How do you think it could have been handled better?
Demon and undead mixing could have been done better from a gameplay perspective. As a concept of "death" and a mixing of demons/undead infernopolis is pretty fantastic and i doubt you could improve it (try). However the primary issue is that it's made up of two different towns. One town for the price of two if you will which really sours the whole thing.
Datapack said:
Aside from the two-headed Orthus "Cerberus" and the organic buildings, I'm rather fond of H6's Inferno, at least with regards to design.
I mostly agree with this. cool designs, shame they aren't aliens 
Genyaarikado said:
"H5 had..." they know many people didnt like the sylvan/dungeon towns having too much elves and they lowered the number to two. The Nature towns were elven towns tho. Ontop of that they literally said that pretty much retconned the aesthetics of that game and you keep bringing it up.
missed point nr.1
They force us into an elven town that is elven only. That the lineup consisted mostly of elves is a problem but not this problem.
Genyaarikado said:
"We didnt know what they worshipped" but we do in Ashan and your point boils down to "i dislike it so it's forced and it sucks even if that's just what happened irl lol"
Missed point nr.2
The church of light takes precedent in every single haven design (H6 haven is a joke because of this) and it's teachings are facts in the world. That's uninteresting since it doesn't allow for interpretation: there is only one truth. Dragon Age does this a lot better as well: there are gods and several pantheons as well as magic and snow but never is the truth revealed. We no the people actually know what the "correct" faith is which allows for speculation and varying interpretations. Ashan (and especially haven) does not.
Genyaarikado said:
"non-sensical explanations" funny comment about a fantasy game. But if you consider drinking the blood/venom of a time/destiny/space goddess making you lose years and look younger completely non-sensical it's not Ubi's fault. By your logic the kreegans should be as non-sensical
Missed point nr.3
What does "it's fantasy" have to do with anything? It doesn't excuse jack snow.
Genyaarikado said:
"Omg i dislike dark elves so they'r cliche and overdone, evil magicians are much much much more original right Saruman?"
Missed point nr.4
The only dark elves I've seen so far that aren't a cliché ridden, attention desperate snowfest are the ones in "heroine's quest" and that's because they (finally) go full norse myth on the snows rather than corrupt elves.
Genyaarikado said:
H4 made a mess of an inferno/necro town if that's what you mean by chaos lol
Missed point nr.5
No, the actual H4 "chaos" town.
Genyaarikado said:
The only game that literally plagied stuff was H3 (the gnoll, the beholder and the gorgon).
no.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Genyaarikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 12:21 AM |
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@energyz
"nature had even a human" awesome, it's an elven town nonetheless, y'know, since the Elwin and Shafeera state it's the elven kingdom
"I dont want any overused themes" go play another series then, Heroes is "pop culture fantasy sink: the game" lol
"you see NWC as the enemy" omfg the idiocy.
@verriker @biggestfan the beholder, the gnoll and the gorgon were created by D&D. if that does not constitute plagiarism then idk what it does lol
@SJW
1-It was in H4. Regardless it will probably have humans as well if H6 is any indication. No one is forcing you anything, you arent being tortured to play with Sylvan
2-"There is only one truth" yes it is. That didnt stop the Biara's heaven of using holy light or the creation of Necromancy. Once again something that differs from your tastes =/= uninteresting.
3- I'm not sure what you mean by the Necro explanations being non sensical then. They make perfect sense in the context of the universe they're in. Once again, you couldnt understand context even if your life depending on it (leopard bikini)
4- Awesome. The alternative you want has the same issues.
5- Ok...but Ashan relates chaos with inferno not with Dungeon so i dont see the point you're trying to make lol.
6- You can say no all you want but those creatures were invented them lol
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted June 14, 2015 12:25 AM |
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Guess what, Heroes 6 copied the drider from DnD.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted June 14, 2015 12:26 AM |
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Also the gorgon was invented by the greeks not DnD.
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 12:32 AM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Guess what, Heroes 6 copied the drider from DnD.
And D&D got that from greek mythology.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted June 14, 2015 12:35 AM |
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Nah, that's Arachne, she had been transformed into a regular spider, not a spider-woman
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Genyaarikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 12:41 AM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Guess what, Heroes 6 copied the drider from DnD.
Indeed.
Gryphs said:
Also the gorgon was invented by the greeks not DnD.
the gorgon as in magical beast that resembles a bull, covered in dusky metallic scales. was invented by DnD. The gorgon as in Medusa, Stheno and Euryale were of made the greeks of course
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 14, 2015 12:42 AM |
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Genyaarikado said:
"nature had even a human" awesome, it's an elven town nonetheless, y'know, since the Elwin and Shafeera state it's the elven kingdom
So what if it is? You claim that we don't want to see too many elves and we did not... until Ashan. Why do people want blade dancers rather than unicorns is beyond me...
Genyaarikado said:
"I dont want any overused themes" go play another series then, Heroes is "pop culture fantasy sink: the game" lol
But that's YOUR claim. You and your claim can go somewhere else, because I refuse to believe in that because I know that is not true. Even so, why are you here, even, if you are claiming this? Come on, I dare you to answer this.
Genyaarikado said:
"you see NWC as the enemy" omfg the idiocy.
You see it as idiocy, I see it as the truth. You claim they rip-off more stuff than Ubi and, despite some facts your ignorance does not allow you to acknowledge, are too stubborn. You have your beliefs, I have mine. Unlike you, however, I am not too stubborn to confess some people's points are valid and true.
But, that's what is to be expected from someone that has negative quality points.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted June 14, 2015 12:46 AM |
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Quote:
the gorgon as in magical beast that resembles a bull, covered in dusky metallic scales. was invented by DnD. The gorgon as in Medusa, Stheno and Euryale were of made the greeks of course
Actually there exist a copper-scaled bull in Greek mythology, but it's called Catoplebas
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Genyaarikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 12:58 AM |
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They werent in the lineup, but they were there nonetheless. They lowered the number to 3 and for all we know the druid in H1-2 could have always been an elf (idg why it being an elf rather than a human would bother you so much). Were the pegasi riders humans or elves? i never knew
"Why do people want blade dancers rather than unicorns is beyond me..." God forbid people have different tastes
"it's your claim" oh dear
"i see it as the truth" No dear. I dont see NWC as the enemy at all, if i had hated them i wouldnt be here. My first heroes games where 3 and 4, i was like 10. That doesnt mean i'm oblivious to their faults. I'm not oblivious to the faults of H5 and on neither, but wanting to go back to the old universe because the new one ripped off creatures is a logical fallacy at best because the old one did it as well.
In less words what i mean is: I dont disagree with you wanting the old universe back itself, since i enjoyed it too. I disagree with the points you bring up as reasons to do it so, though.
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@biggestfan i know, but the creature in H3 is the gorgon, not catoblepas lol.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted June 14, 2015 01:06 AM |
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What the hell is happening here?
Complaining that Ashan Demons are not Aliens (ALIENS!) compared to Kreegans, while they're effectively the same aliens to Ashan as Kreegans are to Enroth?
"It's a fantasy" as a way of approving nonsense?!
Gorgons of H3 (those reptilian bulls, not the Sisters) were taken from Greek mythology?
H6 copied driders? I'll just kindly remind that spider-women come from mythology and it doesn't take lvl 2 mental gymnastics to create a spider-woman for faction infested with those freakin' spiders! (This goes for those who think that spider-woman is very original.)
Catoblepas coming from Greek mythology? Yeah sure it's spelled in Greek, but was from Ethiopia and described by Romans... ultimately was used by D&D and (later) Castlevania...
To quote lol-a-lot (a rare time when I full-heartedly agree):
Verriker said:
everyone is just throwing around fallacies and exposing their lack of knowledge now.
I'm missing the days when the discussions were held between Stevie, WO, Avonu, DJ, even Galaad! Never thought I'd become nostalgic of Stevie... I miss constructive arguments!
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted June 14, 2015 01:14 AM |
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Sandro400 said:
To quote lol-a-lot (a rare time when I full-heartedly agree):
hey, who are you calling lol-a-lot lol
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