|
| Thread: Medusa Vs. Matriarch |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
posted November 07, 2014 11:16 PM |
|
Edited by Galaad at 23:18, 07 Nov 2014.
|
|
jhb
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 01:12 AM |
|
Edited by jhb at 01:22, 08 Nov 2014.
|
Storm-Giant said:
Where's the "Why not both?" option? 
I think the option could be "both in one". 
As I saw some people suggesting. For Dungeon, maybe it was better if medusa was just medusa, not naga.
Or maybe Medusa could be mixed with shadow witch. A 2 forms unit like the h6 Fate Spinner or maybe a mixed "medusa witch".
Talking about multiform units, one that I think would fit Dungeon very well would be a Shapeshifter. It could be a multirole unit, but I guess it would be hard to balance.
|
|
Shambell
Hired Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 01:23 AM |
|
Edited by Shambell at 01:26, 08 Nov 2014.
|
jhb said:
Storm-Giant said:
Or maybe Medusa could be mixed with shadow witch. A 2 forms unit like the h6 Fate Spinner or maybe a mixed "medusa witch".
The upgraded form seems to be a Medusa Sorceress so a sort of witch is not out of question...
Edit:
jhb said:
As I saw some people suggesting. For Dungeon, maybe it was better if medusa was just medusa, not naga.
For me, it's the reverse.
The creature would fit better inside the Dungeon if it was not called Medusa, but being a Naga is not a problem.
|
|
jhb
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 02:06 AM |
|
Edited by jhb at 02:15, 08 Nov 2014.
|
@Shambell
When I said "not naga", I was thinking about something like an improved H4 Medusa, or maybe a H4 Medusa mixed with H5 shadow witch.
Edit: But I guess a naga style medusa is more well known among people.
Edit2: naga medusa also would feel more beastly, probably. So I guess people would prefer the way it is now.
|
|
Shambell
Hired Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 02:16 AM |
|
Edited by Shambell at 02:50, 08 Nov 2014.
|
Yes, it could work of course.
But even a Naga could have a good justification.
If we look closely, you have in fact 2 sorts of factions.
The "reclusive" factions who doesn't really accept strangers (Fortress, Sylvan, Haven by period) and factions able to accept people of different origins (Academy, Necropolis, Stronghold but also Dungeon).
Of course, these people need to adapt to their new home.
Edit: My problem is how they try to shoehorn the term Medusa without an afterthought.
Some mad priestess is not equivalent to a full population.
If they wrote something like:
"At first Medusa was the term used to designate the Naga priestess exiled from the Lotus Empire due to the Madness of the Deep.
But, in fact and as the time passed, the Naga society broadened this signification to designate all the renegade element going against the order of the Eternal Empress, the goal being to revile them and reject them.
So was the rebel faction of Daimyo Oshiro the Accursed.
Pursued by the Empire after a failed coup and branded with this name, they took shelter underground and finally became part of the Dark Elf kingdom.
There, they kept this designation in memory of all their past struggles and as a symbol of their expected revenge against the Empress."
|
|
GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 11:06 AM |
|
|
|
I think that the implication is that, under the dark elves rulership worshipping The Wrecker was no longer an heresy and the cult became a legal thing for those dungeon aligned naga, opening temples/schools and stuff like that.
|
|
Buki
Hired Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 12:27 PM |
|
|
|
Hey this is great idea to mix up naga + matriarch so it will look like a humanoid woman with snakes on head. I wish they make it look like that !
|
|
Doomhammer
Known Hero
Smasher of pasties
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 12:40 PM |
|
|
|
Medusa all the way. Never liked matriarchs.
|
|
Shambell
Hired Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 06:58 PM |
|
Edited by Shambell at 19:13, 08 Nov 2014.
|
GenyaArikado said:
I think that the implication is that, under the dark elves rulership worshipping The Wrecker was no longer an heresy and the cult became a legal thing for those dungeon aligned naga, opening temples/schools and stuff like that.
The fact that they modified their past definition of the Medusa to add "but some of them also turn to Malassa" makes me say that no, you'll have no cult of the Wrecker but only Nagas converted and following Malassa.
Edit: More, Oshiroo's people were not followers of the Wrecker at all but only renegade.
I see a difference between some people running amok and so being exiled as they are a danger and other people exiled because they played the rules of the Naga society to the end and lost (they could have converted later).
|
|
Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 07:30 PM |
|
|
Shambell said:
GenyaArikado said:
I think that the implication is that, under the dark elves rulership worshipping The Wrecker was no longer an heresy and the cult became a legal thing for those dungeon aligned naga, opening temples/schools and stuff like that.
The fact that they modified their past definition of the Medusa to add "but some of them also turn to Malassa" makes me say that no, you'll have no cult of the Wrecker but only Nagas converted and following Malassa.
Edit: More, Oshiroo's people were not followers of the Wrecker at all but only renegade.
I see a difference between some people running amok and so being exiled as they are a danger and other people exiled because they played the rules of the Naga society to the end and lost (they could have converted later).
The exact quote that came from the page is:
Offical Denizens of Ygg-Chall Page said:
The Dragon Gods have many faces, not all of them nice. Naga Priestesses who succumb to the madness of the depths are exiled from the Lotus Empire, and become known as Medusae. Most Medusae worship the Wrecker, the destructive aspect of the Dragon Goddess of Water, but some of them also turn to Malassa. After all, what lies in the deepest abysses of the ocean if not Darkness?
During their quest to find a way to bring back the Faceless Library from Sheogh and make it the centre of their new realm, the Dark Elves encountered a faction of renegade Nagas, led by Daimyo Oshiro the Accursed. These Nagas, involved in a failed coup against the Eternal Empress, had been literally forced to go underground. After being conquered, Oshiro’s people became part of the Dark Elf kingdom.
Extreme emphasis mine. I'm pretty sure the Wrecker cult is alive and well. The second part can explain how instead of just having Naga women in Dungeon, there are also naga men, so that the Medusa can keep up their numbers. The women just have a noticeable spot on the battlefield.
Galaad said:
NACHOOOO said:
I don't dislike the Medusa, I just prefer the matriarch. She shoots balls of lightning what's not to like?
She doesn't get to have snakes for hair neither turning you into stone while staring at you.
If only there was a unit that has all of the official abilities of the Medusa while also shooting lightning- oh wait:
|
|
blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 07:50 PM |
|
|
Medusa saboteur/shooter + witch spellcaster. I wouldn't mind both in the faction. I conceptually like witches far more than blood furies, just as long as the H7 witch doesn't have alzheimers and forgets to put clothes on in the morning. Black robes with purple/red trimming and an enchanted scourge and some high-end spells would be awesome.
The medusa could be a corrupted naga along with having her powers enhanced through the dark elves eldritch magic (justifying her station as an elite creature)
If there is a Sanctuary in an H7 expansion (which I would want) you could easily just phase out the coral priestesses with a different unit, if it feels too redundant to have two creatures cut from the same cloth.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 08:16 PM |
|
|
blizzardboy said:
Medusa saboteur/shooter + witch spellcaster. I wouldn't mind both in the faction. I conceptually like witches far more than blood furies, just as long as the H7 witch doesn't have alzheimers and forgets to put clothes on in the morning. Black robes with purple/red trimming and an enchanted scourge and some high-end spells would be awesome.
The medusa could be a corrupted naga along with having her powers enhanced through the dark elves eldritch magic (justifying her station as an elite creature)
If there is a Sanctuary in an H7 expansion (which I would want) you could easily just phase out the coral priestesses with a different unit, if it feels too redundant to have two creatures cut from the same cloth.
Although I would like Sanctuary, I actually really liked the Priestess. Considering the only real similarity between them and Medusas is snakes for hair, a passive "slow", and shooting, I feel the Priestess could be modified to be the spell caster of Sanctuary, but just not have snake hair. Or do. Either way.
No matter how it goes does, Matriarch isn't a unit. Having a "Matriarch" kinda unit in Sanctuary wouldn't be all that bad.
|
|
Shambell
Hired Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 08:19 PM |
|
Edited by Shambell at 20:33, 08 Nov 2014.
|
Protolisk said:
Extreme emphasis mine. I'm pretty sure the Wrecker cult is alive and well.
Of course, I've never said the opposite.
But Wrecker = Shalassa.
I've only said that they purposely added the mention of Malassa as a possible deity for the Medusae... thing never said before.
Why ? Because they need to justify Nagas following Malassa as inside Dungeon.
The second part link to the Shade of Darkness campaign, where Raelag shelters Oshiro's people from the Lotus Empire wrath.
Edit:
blizzardboy said:
The medusa could be a corrupted naga along with having her powers enhanced through the dark elves eldritch magic (justifying her station as an elite creature)
It's exactly what I think.
|
|
Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 08:31 PM |
|
|
Shambell said:
Protolisk said:
Extreme emphasis mine. I'm pretty sure the Wrecker cult is alive and well.
Of course, I've never said the opposite.
Yes you did, silly. 
Shambell said:
The fact that they modified their past definition of the Medusa to add "but some of them also turn to Malassa" makes me say that no, you'll have no cult of the Wrecker but only Nagas converted and following Malassa.
Shambell said:
But Wrecker = Shalassa.
I've only said that they purposely added the mention of Malassa as a possible deity for the Medusae... thing never said before.
Why ? Because they need to justify Nagas following Malassa as inside Dungeon.
The second part link to the Shade of Darkness campaign, where Raelag shelters Oshiro's people from the Lotus Empire wrath.
I feel like Ubi is sort of understanding that having "this faction is all Malassa, no one inside can be different, and no one outside can feel the same. This faction is all Elrath, no one inside can be different, no one outside can feel the same. This faction is all Shalassa...etc" was writing them into a corner, and thus they have invented a way to write them out of it. The mere fact that" Holy crap! People of Malassa are taking in Shalassa followers? And not outright hating them? They are working together?" is justification enough. In addition, it could be seen as a sign of progress of Ubi's story-telling.
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 08:44 PM |
|
|
Something like this, with colour of course. ^^
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
|
|
GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 08:46 PM |
|
|
Shambell said:
GenyaArikado said:
I think that the implication is that, under the dark elves rulership worshipping The Wrecker was no longer an heresy and the cult became a legal thing for those dungeon aligned naga, opening temples/schools and stuff like that.
The fact that they modified their past definition of the Medusa to add "but some of them also turn to Malassa" makes me say that no, you'll have no cult of the Wrecker but only Nagas converted and following Malassa.
Edit: More, Oshiroo's people were not followers of the Wrecker at all but only renegade.
I see a difference between some people running amok and so being exiled as they are a danger and other people exiled because they played the rules of the Naga society to the end and lost (they could have converted later).
Having a mini naga kindom might without the "No wrecker worship" thing might appeal the naga exilees like the cult and the medusae. Once that they get there given said naga mini kingdom is a vassal of Malassa worshipers it isnt that far fetched to think that some of said medusae go to study Malassa. They arent retconning anything, just adding more.
|
|
Shambell
Hired Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 08:50 PM |
|
Edited by Shambell at 21:01, 08 Nov 2014.
|
Protolisk said:
Shambell said:
Protolisk said:
Extreme emphasis mine. I'm pretty sure the Wrecker cult is alive and well.
Of course, I've never said the opposite.
Yes you did, silly.
I said and I insist on this point that, inside Dungeon, what we will have is not the cult of the Wrecker.
This one is a group of loose cannon really not able to work inside a given faction.
But it can still exist as a neutral group, alive and well.
Protolisk said:
The mere fact that" Holy crap! People of Malassa are taking in Shalassa followers? And not outright hating them? They are working together?" is justification enough. In addition, it could be seen as a sign of progress of Ubi's story-telling.
They took them 200 yeas ago.
Why, being underground in continuous contact with faceless and DE, do you think they didn't convert (at least partially) to Malassa ?
Edit:
GenyaArikado said:
They arent retconning anything, just adding more.
I've never spoken of retcon.
I've said that if they added it, it's to use it.
|
|
Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 09:04 PM |
|
|
|
I think that Medusas in Heroes VII will become a marriage of Medusa from pre-V games and Matriarchs from Heroes V. They fit this role quite good. This is also the reason why I came back to Faces.
|
|
GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 09:17 PM |
|
|
Shambell said:
GenyaArikado said:
They arent retconning anything, just adding more.
I've never spoken of retcon.
I've said that if they added it, it's to use it.
your point then?
|
|
Shambell
Hired Hero
|
|
posted November 08, 2014 09:20 PM |
|
|
| |
|
|
